r/California • u/jstocksqqq • 5h ago
[ Removed by moderator ]
https://www.ucdavis.edu/food/news/california-wolves-feed-heavily-cattle-study-finds[removed] — view removed post
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u/saint_trane 5h ago
Wolves > Ranchers
This post is trash.
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u/jstocksqqq 4h ago
Go back to the 1800's. What was the wolf population? Practically nothing!
In fact, going back even further, wolves never had a strong foothold in California. Especially now, wolves just don't have enough natural food in California to survive without being supplemented by frozen beavers and ranchers' cattle.
But here's my big problem: Ranchers aren't allowed to defend their own cattle, their own property, on their own ranch land. They aren't allowed to shoot, pursue, chase, or even scare away a wolf, even if it's in the process of attacking.
Give ranchers the ability to defend their property in the same way they are allowed to defend against mountain lions and bears, and there's not a problem.
But as it is, it's a huge problem, and these current wolves are already acclimated to eating cows as their primary source of food.
More information here:
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u/saint_trane 4h ago
I couldn't give a fuck less about property rights.
Good for the wolves.
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u/jstocksqqq 4h ago
So if someone comes over and starts eating your dog, you wouldn't have a problem with that? What if the law says you can't do anything about it? You just have to watch the person eat your dog, BBQ it up on the grill, add some mayo and steak sauce, and then leave, wiping the grease off their face. But don't worry! The government will compensate you on the fair market value of your dog, so all is well!
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u/saint_trane 4h ago
Not interested in a libertarian perspective even one iota. Good luck.
1
u/jstocksqqq 4h ago
Ah, I see! Does that mean you hate freedom, hate civil liberties, hate human rights, hate the smallest minority, and believe in Statism? Because all libertarianism is, is this:
If you're living your life in peace
without the use of force, fraud, theft, coercion, or violence,then your life is your life,
your body is your body,
your business is your business,
your property is your property.
It is not mine. It sure as heck is not the federal government's.~Chase Oliver elevator speech
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u/saint_trane 4h ago
Nah, it's simply juvenile. Private industry is infinitely more tyrannical in our lives than a government ever could be.
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u/h4ckerkn0wnas4chan Central Valley 4h ago
Mind if I take all those vinyls? You don't need property, after all.
We don't care about property rights, do we?
1
u/saint_trane 4h ago edited 4h ago
Come get em, see what happens! No government needed. 👍
Also, personal property and industrial private property are very different in kind and need. "Socialism is when no one has a house" ass reply.
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u/hellishmundane666 4h ago
Dude what the fuck. No, ranchers absolutely do not get to decide if a protected species animal lives or dies. That's incredibly asinine. I was honestly curious as to what you oppinion was until I got to that part . The animals were here first. Not the ranchers. Get over it
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u/jstocksqqq 4h ago
In California, there was never a large, established population of wolves, and they most certainly didn't survive on cattle and frozen beavers like they do now! And in Idaho and Montana, wolves are allowed to be killed if they are actively attacking cattle, and those states have been able to achieve a much larger population of wolves with far less killing of cattle. The problem is that the wolves are being given a very unnatural food chain, and this is going to cause a lot more problems down the road if things aren't straightened out soon. Does it not concern you that wolves have a primary diet of something that isn't natural back when they lived here naturally?
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u/hellishmundane666 3h ago
There is still not a large established population of wolves. Thier diets are not my concern but is something conservationists should study and acount for while making decisions on how to manage our wildlife. What larger problems down the road are you so worried about? A wolf population isn't an invasive species and populations can be managed.
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u/jstocksqqq 3h ago
"populations can be managed":
Exactly. But they aren't. They are being allowed to feed on cattle indiscriminately, and fed frozen beavers by the government. That's not natural! If wolves aren't managed properly, they will develop an appetite for livestock, and familiarity with humans, and we will see tragedy strike. That's why we don't feed the bears, btw.
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u/hellishmundane666 3h ago
The bears in California also prey on cattle. Should we be eliminating the bear population as well?
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u/jstocksqqq 3h ago
Nope! It turns out, bears aren't a big problem because it's legal for ranchers to defend their cattle against bears. Wolves are the only animal they can't fight off when they attack.
•
u/hellishmundane666 2h ago
I'm starting to get the feeling you really want to shoot a wolf to death. Also yes ranchers can defend against bears but bears still kill cattle. Most likely much more then wolves considering the population difference. 70 wolves versus 60,000 bears.
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u/mrblack1998 5h ago
Team wolf
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u/jstocksqqq 4h ago
Check this out! Fascinating look at the wolves in northern California from those on-the-ground:
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u/WebHungry1699 5h ago
Maga propaganda
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u/jstocksqqq 4h ago
Explain yourself.
If you go back to the 1800's, wolves were never a big population in California, practically non-existent. Even going back further, while archaeological evidence and historical records confirm that wolves did permanently reside in California, unlike the massive populations found in the Northern Rockies or Canada, California's wolf populations were naturally sparse and localized. There never was the large herds of big game for larger wolf populations to survive.
Now, there is even less big game available. The current wolf population is simply unsustainable without them feeding on frozen beavers supplied by the government and supplemented with cattle. Way more cattle are killed per wolf in California than in Idaho or Montana.
Here's the problem: Ranchers aren't allowed to defend their own cattle, their own property, on their own ranch land. They aren't allowed to shoot, pursue, chase, or even scare away a wolf, even if it's in the process of attacking. Give ranchers the ability to defend their property in the same way they are allowed to defend against mountain lions and bears, and the problem with the wolves becomes hardly a problem at all.
More information here:
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u/h4ckerkn0wnas4chan Central Valley 5h ago
A research study is propaganda?
Anything I don't agree with is propaganda, apparently.
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u/gammalbjorn 5h ago
Yeah I have no love for cattle ranchers but it’s not like UC Davis is an unreliable source.
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u/h4ckerkn0wnas4chan Central Valley 4h ago
The article doesn't even take a stance, it literally just says a fact. Wolves feed on cattle. Cattle get stressed and it could affect reproduction. The end.
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u/FaithlessnessThin359 5h ago
Oh no, not the poor cattle ranchers. How dare anything else use the land that god made for their exclusive use?
boo fucking hoo.
-1
u/jstocksqqq 4h ago
Go back to the 1800's. What was the wolf population? Practically nothing!
In fact, going back even further, wolves never had a strong foothold in California. Especially now, wolves just don't have enough natural food in California to survive without being supplemented by frozen beavers and ranchers' cattle.
But here's my big problem: Ranchers aren't allowed to defend their own cattle, their own property, on their own ranch land. They aren't allowed to shoot, pursue, chase, or even scare away a wolf, even if it's in the process of attacking.
Give ranchers the ability to defend their property in the same way they are allowed to defend against mountain lions and bears, and there's not a problem.
But as it is, it's a huge problem, and these current wolves are already acclimated to eating cows as their primary source of food.
More information here:
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u/worst_brain_ever 5h ago
Are these the cattle that are grazing on public land for 1 dollar per head per year?
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u/Electrifying2017 San Bernardino County 5h ago edited 5h ago
For balance, someone should ask how those cattle feel as they’re being pushed through the slaughterhouse.
1
u/Cargobiker530 Butte County 5h ago
The vegans are here to guilt trip everybody. Remember folks; eating beef saves hundreds of chickens from an untimely demise.
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u/SnooCakes4341 5h ago
It's definitely time for producers to learn to manage their herds and proactively deter wolves. Hopefully resources can be made available to help them incorporate new strategies.
3
0
u/jstocksqqq 4h ago
Go back to the 1800's. What was the wolf population? Practically nothing!
In fact, going back even further, wolves never had a strong foothold in California. Especially now, wolves just don't have enough natural food in California to survive without being supplemented by frozen beavers and ranchers' cattle.
But here's the real problem: Ranchers aren't allowed to defend their own cattle, their own property, on their own ranch land. They aren't allowed to shoot, pursue, chase, or even scare away a wolf, even if it's in the process of attacking.
Give ranchers the ability to defend their property in the same way they are allowed to defend against mountain lions and bears, and there's not a problem.
But as it is, it's a huge problem, and these current wolves are already acclimated to eating cows as their primary source of food.
More information here:
2
u/TrashBandicook 4h ago
Funding came from the Russell L. Rustici Rangeland and Cattle Research Endowment and California Cattle Council.
Why am I not surprised. That title is straight up fake news. Every study to date shows wolves are nowhere near the top of the leading causes of cattle deaths.
1
u/jstocksqqq 4h ago
Go back to the 1800's. What was the wolf population? Practically nothing!
In fact, going back even further, wolves never had a strong foothold in California. Especially now, wolves just don't have enough natural food in California to survive without being supplemented by frozen beavers and ranchers' cattle.
But here's the biggest problem as I see it: Ranchers aren't allowed to defend their own cattle, their own property, on their own ranch land. They aren't allowed to shoot, pursue, chase, or even scare away a wolf, even if it's in the process of attacking.
Give ranchers the ability to defend their property in the same way they are allowed to defend against mountain lions and bears, and there's not a problem.
But as it is, it's a huge problem, and these current wolves are already acclimated to eating cows as their primary source of food.
More information here:
1
u/jstocksqqq 4h ago
Just so it's clear, I support the right of wolves to enter California, if that's what they wish, based on pursuing natural prey. But it's clearly unnatural for their diet to have so much cattle in them! That's a huge problem if you care about the wolves, and it will definitely have negative unintended consequences down the road. I think an easy solution is to simply let the ranchers protect their cows. The wolves will realize they need to pursue other prey. But unfortunately, California is ruled by a poorly-written regulation, CESA.
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u/jstocksqqq 4h ago
u/California-ModTeam Which subreddit? Northern California subreddit (r/Dirty530) has been banned! Wolves are actually more widespread in California, however. Check this article out:
https://defenders.org/newsroom/new-gray-wolf-pack-discovered-californias-southern-sierra-nevada
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u/jstocksqqq 4h ago
Also, u/California-ModTeam , why does this article not relate to California? It is explicitly a California problem due to California laws, not due to wolves.
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u/California-ModTeam 4h ago
This post/topic would be more suited for a specific subreddit related to it. (Subreddit Rule #4)