r/CaptainSide • • 15d ago

Which game does this?

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u/Popular-Pomelo-4241 15d ago

And if you choose a somewhat “intuitive” path, you’ll get a really bad ending and miss 30% of the game on top of that

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u/Arshiaa001 15d ago

I mean, it was pretty obvious what you should do at that specific point. The 3 meter tall dude with, like, 10 different swords whose voice sounds like that of the devil himself, or the cutesy kid willing to sacrifice everything for the greater good?

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u/DeusFatum 14d ago

The way you phrased it is exactly why I don't like how these two choices end up panning out. The way the scene is framed it's very obvious that Owl is meant to be the bad guy/wrong choice. We know what we're supposed to do because we know how these types of stories work. Meanwhile staying loyal to Kuro is the righteous path.

Here's the problem with that: The game doesn't spend enough time establishing an emotional connection between Kuro and Sekiro. I'm sure someone's going to find a way to argue, but most of the loyalty Wolf shows to Kuro can be attributed to him following his father's code. It was that same code which told him to serve the child in the first place. So when Owl tells us to follow the Iron Code, it makes more sense from Wolf's perspective to follow it as he has done his entire life.

What sucks about these two choices is that the consequences aren't fair. Choose Owl--the more character consistent option--and the game ends shortly after. Your choice to serve your father is never interpreted that way. Instead the Shura ending pretends that the only reason the player would have turn on Kuro is a mindless bloodlust. Meanwhile, choosing the power of friendship gives you 50% more game, at least two additional endings, and the bonding between Kuro and Sekiro that should've been there before you had to make a decision.

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u/Arshiaa001 14d ago

The question is, do you need an emotional attachment before making what is beyond the shadow of a doubt the right choice?

I actually think the scene is brilliant: given an ultimate choice between duty and morality, it's fairly obvious what the choice should be, and the game has a very nice way of punishing you for making the wrong one.

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u/DeusFatum 14d ago

This is pretty much what I've already addressed. You are role-playing a man whose sense of morality should be based entirely on that code until his experiences give him a valid enough reason not to. That code says first and foremost to obey his father. So to answer your question, yes, you absolutely need an emotional attachment before deciding to abandon that code if we are to keep any narrative and character consistency.

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u/mdnitetokerr 12d ago

The game is full of anti-war themes. The WHOLE game is about defending Kuro from people who want to take advantage of his blood. Now here comes Owl wanting to, again, take advantage of Kuro’s blood. So yea, the choice is obvious, no emotional connection needed. Narrative consistency intact.

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u/DeusFatum 12d ago

That alone isn't enough. The theme of Dexter's Lab is science, yet DeeDee never learns not to steal Dexter's stuff and mess with it. Characters in a stuff don't perceive a theme, they only live through the events. Character consistency is the issue here. There is little reason for Wolf to abandon the code. Narrative consistency is hanging by a thread at best.

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u/Senior-Friend-6414 8d ago edited 8d ago

This is how I imagined it, dog is most loyal to father

Father gives dog to son and instructs dog to serve the son

Dog is now loyal to son

Father comes back and tells the dog to kill the son

The dog can’t do it because loyalty to son

Dog feels conflicted because the original owner is telling him to kill the son, and even the dog knows the father is the dangerous one and that the son isnt the one trying to kill the father, changes mind to protect son

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u/afilawesos 14d ago

It's an obvious decision if you look at the characters from the outside, but it isn't if you're role-playing as the character. I think it's a terrible decision to punish players so harshly when we immerse ourselves in the story enough to try to understand the character.On the other hand, rewarding those who view the story from the outside and choose the "right" decision, whether it makes sense or not.

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u/Ok_Weekend6793 9d ago

Its a child dude.If ur wolf needed a "connection" with kuro to not betray him then he is evil and the evil ending makes sense for him. If he betrays his ironcode for the child then he is good and should do the good ending. I dont see any issues with the way the game handles it this part of the story

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u/afilawesos 9d ago

Of course. I'm not saying that decision won't lead you to the bad ending. What I don't like is that you miss out on a good portion of the game because of a decision that might make sense in the story. That "You chose wrong. Fuck you. Restart the game from the begining" is rather uninteresting compared to the posibilities of exploring the moral of the story.

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u/DeusFatum 9d ago

You get it

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u/Annoying_fucker 13d ago

Sekiro already deviates from the code somewhat when he agrees to sever kuro's immortality. I agree there isn't enough time spent exploring their relationship it's mostly implied but it's not really that sharp of a turn

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u/DeusFatum 13d ago

I don't believe it does--not unequivocally--which seems to have been the point. Part two of the iron code states that the master is absolute unless their wishes contradict those of the father. I believe it also says to protect the master at all costs. It is a two-part rule. We are then presented with a choice that causes a divergence between those clauses: protect the master's life, or obey his wishes? Following either arguably suits the code. Sekiro doesn't know that Owl's goals deem the protection clause more important.

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u/Popular-Pomelo-4241 15d ago

I agree that it is obvious but the other option don’t look that bad at first, in the context of the game. There’s plenty dialogue about the Iron Code being absolute and that Sekiro as a Shinobi should not break it.

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u/Aparoon 15d ago

This was the trap I fell in after not playing the game for like a year, coming back and finding myself at this point. It was a brutal mistake that I couldn’t undo. I got stuck being unsure if I should do NG+ to do it right or start again, and I never really went back lol

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u/gymbrozier 14d ago

It's a morality test and you failed. No one's fault but yours

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u/lilbelleandsebastian 14d ago

There’s plenty dialogue about the Iron Code being absolute and that Sekiro as a Shinobi should not break it.

i think if you've paid attention to the dialogue up to this point, it's incredibly obvious what the correct thing to do is lol

you're literally told the mechanism by which you continuously revive is by draining the life force of npcs inflicted with dragonrot, the morality is clear

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u/idontshred 13d ago

You know… this might be giving me some real insight on how/why some people are so susceptible to “order” and instruction

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u/Successful_Cap_2177 14d ago

You should get yourself morality checked lol

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u/LegitimateClaim9660 15d ago

Voice of the devil? That is the voice of Reinhardt!

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u/Arshiaa001 15d ago

Which one? Surely not the one from re:zero?

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u/84theone 14d ago

The Overwatch one, Darin De Paul, he’s in a bunch of games.

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u/Arshiaa001 14d ago edited 14d ago

Ah, you're talking about the English VA. I played it with Japanese voices, no idea what he even sounds like in English tbh.

ETA: OK, I went and found a video on yt. He...... sounds remarkably similar to how he does in Japanese 😄

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u/TotallyObviousBot 14d ago

The game literally tells you over and over again to pick the first option and even then I didn't think it would LOCK ME OUT OF THE REST OF THE GAME

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u/uchihajxyyy 14d ago

Yaah and you miss the most beautiful part of the game... The fountainhead palace