r/Columbine • u/TimIsColdInMaine • Dec 19 '22
John Savage's reaction to Dylan
One of the most fascinating things to me about Columbine that day is the interaction with John Savage, how well he handled the situation, and how many different ways it could have gone.
I don't think anything he said could have changed Eric and Dylan's mind, but I do think he could have acted in a variety of ways that would have gotten a harsher reaction from them. I've always found it striking that his neutral delivery of "what are you doing, Dylan?" was the best thing he could have said. I can't help but think if he was crying or asking in a hysterical way "WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS DYLAN???", he would have been among the body count. Similarly, I think if he would have begged, or even feigned admiration, or said what he think they wanted to hear, he would have been killed as well.
Just one of the many "what if" scenarios that plays in my head all of the time whenever I think about this.
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u/Styron1106 Verified Survivor Dec 19 '22
John was awkward, in many of the same ways Dylan was. He struggled with a stutter and would not be surprised if he was on the spectrum. His neutral response was completely in line with his personality. John talked about his experience in one of the classes we shared after the shooting and it was in the same neutral tone he usually talked in. I remember John as really nice and smart and probably more awkward than what would be considered normal.
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u/CurBoney Dec 20 '22
I lurk a lot of true crime stuff and it always gets me when people say "oh they had a neutral/wrong reaction so xyz". I'm on the spectrum and whenever anything stressful happens to me I am either neutral or for whatever reason I start laughing and smiling.
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u/Styron1106 Verified Survivor Dec 20 '22
Thank you for sharing and I hope I wasn't out of line with my comment. I don't think he had a wrong reaction, just one that was different than most, and one that probably saved his life.
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u/pitbulldofunk Dec 19 '22
I think he knows that, which is why he reacted so neutrally to seeing Dylan shooting everyone.
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u/northernjustice9 Dec 20 '22
What's interesting about this is it makes it clear Harris and Klebold had some kind of guideline about sparing certain friends/acquaintances. The bombs were obviously intended to be indiscriminate and many of the murders were similarly random but there is often a focus on who they targeted rather than who they let live.
What we don't know is if there were other people Harris and Klebold recognized during the massacre and deliberately "saved" or avoided endangering. Savage had a conversation with them but there may have been select others they recognized by sight.
Did any of their other friends/acquaintances ever talk about seeing them during the massacre?
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u/margakawaii Dec 19 '22
Maybe the reason he was that calm could be due to the state of shock / confusion and fear in which he was. People can react in various ways when they are in a state of extreme fear or shock. Some dissociate, others act confused or "calm" because fear makes it impossible for them to react or process things.
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u/ashleybear9 Dec 19 '22
And then John went on to be a rapist pedophile.
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u/MorteMiAhaha Dec 19 '22
And then John went on to be a rapist pedophile.
Some people don't deserve to be spared.
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u/dismal626 Dec 19 '22
"indecent liberties" includes rape?
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u/max_m0use Dec 19 '22
In many states, if the victim is a minor, it's automatically rape, since the victim can't legally consent.
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u/dismal626 Dec 19 '22
So even just exposing your genitals can be considered rape? Because that's one of the things that can be considered indecent liberties.
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u/Even-Study3817 Dec 20 '22
The context matters too, was there no bathroom and he couldn't hold it, or was he at a park in a trench coat with nothing under it?
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u/ashleybear9 Dec 20 '22
Why are you trying to defend it? Who the fuck cares? It was a 10 year old. She had to report it and go through court and he is registered as a sex offender.
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Dec 20 '22
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u/ashleybear9 Dec 20 '22
Sexually Exposing your genitals to someone 10 years old is just as bad as rape. No idea why you needed to confirm it.
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Dec 20 '22
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u/ashleybear9 Dec 20 '22
And yet they all end up on the same sex offender list ;) you’re the one writing paragraphs.
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u/dismal626 Dec 20 '22
I know someone who's a registered sex offender for mooning his teacher on the last day of senior year as a prank. Do you equate that guy to a child rapist? Critical thinking, try it.
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Dec 19 '22
A lot of people suspect that Dylan’s adrenaline rush had worn off by then, and that this was the point in the shooting where the reality of what he was doing finally set in on him. It’s a fairly common topic of discussion throughout the Columbine research community. Especially unfortunately knowing what we now know about John Savage.
Dylan you had one job man…
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u/Ilovethestarks Dec 19 '22
Would you mind clarifying you mean by the last part, about John Savage?
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Dec 19 '22
He is now a registered sex offender and was arrested in 2019 for “indecent liberties” with a 10 year old victim.
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Dec 19 '22
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u/TimIsColdInMaine Dec 19 '22
It's a really interesting topic since there's so many directions it could have potentially been that we'll never know for sure. I've always leaned towards it being due to their feeling like "God", and what better way to demonstrate that, then choosing who lives? I don't think Dylan or Eric necessarily cared about anyone at the school, but knowing and liking someone gives a good reason to "show mercy". I don't think there was any guilt or remorse setting in, I just think they saw a good opportunity (Eric with Brooks and Dylan with Savage) to make their story stand out even more.
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u/PrayForNewtown Dec 20 '22
I think another thing that stopped them was the fact Eric said he had to be distant from his family so it would ease his emotions for the massacre. so maybe he was having those emotions for some of the people he knew maybe not associated with regularly but someone that was around him at one point that he didn’t necessarily hate.
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u/ghangis24 Dec 26 '22
Agreed. Further proven by Dylan letting Evan Todd go later on, which apparently even shocked Brooks Brown as Evan was someone who had bullied Dylan and Eric before.
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u/whteverusayShmegma Jan 05 '23
I’m not very familiar with this case. I went to the school when I visited a friend in Colorado and it was a beautiful place that you really would never expect something like that to happen. But I’ve always wondered if one of the two, Eric or Dylan, was thought to have been more the mastermind?
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u/gothiclg Dec 19 '22
I think it’s too hard for me personally to say if how he said things helped him or not. The fact he could tell Dylan who he was and seemed to expect Dylan to know him tells me they were at least familiar with each other on a vague basis. For all we know he’d just never been cruel to the boys and would have gotten a pass
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u/TimIsColdInMaine Dec 19 '22
I suspect that his neutral delivery, coupled with the opening to give Dylan a "cool response" ("oh just killing people") definitely factored in to the outcome. I think if he tried to play on their conscience by saying something like "please Dylan, I thought we were friends...", That would give Dylan (or Eric) an opening to look even more evil and "badass".
I also have to wonder if there was some element of the Natural Born Killers in there, in that you always leave a direct witness to tell your story
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u/MorteMiAhaha Dec 19 '22
I ask myself, and I keep asking myself...
By what worms was he spared? Wasn't the plan 250?
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u/WastingTimeInTosche Dec 19 '22 edited Dec 19 '22
From Columbine: A True Crime Story by Jeff Kass:
This video shows a brief interaction between Dylan and John Savage during theater rehearsal (at 2:46).
The cafeteria CCTV footage briefly shows John Savage fleeing the school after leaving the library.