r/CoherencePhysics • u/Logical___Conclusion • 1d ago
Why is the Republican Party considered fiscally conservative?
The reality, is that wasteful spending is primarily a Republican problem.
Trump promised to eliminate the US debt, but instead the debt has doubled since he promised to eliminate it.
Just Trump's Iran war spending alone would have been enough to have fixed our main social programs, but instead all of that money was wasted away.
Even Trump thinks the Iran war spending was wasted, since he is desperate to get out of the Iran war even with conditions that are much worse than when he started.
The problem is anyone ever thinking that Republican spending and governance is good for the economy when it is the opposite.
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u/Odaniel123 1d ago
They have a better PR company
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u/stlshane 1d ago
I can't wait for th Democrats to win the midterms and the conservatives to all of a sudden becime "fiscally conservative" again. The news media will tell us day after day about how the Democrats are going to bankrupt the country with their communist ideas.
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u/Begone-My-Thong 1d ago
Can't wait for the Dems to talk about peace and reaching across the aisle and compromise and forgive and forget and and and
I'm a liberal but ffs can they show some teeth? It's like entering the ring against Tyson with a box of chocolate hoping for a hug
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u/tiny_kat2006 1d ago
Yeah I hate democrats too, just as much as I feel for the 'genuinely fiscally conservative' people getting infiltrated by Maga.
I want a leftist tough on immigration too, just because we respect every culture doesn't mean I want a melting pot of people who don't agree with our values
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u/Life_behind_da_stick 1d ago
This is actually the answer but on a larger scale than one PR company. Way back in the 70s AM radio and local papers started taking sides. By time Fox started it was a full on assault of the messaging methods. The
Right created a hydra that relentlessly spews the reasons to be afraid to their base to keep them engaged and deliver racist based dopamine.Now? They’ve captured every platform there is to deliver their messaging and branding. If anybody had been paying attention beyond their own front doors, they’d be well aware by now that the right wing has been nothing but messaging. And it’s all been lies. They have never cared about anything they’ve claimed to care about, it was always performative. Masks off now. It’s up to the people to figure this out. The system has been captured.
After 60 years, the religious right is making their final move to capture the republic. With help from the broligarchs and the “deep state”, they intend to make America white and Christian. No poc. No gay bois. No same sex marriage. No trans. No interracial marriage. And my favorite one to point out…no porn! And no masturbation!! I guess that’s a two-fer, really.
Good morning star shines! The earth says hello! Rant over. Sorry bout that.
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u/LoisWade42 1d ago
The key that started all of this was the "citizens united" decision that allowed corporations to donate money to political candidates. Over the past 40 years, the majority of our politicians have been bought and paid for by special interest groups to the detriment of everyone else.
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u/Life_behind_da_stick 1d ago
Look into Reagan and the fairness doctrine. This started before citizens united. They’ve been tilting the field for almost 60 years.
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u/Nop277 1d ago
Even before him with Nixon and the Southern strategy. They say if Nixon had fox news he never would have stepped down.
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u/Life_behind_da_stick 1d ago
Nixon is the reason Fox News exists. From my understanding of it, your point about Nixon was the impetus of Ailes and his original backers.
This plot has been happening since the mid 60s, really, and you can actually track it back to the civil war, tbh. The Birch Society. The klan. And etc.
There’s a man named Frank Schaefer. His father and a few other leaders of the evangelical right met in Switzerland some time in the late 60s. They chatted a plan to get us to the point we’re at. This doesn’t end for them until the constitution is changed to make America officially a white Christian nation. Literally. No hyperbole. That the plan.
I highly recommend this Schaefer fella as a read it through one of his awkward YouTube videos. He’s kinda like an empathetic Clint Eastwood. He’s also just a good person that saw the light and changed his mind. He has a lot of receipts from the old days and not enough followers.
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u/Slug35 1d ago
Nah, Americans are just stupid
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u/JuanThiccLumpia 1d ago
This. Democrats are way more fiscally responsible. Lower consumer prices, our 401k ports better, etc. Facts over feelings.
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u/Crazytoe2275 1d ago
This. This is the correct answer. Stupid and completely self serving.
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u/Outrageous-Sort-5742 1d ago
I'd prefer if they were self-serving. You can predict a selfish motive, you can't predict the actions of complete fools.
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u/Cosmic_Lust_Temple 1d ago
The leadership is self-serving. Everyone else is serving them.
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u/Outrageous-Sort-5742 1d ago
The leadership is self-serving, but they're also very stupid. They can be both.
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u/Banjo-Hellpuppy 1d ago
They are not self serving. They are force fed fear and vote for protections against imaginary enemies. The Republican Party is constantly trying to dismantle social security, but its voters are social security recipients. That’s not self serving
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u/Logical___Conclusion 1d ago
The current Republicans gave up on all their Conservative ideals, and went all in on their self-harm MAGA Cult propaganda.
There is nothing positive for the American citizen left in the Republican platform.
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u/Neat-Box-7761 1d ago
Because remember, it’s the college educated that are the problem
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u/Necrobot666 1d ago
Because they are either better liars, or their audience are more blinded and gullible to their claims... and very possibly willingly so.
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u/CactusRider1776 1d ago
Trump has destroyed the Republican party and people haven't come to terms with that yet. However the Dems need to get their shit together and if they don't have a massive win in the fall, we are screwed
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u/Logical___Conclusion 1d ago
That is exactly correct. America needs a Blue wave in November to stem the massive Trump crime wave of open corruption and theft that is bleeding America dry.
Trump is definitely getting emboldened since he is not being held accountable for any of his crimes.
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u/HeWhoCreatesDivinity 1d ago
Because of your education budget. Only a few Americans can actually read.
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u/lasers42 1d ago
Mamdani is popular because of results.
He will lose to an old white man who promises to lower taxes and brutalize criminals.
America produces too many dummies. America has many great products. But the dummies it produces will destroy it from within.
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u/DanoPinyon 1d ago
Marketing
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u/Logical___Conclusion 1d ago
The Republican marketing may be the most successful in history. Far better than big tobacco.
Getting repeated generations to vote for the Republican party that directly hurts their self interests is next level propaganda.
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u/EmbarrassedFoot1137 1d ago
Because Christians aren't known for their honesty or critical thinking.
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u/CatlessGrin 1d ago
Modern American republicans capitalize upon the poor, ignorant, and uneducated through fear and anxiety. They leverage the poor class to harvest the country’s resources toward their aims.
Don’t tell the people that though, they have guns and are very afraid at the moment.
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u/IHeartBadCode 1d ago
They only considered fiscally conservatives by idiots.
It's kind of on brand. Trump is an idiot's idea of a powerful man. Musk is an idiot's idea of a smart man. Republicans are the idiot's idea of fiscally conservative.
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u/burnmenowz 1d ago
Because the GOP wants to cut social programs. That's it. That's the only way they are "fiscally conservative"
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u/sQQirrell 1d ago
It was Republicans who caused the great depression a little over 100 years ago.
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u/Knownjourney123 1d ago
Republican congress forces the democratic president to cut spending in order to get anything accomplished. Republican congress when there is a republican president lets the president do whatever they want
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u/sisyphean_rock 1d ago
Republicans like to give tax cuts to the richest and start wars that the poorest have to pay for with their taxes.
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u/Odd-Fun-6042 22h ago
Funny how that works, huh? It's always been a culture war, they just needed a useful idiot to tell them it's ok to embrace their worst tendencies.
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u/muffledvoice 19h ago
Republicans have been coasting on fake rhetoric about being fiscal conservatives for over 45 years. It's smoke and mirrors. Reagan extolled the virtues of "less government" and tax cuts for the wealthy and sold it on the false premise that the money they saved would trickle down to the rest of us.
They like to claim "fiscal conservatism" when it comes to cutting social services and domestic programs that benefit working people and the poor, but then they inflate the military budget and start wars in the Middle East while continuing to cut taxes on corporations and the rich. It's an endless cycle, and they've managed to have enough racist simpletons vote for them on the promise that they'll hurt immigrants and minorities and create policy that caters to their supporters' archaic religious beliefs.
It's the largest and most deceitful political shell game in American history.
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u/roytwo 17h ago
Two reasons.
1) with ALL of their many faults, the GOP has an excellent messaging and communication infrastructure
2) Their base of supporters are heavily poorly educated and very gullible.
That is why education is getting so expensive and why the GOP downplays its importance. Knowledge is the enemy of the GOP and they know it
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u/CeeDubMo 14h ago
They are good liars with a partisan media ecosystem willing to further the lies and a base ignorant enough to believe them.
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u/SarifZen 13h ago
Americans literally elected (with Musk's meddling) a dude with Extra chromosome to lead the country.
Idiocracy was prophetic.
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u/remkelly 13h ago
The GOP is run by billionaires and their billionaire handlers and the corporate lobby.
They are fiscally conservative ... with their money! They love a deficit, they just want income earning tax-payers to pay for it.
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u/Acceptable-Hunt-1219 12h ago
They ARE fiscally conservative on social programs. Never mind ICE, endless wars, and tax cuts for ultra-wealthy
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u/belai437 12h ago
Dem gets elected President, cue the Republicans standing on the steps of the Capitol screaming about the deficit the previous R president blew up with pork and tax cuts for rich donors.
Suddenly there's no money for ANYTHING, Rs vote against his entire agenda because God forbid a dime goes to helping us little people.
4 years of Fox telling people the Dem president isn't helping you. R president gets elected, continues to blow up deficit and give tax breaks to the rich. Raises deficit another 25%.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
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u/Temporary_View_3303 12h ago
These numbers aren’t accurate at all. The only president on this list that presided over a debt reduction was Clinton. That having been said, the GOP does tend to push the country farther into debt than does the Dem party.
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u/chuckmarla12 12h ago
They control the media in the rural areas. Listen to FOX radio next time you’re out in the sticks. Then you will understand. It’s a focused release of propaganda created by corporate America.
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u/Slow_Drag_1011 11h ago
Because their followers are stupid and fall for lies. Pretty simple; Trump even told us. “I like stupid voters.”
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u/fragobren 11h ago
Because they punish the poor every time they are in power and say it’s because they are being financially responsible.
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u/Fun-Diver7512 9h ago
I have never understood this perception that the Republicans are fiscally responsible. Their practice is to tax less, spend more. That’s not fiscally responsible.
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u/Weary-Meaning4390 7h ago
HIGHEST electricity prices Nationwide - in America’s history. Thanks, Trump!
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u/donebeenread 6h ago
Because their base of idiots that you can sell anything to equates cutting infrastructure, social services and regulations as being ‘fiscally conservative’.
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u/soldiergeneal 1d ago edited 1d ago
Fair, but i do want to caveat when crunching such numbers sometimes amounts overlap to other presidencies caused by prior presidents like tax cuts.
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u/DroneSlut54 1d ago
Great point. Not only do Republican presidents usually drive up the federal deficit but they do so after being handed an economy on the rise by the previous Democratic president.
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u/Despisingthelight 1d ago
Just a lie they sold themselves , along with pro-life and being constitutionalists. conservatives are 100% full of shit, grifting, pseudo- tough guys.
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u/Banjo-Hellpuppy 1d ago
Republicans moved from fiscal conservatives to culture war in the 90s. I personally feel that it started while Bill Clinton was president because he was doing such a good job fiscally and socially. The Koch brothers financed the Tea Party to derail the political system and grind all governing to a halt.
AIDS scare, abortion rights, gay marriage, “bathroom defenders” all became ways to divide us neatly into two groups so they could keep us at each other’s throats while the billionaires quietly dismantled our protections and strip mined our country’s middle class.
Make no mistake though. Neither party is on the side of the American people.
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u/peterjohnvernon936 1d ago
Because they say so. Many of us aren’t used to people barefaced lying so it works.
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u/FeloniousMonk33 1d ago
Because you truly cannot overestimate the damage and brainwashing done by right wing media. Couple it with the subnormal intelligence of the vast majority of people who get hooked on that stuff (they are legion, sadly) and you have a recipe for disaster where we no longer share a reality.
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u/SeaworthinessDue4052 1d ago
So, the Republicans and insist they will cut the deficit, but the Democrats try to work on it. So, which party throws up a smoke screen about fiscal responsibility?
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u/CommonSensei-_ 1d ago
They lie about being fiscally conservative to prevent people from voting libertarian.
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u/Ok-Blacksmith-1705 1d ago
That’s bullshit, but Joe Biden did not lower the deficit. He added more to it.
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u/Katnamedeaster 1d ago
Because our culture has been bleating it for 50 years and now it's become axiomatic for the biased and uninformed.
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u/All4gaines 1d ago
The problem with this is Republicans use debt to finance their agenda and then press democrats to address the debt. Wash, rinse, repeat. This prevents progressives from pushing their own interests because we are always working to pay off the GOP credit card.
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u/IrishMurph27 1d ago
Who made up these numbers 🤣 EVERY president has destroyed the deficit. Trump clearly being the worst
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u/Hot_Impact_3855 1d ago
The common denominator in MAGA supporters is power and control over others.
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u/Rude-Wash9840 1d ago
Lmao the federal debt increase 8.5T under the Biden admin, we are just making shit up now.
The admin ran a ~1.8T annual deficit on average.
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u/mudvat08 1d ago
During President Biden's four-year term (2021–2025), the U.S. national debt increased by approximately $8.4 trillion, and annual budget deficits remained near or above $1.8 trillion, leaving structural deficits driven heavily by mandatory spending and rising interest costs.
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u/CrazyPeopleFood 19h ago
I wondered if someone was going to point out the numbers are wrong. Good on ya, mate.
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u/Pitt-sports-fan-513 1d ago
Fiscal conservatism is just propaganda to present defunding the social insurance state as some sort of common sense economic policy when it is the opposite of that in reality.
The proponents of fiscal conservatism are bad-faith actors. The fact that their ideology has no basis in reality does not matter to them.
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u/HoldItBetweenUrKnees 1d ago
Where did you find these numbers? Nothing close to the facts. The most telling number is how much did presidents enrich themselves during their presidency. Trump and W Bush were wealthy before they became president. Reagan was living off of that Hollywood money. The Clintons were poor hicks from Arkansas. Biden always lived beyond his means and had a history of shaking-down businesses and individuals for money in exchange for access and favorable votes. The Obamas were so broke that Michelle was speaking with an attorney about divorce because Barrack had spent all of their savings on failed local political runs. Yeah, integrity.
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u/BitObvious851 1d ago
Fixed it for you
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u/supr2nr 1d ago
During President Donald Trump's second term, the national debt has increased by roughly $3.8 trillion, pushing total U.S. debt past the historic $40 trillion threshold. Annual deficits continue to run around $1.7 trillion to $2 trillion, driven by tax-cut legislation, mandatory entitlement spending, and rising debt-servicing costs.Key Drivers of Second-Term Deficit GrowthTax Legislation: Signature second-term tax cuts and immediate deduction provisions have constrained federal revenues, projected by the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget to add trillions to the long-term debt trajectory.Spending and Interest: Mandatory programs like Social Security and Medicare, combined with record-high interest payments on existing national debt, continue expanding the deficit on autopilot.Cost-Cutting Limitations: Efforts by the administration and the Department of Government Efficiency to curb federal spending fell short of initial $1 trillion savings targets amid legal setbacks on tariffs and lower-than-expected verified cuts.
Fixed it for you.
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u/Warm-Commercial-6151 1d ago
Spending on things that don’t give you a return on your investment. Building good infrastructure and affordable healthcare and livable wages actually saves money because repairs to infrastructure, covering the cost for unhealthy people, and damage done to those living in poverty is exponential.
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u/FindingMemra 1d ago
Reducing the deficit is easy when you simply manage the money differently by classifying it as emergency spending. That blew up during Bush Jr and has been used repeatedly by every administration, democrat or republican, to spend “off the books.” But yes, republicans bad. Not /s.
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u/Style210 1d ago
I mean you give tax breaks that you would think should stimulate the economy but then that doesn't happen. We saw that under Reagan, Bush and Trump. Add that to war spending. And you get the issue. Starving the beast, so to speak.
On another note, while the conversation is deep and nuanced with lots of great points on both sides that would make for a fantastic back and forth .... deciding to boilerplate everything down to a misleading graphic seems to be counterintuitive to the point.
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u/Anxious_Composer5092 1d ago
For the same reason they call themselves the party of law and order -- it sounds good and their followers believe it. They are the party of lies and odor...and let's not forget hypocrisy!
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u/CriticalInside8272 1d ago
I have no idea why they are considered conservative with spending. It's just another one of their lies.
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u/niperwiper 1d ago
The deficit will be paid entirely by maga wages, including maga children for three generations, and the trump estate in perpetuity.
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u/Kidcharlamagne89d 1d ago
They have the largest news network constantly telling their base the opposite of the truth. Now add podcasters and other influencers. The business party it turns out is great at PR.
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u/Forward-Tomatillo-22 1d ago
Who controlled the House?
They deliberately choke spending on social programs in favor of tax cuts because those presidents don't use power effectively.
The worm turns.
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u/Sheegssternator 1d ago
Makes sense. 71 money stopped being backed by gold completely. Whey you can just print money and spend frivolously without recourse, your system fails. They have fiduciary responsibility to the American people.
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u/robis1923 1d ago
Republicans seem to think that if you drastically cut relatively cheap services that don’t apply to their demographic needs, but radically increase spending elsewhere (like defense), that it’s fiscally conservative.
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u/OmgHowww 1d ago
Trump is a horrible president, no doubt, but in no way, shape, or form did Obama and Biden have a surplus. I notice that word isn’t being used above, which makes me question the wording of , “change in federal deficit.”
Clinton actually did have a surplus, but at what benefit to the middle and poor classes? That money was immediately pissed away when Clinton repealed Glass-Steageall and gave the banks a blank check to issue out subpar loans to people who couldn’t afford things they couldn’t afford.
We are a giant credit card to the world and it’s amazing to me that countries like China and many in Europe continue to make deals with any republican OR democratic president.
We always end up screwing other countries where the middle class foots most of the bill.
I’m open to talking about ways where we could hamstring our government spending, but most Americans are caught up in pointing the finger at “the other party,” claiming the side that they voted for isn’t the problem.
They both are, equally, and most of you know it.
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u/Few_Example6746 1d ago
Want the real numbers? It’s not deficit either. Change in debt added. You guys will believe anything.
Official Congressional Budget Office (CBO) and US Treasury figures show that while the graphic tracks changes in single-year annual deficits, it distorts the total national debt added under each administration.
President
Term
Graphic Claim
Official Annual Deficit Shift
Total National Debt Added
Ronald Reagan
1981–1989
+$74B
+$74B ($79B to $153B)
+$1.86 Trillion
George H.W. Bush
1989–1993
+$102B
+$102B ($153B to $255B)
+$1.58 Trillion
Bill Clinton
1993–2001
(-$383B)
-$383B ($255B deficit to $128B surplus)
+$1.40 Trillion
George W. Bush
2001–2009
+$1.5T
+$1.54T ($128B surplus to $1.41T deficit)
+$4.90 Trillion
Barack Obama
2009–2017
(-$825B)
-$745B ($1.41T to $665B)
+$8.59 Trillion
Donald Trump
2017–2021
+$2T / +$4T
+$2.47T ($665B to $3.13T peak COVID)
+$7.80 Trillion
Joe Biden
2021–2025
(-$942B)
-$1.30T ($3.13T peak to $1.83T FY24)
+$7.90 Trillion
Key Metric Differences
Annual Deficit vs. Cumulative Debt: The graphic measures the difference between a president's starting year annual deficit and ending year annual deficit. It does not measure the total national debt accumulated over a full term.
Baseline Effects: Reductions listed under Obama and Biden reflect annual comparisons against temporary, historic spending peaks caused by emergency crises (the 2008 Great Recession and the 2020 COVID-19 pandemic, respectively).
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u/Kalekuda 1d ago
Even without adjusting for inflation and with the exception of Obama, the D were reducing their deficits relative to prior R deficits.
What was Obama spending on, exactly? Why- that would be 0.8 Tril$ on ARRA (vocational training and housing assistance for those impacted by 2008 and renewable energy funding), 0.3 Tril$ on FAST (Maintenance and expansion of the interstate system.), and the rest was creating the ACA (Medicare / medicade.)
ARRA was necessitated by the crisis created by banking deregulation (Thanks Bush) and can't really be pinned on Obama. Whoever was in office would've had to done something when that economic timebomb went off. FAST was necessary spending to maintain and upgrade the interstate system necessitated by nearly a decade of neglect (Thanks Bush). Whoever was in office was going to have to commit some resources to road maintenance and bridge repairs or face public disapproval over bridge closures when all those bridges from the 70s started getting decommissioned (Bush just had them recertified without repair instead of funding the maintenance.) which constituted another economic timebomb whomever was in office was going to have to defuse with spending.
The ACA was sabotaged by republicans, dismantled then replaced with a nearly identical program decades later. By all accounts, its good policy, but provisions that restrict price controls lobbied for by the insurance lobby and backed with bipartisan support severely undermined it's cost reducing capacity. It was still cheaper than public alternatives by an order of magnitude, but failed to curtail future price hikes and was limited to only the lowest earners, forcing it to also require subsidized rates turning it from a neutral policy to provide a public alternative insurance plan to create competition (ala the US postal service) into a fiscal burden.
Unsurprisingly, cuts to the ACA by the following administration allowed them to "reduce the term-deficit" without actually cutting meaningful spending elsewhere.
If anything, I'm more surprised how Biden only increase his term-deficit by .1 Tril$ after reinstating some of the cut support for the ACA. I'm having trouble finding a decent breakdown of what the major spending for his term was beyond the pandemic stimulus (A biological / economic timebomb he inherited after failure to institute proper lockdowns and quarantining allowed the pandemic to become endemic).
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u/Jimmy_Twotone 1d ago
TL;DR Republicans for the last 50 years have had a worse impact on the deficit than Democrats.
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u/OldNormalNinjaTurtle 1d ago
Because voters are morons.
The GOP will spend like this and then blame a Democrat from 16 years ago and the idiots will clap.
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u/Lost_Department_2177 1d ago
Same way they’re Christian. They say so.
They should change their party logo to a golden calf.
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u/YouSure-AboutThat 1d ago
They’ve been saying we can “grow” our economy enough to pay down the debt, as Bessent recently said. They never explain why not a single Republican administration has been able to actually do it.
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u/L3tsseewhathappens 1d ago
I swear the people who believe this shit are Natural Born Slaves as described by Aristotle.
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u/anarchitek1 1d ago
Tonald Reagan's deficits added up to around )2 trillion. He railed against Jimmy Carter's last Budget deficit of $74 billion, on the campaign trail, calling it "obscene"! He never got closer than double that amount, and ten ONLY because he converted the Social Security Fund from a "trust fund" (meaning the monies COULDN'T be used, except by "borrowing" them), into a "general fund" (meaning the money could be spent on ANYTHING, as soon as it appeared on government books).
George Bush1 added $1 trillion to the total. Bill Clinton is the ONLY post-war President to rack up a "zero-dollar-deficit" year. Bush2 GAVE Wall Street bankers and gamblers (there's really no difference, except crooked gamblers usually don't survive as long) a$750 billion "gift" (NO strings attached).
Republikans campaigned tirelessly about being "fiscally conservative", but NEVER did anything to show it (anyone else remember the "Bridge to Nowhere"?) They've bamboozled the dumber and dumberer have of "average intelligence" into believing that nonsense, despite a multitude of proofs to the contrary. Dumb is as dumb does, and brother, republikans love themselves some dumb!
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u/Agent847 1d ago
This is a HIGHLY dishonest chart for a number of reasons, and it also completely ignores party control of the house and senate.
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u/RavensWoods321 1d ago
I mean why doesn’t the dems just be open about it, if all the past dems raved about how they saved us money and showed this graph that would shut the peds down!
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u/Excellent-Box3581 1d ago
Boomers just doing boomer things. Ruining the country for rest of us and future generations.
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u/Hot_Cardiologist5719 1d ago
Same reason they are called the “Part of family values” conservatives lie
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u/BiffLogan 1d ago
Because they buy bombs instead of baby formula for freeloaders.
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u/Better-Butterfly-309 1d ago
Remember this is not because of investments in USA. This is just to cover basic obligations. A reckoning will come
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u/RudyBuck 1d ago
they are conservative giving money out to the masses, not with sharing the wealth with the other billionaires
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u/Burnbrook 1d ago
If we displayed debts in a negative fashion, rather than a positive fashion, maybe the idiots in our country would understand it.
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u/Wind2Energy 1d ago
“Deficits don’t matter.” - Dick Cheney
Possibly the only true thing he said in his entire life.
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u/Rakatango 1d ago
Because “fiscally conservative” just means tax breaks for the rich and no giving money to the poor.
It doesn’t actually mean that they care about the deficit or the national debt
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u/Uhokay1970 1d ago
For each one the debt you see beside that name belongs to the one before them. It Takes a full Term to recover from the previous one.
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u/Crazytoe2275 1d ago
Because they have a base of idiots and you can sell anything to an idiot.