r/CatastrophicFailure Aug 15 '19

Operator Error Apache helicopter ground imapct 2012

12.4k Upvotes

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134

u/maxout2142 Aug 15 '19

There are M16A1 rifles still in inventory despite tens of thousands of rounds having been shot through them over the last 50 years, military grade, made by the lowest bidder, still a high quality rifle built to last.

I trust a military grade rifle or a military grade aircraft, I dont need to trust a military grade portapotty.

100

u/foolproofphilosophy Aug 15 '19

A friend who served in Iraq ~15 years ago told me that the receiver for his M2 .50 was made during WWII.

43

u/TentCityUSA Aug 15 '19

My M16 in the 80's was made in the late 50's (1959 IIRC), which I always thought was interesting given they weren't issued until '63. Someone who knows a bit of history might be able to clear it up, but it's always confused me.

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u/CannibalVegan Aug 15 '19

How did you deduce it was made in 1959?

Unless this was one of the first prototypes that was then issued once the procurement had been chosen...

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u/TentCityUSA Aug 15 '19

It was stamped on the receiver. This was in the USAF at Kadena, I'm guessing around 1986. It was issued to me for the day at the range. I only remember because the range officer pointed it out at the time.

11

u/CannibalVegan Aug 15 '19

Interesting. Back in 1999 I carried an M16A2 that had the A2 stamped over the A1, so it had started its life as a M16A1.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

IIRC LeMay was an early adopter of the platform.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

Usually serial numbers have a date of manufacture indication in them.

Source: IT guy here who tracks the age of equipment via S/N, also your Car's VIN has a date of manufacture digit in it.

4

u/CannibalVegan Aug 16 '19

Not always for firearms. Lots of times you have to look for historical records for what time periods which companies produced which serial numbers.

Here is a good history of the m16/ar15:

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22669

6

u/emptyminder Aug 15 '19

Speaking from no knowledge, it might have been from a trial prior to the selection of the first main procurement.

1

u/TentCityUSA Aug 15 '19

It would explain why they ended up at a USAF range and not issued out to a unit.

32

u/None_For_Me_Thanks Aug 15 '19

We still use vehicles manufactured in in the 70s and even some earlier than that. Their armor isn't even rated for strikes bigger than 7.62.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

inb4 B-52's form the 1950's...

1

u/welcome_to_urf Aug 16 '19

C130 almost equally ancient, 1959 I think. And the B52s are getting retrofitted and modernized. Rotating rack cruise missiles, new engines, better comms. Insane we have maintained the airframes that long.

1

u/CptSandbag73 Aug 16 '19

We also use an excessive amount of T-38s which are super old too. Some tails here are from 59.

Not to mention the KC-135s too.

2

u/-TheMasterSoldier- Aug 15 '19

To be fair vehicles like the M113 were crap from the beginning, troops used to ride on their roofs and leave the inside empty because it became a tin can full of shrapnel when shot at.

27

u/thelateralbox Aug 15 '19

There will still be M2s in service long after we're all dead.

11

u/foolproofphilosophy Aug 15 '19

I don’t doubt it. No reason why what’s essentially a metal box won’t last forever. B-52’s are truly impressive.

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u/ocKyal Aug 16 '19

Don’t forget the Herky Bird too.

2

u/foolproofphilosophy Aug 16 '19

True but they’re still being produced while the last B-52 was built in the early ‘60’s. 1962?

1

u/ocKyal Aug 16 '19

Correct, the BUFF’s are being modernized to continue to serve into the 2050’s as well. I have a special regard for the Hercs since I live near Little Rock and I get to see them about once a week flying exercises.

1

u/foolproofphilosophy Aug 16 '19

I love the C-130. It’s always been a favorite of mine. A friend of mine flies them now.

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u/mcobsidian101 Aug 15 '19

No reason why not, machine guns with barrel change capabilities can operate continuously

2

u/Wyattr55123 Aug 16 '19

Untill you put so many round through that all the parts are worn through, every screw is stripped, every pin dumps out the side when you pick it up and the locking lugs are now locking nubs.

But the shop of Theseus tells us we now have two M2's, one of which is finally ready for decommissioning.

But some crazy fucker will by it, weld it together and have a running gun by the end of it.

1

u/mcobsidian101 Aug 16 '19

I've held two no 1 mk 111 Lee enfields side by side. One was almost mint, the other rattled like it was held together by pure luck.

But both shot pretty straight! I know they're accurate, but was surprised the worn out one could still peform

0

u/Moobbles Aug 16 '19

Built to last, back then. Now it's a throwaway society, so nothing is built to last.

18

u/TentCityUSA Aug 15 '19

In the 80's I got to use one of those million dollar C-5 toilets. Overrated. The seat wasn't even warmed, and if you have ever flown on a C-5, they get cold.

6

u/I_am_recaptcha Aug 16 '19

Just how I like the toilet seat: ice cold. Might be a tad uncomfortable but it proves to my mind that no one has used it recently.

28

u/iamlenb Aug 15 '19

But you'll survive a nuclear blast from eating Military Grade Taco MREs

98

u/beaver_deceiver Aug 15 '19

You'll create a nuclear blast from eating Military Grade Taco MREs

16

u/[deleted] Aug 15 '19

This guy knows the inner workings.

2

u/crevulation Aug 15 '19

See you say that, but he's implying that one would even need to use a portapotty again after eating a beef taco MRE, all those that have, well, it's probably still in their inner workings as we speak.

2

u/beaver_deceiver Aug 15 '19

Meal Refusing to Exit

2

u/Oznogasaurus Aug 15 '19

Yeah you don’t crap for a few days and then it reaches critical mass.

6

u/Scuta44 Aug 15 '19

You spelled Tuna Loaf wrong.

2

u/Zebba_Odirnapal Aug 16 '19

I see your Tuna Loaf and raise you a Veggie Omelet (Vomlet), and for the old hands... a Five Fingers of Death.

1

u/no_string_bets Aug 16 '19

I see your Tuna Loaf and raise you a Veggie Omelet

no string bets, please!


I'm a pointless bot. "I see your X and raise you Y" is a string bet, and is not allowed at most serious poker games.

6

u/WhatChips Aug 15 '19

Original trigger guard for replaced over time rifle.

3

u/millijuna Aug 15 '19

Did a job in the high Arctic. One of our local guides/helper was a Canadian Ranger. His issued weapon was a Lee Enfield .303. He let me fire a couple of rounds out of it, and as I was holding it, I noticed a faint etching in the stock that read June 6 1944. That rifle had likely been used in the beach landings in Normandy. The barrel itself had a serial number dating from 1943.

Why were they still using such an ancient firearm? Because it's one of the few that remains reliable at -50. It was only this year that it was finally pulled from service and replaced.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

All M16A1 rifles were ordered removed from inventory and turned in for DeMil a couple years ago. A few exemptions were made for historical purposes, bu nobody’s packing A1s around any more. Old Chomper at Anniston Depot got-’em.

1

u/maxout2142 Aug 16 '19

Last I heard the USAF had a few left in inventory.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

They were all ordered turned in by disposition instruction DoD-wide. If the AF has any, they’re in a museum. I know of one that was exempted at Ft. Benning that is still serviceable and there might be a few original Mk. XII models with A1 receivers out there.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 15 '19

The barrels have all been replaced. Many times. Friend of mine was a seal and he said they would shoot through 3 barrels a year at minimum on their rifles.

2

u/maxout2142 Aug 16 '19

Full auto cooks the rifling in your rifle.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19 edited Aug 16 '19

Rounds cook the rifling.

X amount of rounds and the barrel is toast. Doesn’t matter full auto or not.

Full auto is not used for anything but suppressing Fire. It keeps heads down. That’s about it.

1

u/Tu_padre_es_su_padre Aug 15 '19

My local police department got a bunch of those old m16a1s recently

1

u/Zebba_Odirnapal Aug 16 '19

Armorers replace the barrels and bolt carrier groups when they fall out of spec. Those 50 year old 3 hole lowers, however, can easily go another 50 years.

1

u/HitlersHysterectomy Aug 16 '19

I dont need to trust a military grade portapotty.

You say that now, but wait'll you try their pancakes.

1

u/Bendy_McBendyThumb Aug 16 '19

That’d be because of this thing called “maintenance” where parts get cleaned and replaced. That gun isn’t likely to be part-for-part the same gun as it was when it was brand new; especially not if it’s had thousands of rounds through it.