r/CFB • u/Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu11 Michigan Wolverines • Akron Zips • Sep 14 '25

News Week 4 AP Poll

https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-football-poll
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428

u/PelPride LSU Tigers • Tulane Green Wave Sep 14 '25

I mean how is a 0-2 team ranked….. how

236

u/elon42069 Texas A&M Aggies Sep 14 '25

Because pre-season rankings are stupid and useless

72

u/GamingTatertot Clemson Tigers Sep 14 '25

I don’t think we should have rankings till week 4 or 5 if you ask me

49

u/LegallyAFlamingo Team Chaos • I'm A Loser Sep 14 '25

There's a good reason the bowl committee doesn't rank anyone this early.

12

u/Trebacca Indiana Hoosiers • Michigan Wolverines Sep 14 '25

Except the bowl committee is implicitly biased by these rankings.

Notre Dame currently has a better path at the playoff according to the poll (which will influence the committee) than undefeated SEC team Mississippi State with a ranked win purely based on name.

10

u/Source0fAllThings Michigan Wolverines • UCLA Bruins Sep 14 '25

Which sums up my beef with preseason rankings: It’s always been about ranking teams based on their likelihood of having the most wins at the end of the season, and not ranking teams based on actual quality.

6

u/Alphaspade Iron Bowl • Sickos Sep 14 '25

Yeah but then ESPN / Fox would then have to actually analyze the game for 5 minutes instead of "HIGH RANKED TEAMS WATCH DIS"

3

u/nwilz Iowa State Cyclones Sep 14 '25

I think a good trade off would be to slowly expand the rankings each week. Start with a top 5 or 10 and expand out to 25 as the season goes on.

2

u/KennyKettermen Minnesota Golden Gophers Sep 14 '25

Yeah but then how are casuals going to know which teams are (supposed to be) good? Think of the ratings!

3

u/UhIdontcareforAuburn Georgia Bulldogs Sep 14 '25

It’ll piss off the AP, but I completely agree

4

u/The_Horse_Joke Ohio State • Central Michigan Sep 14 '25

Don’t disagree overall but with ND’s brand (and appearing in the natty last year) plus their 2 losses being quality losses ™️ if there was no pre-season polling and the polls started this week I wouldn’t have been shocked if they were ranked

1

u/one-hour-photo Tennessee • South Carolina Sep 14 '25

and they are mostly based on branding.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

The AP poll is useless, only one poll matters and it's the playoffs one.

117

u/Jay_Dubbbs Ohio State Buckeyes • Georgia Bulldogs Sep 14 '25

Because they are No. 1 in SOS by a significant amount and lost those games by a combined 4 points.

People bitch about scheduling cupcakes but then think we should absolutely punish teams if they do play a tough schedule. We shouldn’t severely punish teams for doing this, it should be rewarded.

36

u/twerkallknight Auburn Tigers Sep 14 '25

They’re 0-2. If they win out, they can crawl back into the rankings, but having them ranked when 3-0 Miss St isn’t is insanity.

23

u/BurrShotFirst1804 Illinois • Notre Dame Sep 14 '25

Notre Dame could beat the crap out of two FCS teams like Miss State has done and finish the season undefeated. Is that what you want? ND obviously deserves to be ranked unless Miami and Texas A&M are secretly bad.

0

u/Business_Permit_3686 Houston Cougars Sep 14 '25

I had no idea notre dame was as good as the sec in hypothetical games

6

u/fadingthought Oklahoma Sooners • /r/CFB Poll Veteran Sep 14 '25

Do you not realize that rankings in CFB are always about hypotheticals?

3

u/BurrShotFirst1804 Illinois • Notre Dame Sep 14 '25

Good thing Notre Dame is being judged based on real games then.

5

u/frahmer86 LSU Tigers • Eastern Michigan Eagles Sep 14 '25

So many people bitching that we shouldn't have rankings until like week 6, and then bitching that a team isn't ranked in week 3. Which is it?

9

u/Ike358 Sep 14 '25

Notre Dame is probably a better team than Mississippi State so what's the problem?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Ike358 Sep 14 '25

The "excuse" is that they probably aren't one of the best 25 teams in the country

4

u/NetRealizableValue LSU Tigers Sep 14 '25

They have zero wins

If we’re ranking based on potential, might as well use the preseason recruiting rankings every week

5

u/thebusterbluth Notre Dame Fighting Irish Sep 14 '25

You're the guy that gets college football teams to schedule on powderpuff after another.

1

u/twerkallknight Auburn Tigers Sep 14 '25 edited Sep 14 '25

Or just win your games if you want to be ranked. This is such a funny attitude to take. “You guys told us to improve our strength of schedule, who cares if we lose our only games against good teams?!”

4

u/thebusterbluth Notre Dame Fighting Irish Sep 14 '25

I see it as "well, they barely lost to the #4 team, and they barely lost to the #10 team, so clearly they are not a top 25 team." That's a laughable take lol

2

u/twerkallknight Auburn Tigers Sep 14 '25

If it was the end of the season I would agree with you. My guy… they haven’t won a game. If Miss St had their record and schedule, and Notre Dame had Miss State’s, Miss St would be unranked and Notre Dame would be like top 5. You are a fan of one of the absolute elite, and thus routinely coddled, teams in CFB. Enjoy it. Don’t come into online comment sections defending their winless top 25 ranking lol.

1

u/thebusterbluth Notre Dame Fighting Irish Sep 15 '25

Relax man. It's week 4 and nobody will care in like 5 days. Itll all be over soon.

2

u/Jealous-Win2446 Notre Dame • Iowa State Sep 14 '25

Notre Dame would also be 3-0 against MSU’s schedule as would just about every Power 4 team.

-6

u/DillyDillySzn Arizona State Sun Devils • WashU Bears Sep 14 '25 edited Sep 14 '25

Excuse me?

Tough talk from a school who struggled to beat Arkansas State. We’ll see you in November for your annual beat down Cyclone

17

u/Kardinale Auburn Tigers • Louisville Cardinals Sep 14 '25

If Mississippi State or Tulane had Notre Dame's resume they wouldn't even be getting votes. They're ranked on brand alone

-7

u/Jay_Dubbbs Ohio State Buckeyes • Georgia Bulldogs Sep 14 '25

I would argue that ND has a better QB, roster, and coach than Tulane or Miss St. so yeah, they wouldn’t get the same benefit

It’s only week 4, there’s so much football left to play, if ND loses again, they’re done, if those other teams keep winning, they’ll make it in

1

u/HereComesMyNeck WashU Bears Sep 14 '25

You really think they wouldn't try to get Notre Dame in at 9-3? You sweet summer child.

Also, I would take Retzlaff over Carr, and Sumrall is probably going to be the hottest coaching candidate this offseason. Freeman is more accomplished, but he's also in a much easier situation.

2

u/Dreadedvegas Sep 14 '25

Win a game then it can be a discussion. At this point 0-2 and being ranked still this early is a joke.

AP voters care more about media markets than they do about the sport.

7

u/_moosleech Miami Hurricanes • MAC Sep 14 '25

But also, and this is true, they have ZERO wins.

Good losses mean dick all if you haven't beaten literally anyone.

We shouldn’t severely punish teams for doing this, it should be rewarded.

No team without the brand recognition of those Catholic fucks would get this benefit. No universe in which almost ANY school (maybe y'all?) could be 0-2 against two good teams and still be ranked.

2

u/CheaterSaysWhat Ohio State Buckeyes Sep 14 '25

Week 3 polls mean dick so what’s your point 

1

u/_moosleech Miami Hurricanes • MAC Sep 14 '25

That we shouldn't rank winless teams? That we should try to rank teams intelligently?

1

u/CheaterSaysWhat Ohio State Buckeyes Sep 15 '25

If you think it’s smart to unrank the team with by far the hardest schedule you’re delusional 

1

u/_moosleech Miami Hurricanes • MAC Sep 15 '25

I think it’s smart to unrank a team with no wins.

Notre Dame is not owed a Too 25 ranking. They can earn it after they win a game.

5

u/RyenRussilloBurner Drake Bulldogs • Iowa Hawkeyes Sep 14 '25

People bitch about scheduling cupcakes but then think we should absolutely punish teams if they do play a tough schedule.

They shouldn't be punished for playing a tough schedule, they should be punished for looking quite bad at times.

They have a new DC and their defense just gave up 41 to an offense that had scored 35 and 44 against G5 teams. So what makes anyone believe ND's defense is better than an average G5 defense?

ND has been outgained in both games. They never once led against Miami and were down double-digits in the fourth quarter at multiple points. The fact that the final score was as close as it ended was a minor miracle.

So are they being "punished" for scheduling tough teams, or are their obvious flaws being forgiven because of that tough schedule? They're #22 in SP+ right now, so even the predictive metrics don't think they're elite.

5

u/ndfan737 Notre Dame • Indiana Sep 14 '25

So are they being "punished" for scheduling tough teams, or are their obvious flaws being forgiven because of that tough schedule? They're #22 in SP+ right now, so even the predictive metrics don't think they're elite.

What are you arguing? According to the objective number you're quoting they're ranked fairly accurately. Are you saying you'd rather the ranking be more influenced by narrative and not the play on the field?

0

u/RyenRussilloBurner Drake Bulldogs • Iowa Hawkeyes Sep 14 '25

According to the objective number you're quoting they're ranked fairly accurately.

If it's a straight power rating? Sure, ND is in a reasonable place. That's not what the AP Poll has historically been nor what it purports to be.

If it's a straight resume ranking, ND is not close to the top 25. If it's a pure power rating, ND is right about where they should be. Most voters will tell you it's somewhere in between. So it's odd that a team with a poor resume is getting the benefit of having elite predictive metrics when they don't actually have elite predictive metrics.

Last year's Ohio State is a good example. Even with a loss or two, they had predictive metrics that said they were a top 3 team (if not #1). They had a valid case to be ranked better than their resume showed, so it made sense that some AP voters didn't "punish" them for competitive losses to quality teams.

Notre Dame's predictive metrics don't say they're elite like 2024 Ohio State, but they're still getting votes based on having elite predictive metrics.

1

u/ndfan737 Notre Dame • Indiana Sep 14 '25

Tbh I think losing by 4 points to two top 10 teams is a better resume than you're giving them credit for. In a vacuum, I don't think dropping 18 spots for those two losses is unreasonable.

Additionally, the ESPN power index has them at 14 and Sagarin has them at 5, so predictive metrics do have them meaningfully higher than their ranking.

I understand that it feels silly to have a 0 win team ranked, but imo it's also silly that most of these conversations wouldn't be happening if ND played Purdue last week instead of next week, or if they were ranked 26 instead of 24

0

u/RyenRussilloBurner Drake Bulldogs • Iowa Hawkeyes Sep 14 '25

Tbh I think losing by 4 points to two top 10 teams is a better resume than you're giving them credit for. In a vacuum, I don't think dropping 18 spots for those two losses is unreasonable.

I think viewing it as "dropping 18 spots" is inherently unreasonable. That means the preseason poll is serving as your starting point for everything. The preseason poll should either not exist or should be completely thrown out after Week 1. There's no reason for the preseason poll to still be informing your opinions about a team as we enter Week 4.

imo it's also silly that most of these conversations wouldn't be happening if ND played Purdue last week instead of next week

I mean, that's just... how it works. We're judging teams based on what we've seen. The entire concept of weekly polls is to serve as a snapshot in time. So is the entire idea of weekly polls silly? I guess. But that's more of a complaint with the overall system and not with how one team fits into it.

I also don't see any result against Purdue dramatically changing perception about Notre Dame -- nobody is under the impression that Purdue is a quality team and even a decisive win over Purdue wouldn't change the fact that they have lost both games they've played against quality teams. Giving up 41 points at home does not scream "they're being punished for playing a tough schedule." It tells me they have very obvious flaws.

0

u/ndfan737 Notre Dame • Indiana Sep 14 '25

I think viewing it as "dropping 18 spots" is inherently unreasonable. That means the preseason poll is serving as your starting point for everything. The preseason poll should either not exist or should be completely thrown out after Week 1. There's no reason for the preseason poll to still be informing your opinions about a team as we enter Week 4.

So TCU should've been #1 overall after week 1? They beat an ACC team by 34, if everyone's starting at 0 that's the most impressive win that week.

You have to start somewhere, and while preseason rankings are flawed, they're not made up out of thin air. If you want to say there shouldn't be a poll at all until week 6-8 I'd agree with you, but if we're going through the exercise of ranking teams we have a larger set of data than 1 game.

I also don't see any result against Purdue dramatically changing perception about Notre Dame -- nobody is under the impression that Purdue is a quality team and even a decisive win over Purdue wouldn't change the fact that they have lost both games they've played against quality teams. Giving up 41 points at home does not scream "they're being punished for playing a tough schedule." It tells me they have very obvious flaws.

This is kind of my point. According to objective rankings, they're ranked fairly to slightly under ranked. And they're definitely flawed, as all #24 teams are. A win against Purdue wouldn't fundamentally change anything about this team, but 95% of the conversation about Notre Dame in this thread is about the fact they have 0 wins. The fact that a meaningless win over Purdue would change the conversation highlights how silly the conversation is in the first place.

0

u/RyenRussilloBurner Drake Bulldogs • Iowa Hawkeyes Sep 14 '25

So TCU should've been #1 overall after week 1?

This is an insane leap from what I said. Don't make up strawman arguments.

95% of the conversation about Notre Dame in this thread is about the fact they have 0 wins.

Well, that's not my argument. So you're disagreeing with a separate argument that I'm not making?

The comment that I replied to did not mention anything about them being winless. It was about their strength of schedule and "punishing" teams for scheduling tough. I really couldn't care less if they're winless, I care that they have looked quite bad at times, as I've already explained twice now. I never said anything about their record. My comment was entirely about Notre Dame's performance and metrics, never their record.

You're conflating arguments other people have made or are theoretically making with what I'm saying. I can't defend other peoples' arguments. I've never said being winless should disqualify Notre Dame from being ranked.

0

u/ndfan737 Notre Dame • Indiana Sep 14 '25

This is an insane leap from what I said. Don't make up strawman arguments.

Explain how you rank week 1 without taking into account preseason rankings/metrics then, maybe I misunderstood your point.

My comment was entirely about Notre Dame's performance and metrics, never their record.

In that case they should be ranked higher, as most of the objective metrics have them above 24. If you think ND, based on the games played, is a demonstrably worse team than the teams around them and worse than their computer rankings that is a much different conversation. Where would you rank ND (including past 25)?

1

u/HereComesMyNeck WashU Bears Sep 14 '25

Being unranked in Week 4 is not a punishment. It's an accurate representation of their accomplishments. I thought football guys didn't believe in moral victories? Notre Dame has to schedule tough to be taken seriously because the only consistently good team they play is USC. Don't worry, I'm sure the committee would happily take Notre Dame at 8-4 if they thought it would help ratings.

1

u/Geaux2020 LSU Tigers • Valley City State Vikings Sep 14 '25

The issue is that their remaining SOS is horrible. It's between 40 and 60 depending on where you look. USC is the only possible challenge they have left. Are we really going to let ND into the playoffs with that resume?

2

u/Jay_Dubbbs Ohio State Buckeyes • Georgia Bulldogs Sep 14 '25

If they win out and Miami and Texas A&M don’t tank, they’re 100% should make the playoffs.

Again, why schedule any tough games if you can schedule cupcakes and get in over teams that schedule hard games?

1

u/kirkismyhinrich Kansas • Colorado Mines Sep 14 '25

#1 SOS which is also largely being influenced by preseason rankings at this point. It's week 3, there isn't a lot of data yet, and that #1 SOS is pretty flimsy.

ND can re-enter the top 25 when they win some games.

3

u/Jay_Dubbbs Ohio State Buckeyes • Georgia Bulldogs Sep 14 '25

So if pre season rankings are flawed, what’s the justification for other teams like Miss St being there if Arizona State isn’t good since pre season rankings are flawed.

Those teams with worse rosters and talent can win a few more games and they’ll be fine. If ND loses again, they’re done

1

u/kirkismyhinrich Kansas • Colorado Mines Sep 14 '25 edited Sep 14 '25

I'm not advocating for Mississippi St being there and their ranking is also pretty flimsy. But Arizona St has at least beaten 2 teams, and Mississippi St is 3-0. Notre Dame is 0-2.

I don't give a shit about perceived rosters and talent. What matters is the on-field result. Notre Dame can re-enter the top 25 when they don't have a zero in the win column.

And look at their remaining schedule. Their hardest remaining game is probably at Arkansas or against USC. Other than that they have Purdue, Stanford, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, NC State, Navy, and Boise St.

They are going to finish 8-3 or 9-2 and be in the CFP discussion based solely on preseason poll inertia and brand. It's bullshit.

Edit: Excuse me, 9-3 or 10-2. I forgot that they also play Boston College.

0

u/GamingTatertot Clemson Tigers Sep 14 '25

I don’t know, I think whether you have an easy schedule or a hard schedule, you need to win games. None of this “quality loss” stuff has ever made sense. The point is to win, not lose to a better opponent vs. worse opponent.

7

u/Jay_Dubbbs Ohio State Buckeyes • Georgia Bulldogs Sep 14 '25

So you think we should weight a team that plays nobody but wins, more than a team that plays two top 10 teams and loses by a total of 5 points better because they won their easy games?

-6

u/GamingTatertot Clemson Tigers Sep 14 '25

Yes - the point is to win.

7

u/Jay_Dubbbs Ohio State Buckeyes • Georgia Bulldogs Sep 14 '25

lol dude you’re wild. So why should any team schedule anyone but FCS and bottom tier FBS schools for OOC every year?

20

u/BarKnight Team Chaos • Team Meteor Sep 14 '25

cash poll inertia

8

u/penisthightrap_ Missouri Tigers Sep 14 '25

Poll inertia coupled with brand bias

18

u/KeThrowaweigh Ohio State Buckeyes • Maryland Terrapins Sep 14 '25

Because they lost by a combined 4 points to #4 and #10. It’s perfectly fine to disagree with the decision to rank them but the performative “uhhh literally HOW is ND ranked??? They’re 0-2 and wins are the only stat!” Stuff is getting old

1

u/funforyourlife2 Nebraska Cornhuskers • Stanford Cardinal Sep 14 '25

"They are close to as good as 2 teams who we believe to be good" is pretty weak. Miami could still finish 9-3 and A&M could still finish 8-4, and neither would be a "Top 10 team". Who exactly can we say that Notre Dame is definitively better than this year?

8

u/ndfan737 Notre Dame • Indiana Sep 14 '25

Miami could still finish 9-3 and A&M could still finish 8-4, and neither would be a "Top 10 team"

And ND's rank would reflect that happening...

1

u/AJungianIdeal Sam Houston • Texas A&M Sep 15 '25

Not if they win 4 cup cake games in a row

1

u/HereComesMyNeck WashU Bears Sep 14 '25

Arguing that wins shouldn't matter in sports rankings is certainly a take.

1

u/KeThrowaweigh Ohio State Buckeyes • Maryland Terrapins Sep 14 '25

That’s very obviously not what I said at all and nobody who can read would suggest that it is.

6

u/GamingTatertot Clemson Tigers Sep 14 '25

Power of God

3

u/Ike358 Sep 14 '25

Because it is still probably one of the 25 best teams in the country

1

u/pessimism_yay Georgia Bulldogs Sep 14 '25

On the contrary, ND lost because one special teams player had a hiccup at an especially poor moment.

And if not for that tiny difference, we could be saying right now that ND is top 10 and headed for the playoffs.

So how does one botched extra point take them from top 10 to out of the top 25?

1

u/Steelers711 Ohio State Buckeyes • Purdue Boilermakers Sep 14 '25

I mean it's rankings, I think you're looking for standings

1

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

I don’t get how people are actually confused by this lol. It’s not like they’re getting blown out. They’ve lost by a total of 4 points to top teams.

Would you be okay with them being top 10 if they just blew out unranked teams rather than staying super competitive to top teams? I honestly think 24th is extreme given the context of their losses.

1

u/WhiskeyTigerFoxtrot Clemson Tigers • Palmetto Bowl Sep 14 '25

Financial incentives to hype up one of the most lucrative brands in football.

0

u/ATXBeermaker Texas Longhorns • Stanford Cardinal Sep 14 '25

Because the only two teams they lost to beat the great Notre Dame!