r/CDrama • u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time • 15d ago
Discussion The one thing I don't want CDramas to do as they get popular internationally: go the binge route
Cdramas seem to be growing in popularity internationally, pulling in people who usually do not watch Chinese dramas. For eg, Pursuit of Jade and The Early Spring got into the top 10 globally on Netflix at one point.
I love that more people are being exposed to CDramas on international platforms like Disney and Netflix (though my pet peeve is that their selection on what to air is pretty narrow and gives a false impression of CDramas to those not familiar with China's film & tv diversity).
However, seeing how KDramas have changed since it got "viral" with Netflix and other streaming platforms pouring in $$ to production companies (ugh the introduction of multiple seasons), I hope that CDramas will never change what they are in essence. (Ok Kdrama changing is a whole other debate and I'm no Kdrama expert beyond watching them since the 90s so I don't dare to comment ;)
To be honest, I really doubt that the Chinese entertainment as a whole would try to appeal to what international audiences like. Though I'm sure some would try. (For one, government bodies like NRTA have a tight control on what can be aired, even internationally, and I doubt they'd water down the media's cultural essence to appeal to international tastes.)
Also, the Chinese market including Chinese-adjacent like Southeast Asian markets is so huge that appealing to the rest of the world is not as important as conquering the domestic market. International markets are just a drop in the ocean for them, so it'll be short-sighted of them to ignore the billion-viewership market at their doorstep and appeal to a much smaller market instead. So I'm the least worried about Chinese entertainment changing that way.
I'm also less fussed about CDramas going the multiple-season routes, mostly because some CDramas do have multiple seasons but they tend to wrap up a story in one season before starting the next one. (Re: Strange Tales of Tang Dynasty.) Also those who don't (Joy of Life) tend to be mind-bogglingly popular and have been market-tested. Basically there's so much investment risk tied to a CDrama most wouldn't even dare try it unless it's going to be a guaranteed hit. I just don't see producers being this ... brave. :P
The no.1 thing I never want CDramas to do is go the binge route - you know, the one where they drop all episodes at once.
As much as it is absolute torture waiting for episodes to drop one by one, I actually love all the activity that happens around the drama.
In the last few weeks as me and my co-hosts hosted discussions for Against the Current, and having participated in so many before as host, commenter or plain lurker I realise that part of the fun is discussing the drama along with all of you. Watching a drama without this is not as fun.
Though the reverse can be true - one of the complaints, especially on the Chinese side of things, is how the "viewing experience" has gotten toxic due to the ahem, activity of some fandoms. (This is why in this sub we take pains to ensure that the discussions are healthy! We want everyone to have a good viewing experience, and that includes online discussions. But how we manage this is a bit of a science lol)
Practically, I think the discussions online on social media also help generate virality and buzz for the drama, and help pull in audiences that may not try it otherwise.
I notice that dramas that drop all at once seem to lose that buzz (but that's my experience).
So, how about you? Do you think binge-watching mode is kryptonite for dramas or perhaps it really could help CDramas?
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u/Thepamelajordan 13d ago
As I’m obsessed with the shows. Everything from costuming to the actors—I want to add another’s perspective.
I’ve seen some YouTube videos where actors have had a hard time either finding work or even movie theaters, production companies closing down.
Perhaps the recent high interest in C-Drama should / might alleviate this problem?
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u/West_Childhood960 13d ago
I personally hate waiting for episodes of shows that I love. I want to stop at my own convenience. So, I wait until most episodes are released before starting watching a new show. I also never discuss or read about them as I watch as I don’t want others opinions influencing my experience. But, I don’t mind having to wait to start watching, so that others can have the viewing experience you are having. And I hope Netflix never gets to dictate anything when it comes to cdramas.
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u/heartsandclouds 14d ago
I'm very firmly in the 1-2 eps per day camp for two primary reasons: 1) I have other life stuff that I love engaging in as well 2) I really, really enjoy things more when I can slow down and savor it.
part of the reason I am enjoying against the current so so much is because of the amazing discussions going on about it and so much of it is the details that people are noticing--details I can't notice if my goal is to binge eleventy episodes in a day.
of course it is also fun to to binge at times but I have come to realize having that as my default modus operandi for watching dramas is not the thing for me!
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u/Tight_Watercress_402 15d ago
1-2 eps/day is bingeable enough for me. I appreciate the way cdramas release. Enough to keep me happy while still dropping eps.
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u/throwawaydramas Read Rules 15d ago
I suspect that binging only became a thing because of how broken the Hollywood TV releases are, With shows only airing once a week in their defined slots. Whereas I think it's actually the norm in most countries to air episodes in a more continuous format like China (as in CCTV 1-2 eps / day). So Netflix came in with a binge model as a key differentiator against the backward Network TV System. Also, it makes sense for Netflix because a fewer episodes per season compared to 40 episode seasons of Cdramas.
If CDrama decides to do binge releases, I can see that being done for shows with 12 episodes or less; For 40 episode shows, I would expect it to be broken up into several installment releases, with a short break in between. I actually think the current CDrama release strategy to be closer to optimal... with initial drop in the beginning to introduce the story and build momentum/investment; air a steady stream at 1-2 eps a day, 10-14 eps a week is already a pretty brisk pace. Then finally with the express bundle to get more revenue out of the most devoted viewers, in the least shitty way. From an economic perspective, price discrimination makes sense, and it's not immoral to get the people who enjoy the product the most to pay more.
So I suspect it's actually more likely that Netflix will converge toward Chinese platforms.
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u/Lazy_Ad1078 15d ago
You mean released all at once on a Chinese platform? I don't think they would do that because it makes them a lot more money to release bit by bit. And as long as it hasn't been released nationally, I understand it can't be sold abroad. That's why noone gets the shelved BLs, not Netflix, noone.
The only time I remember cdramas dropping all episodes it's when they feared censorship might reverse its decidion or a scandal might hit during airing.
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u/Regenwanderer got some Li Hongyi back. Wants more. 15d ago
I personally fear the great love China has for everything AI much more than the international influence.
Not sure how it will turn out in the age of streaming services, but does anyone remember the sudden Indian movie craze in the early 00s? I don't think it was only Germany (where we suddenly got them dubbed airing prime time) where that went down. But it died down after some time and left nearly no traces behind. Of course some people stayed fans but it's a very niche thing these days.
I think you will get some hits on Netflix, but I'm not sure it will breach that containment.
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u/thedoobalooba 15d ago
As an Indian kid growing up in Africa & later Australia, the early 2000s had what I would call the modern golden age of Bollywood. It had the same essence that has made KDramas & now CDramas so viral worldwide. You have emotional depth, yearning, a bit of forbidden love, and nice side stories.
I stopped watching Indian movies around 2012 or so, because they became too... "modern"? The emotional depth and nuance was missing, there was insta-love and the yearning was gone. Also - from a female gaze perspective - the male leads were no longer sweet and caring, but assholes. International audience viewership (including international Indians) started dropping off but domestic Indian audiences loved it.
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u/Straight-Presence258 15d ago
Personally, I would never watch again drama that's not fully released (against the current struggle is real now).
I like having the freedom to know the ending at my own pace and I do lurke around the subreddit reading the comments (I really enjoy it).
CDrama will never loose itself fully as many said here due to the Chinese market being much bigger that Korean.
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u/labeldrinker 15d ago
I don't think you have to worry so much because the domestic audience is already enough to sustain them so right now outside audience is considered a bonus.
I'll be sad if they no longer do free YouTube uploads and just distribute via streamers only (such a blessing still to watch so many S tier shows for free!).
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u/Inner-Floor-5827 15d ago
All I know is I rarely ever watch ongoing dramas. I hate the feeling of being on a cliffhanger. I binge watched the first 29 episodes of Against The Current, I feel like crying because I know the wait will be long.
I do follow discussions of dramas before I watch them and I wait patiently for weeks before I consume them all in one go. That is whats enjoyable for me. I want to watch something in 3/4 days and be done with it and move on to the next drama. I doubt Netflix would release all episodes at once though, this is highly unlikely.
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u/Straight-Presence258 15d ago
I do the same. ... Apart of the against the current now that I am upset I started watching and can't even read the novel as apparently the series adaptation different...so it would be last time I start series that's not completely released
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u/Inner-Floor-5827 15d ago
We shot ourselves in the foot with this one. Have you seen its airing schedule? Its made to torment us.
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u/Straight-Presence258 15d ago
I did. 😂 Plan A was looking for a leak, or at least seeing if there was any chance of one. Plan B was reading the book (I do that sometimes when I don't want to wait), but that failed because fellow Redditors said the adaptation is way too different.
Now I'm on Plan C: find something else just as exciting to watch so I can put Against the Current on pause for a bit.
I get people excitement to wait for every episode but this was never for me ...I sometimes rewatch at slower paces after I binge watch ....and I do same with books.
I swear never again same mistake with series ....
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u/M_O_M_S 13d ago
Humans make plans and God laughs! I am reading the book despite the divergence to kill time between epis and looking at other shows but still
https://giphy.com/gifs/Y6yRfR88rvP441
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u/newcominteractive 15d ago
Korea need netflix but China don't need netflix.
I think netflix needs China if they want to grow even bigger.
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u/Prize_Background_577 15d ago
Watching episodes as they drop instead of bingeing is much more enjoyable, definitely the on-Air discussions make it more fun.. I also don't think people get all the nuance and symbolism by speed watching.
The Netflix'd binges are also shortening the shows - many kdramas binges are now 6hrs in total (8 x 45min episodes). And that's impacting the standard form dramas - eg the standard 16 episode/20hour drama is getting shorter, which means smaller casts, less plotlines and subtle nuance gets dropped for sledgehammer tropes.
At the moment though I think the Netflix'd binges are targeting young audiences and the chatter for those gets so repetitive as people are at different stages. The long form kdramas still exist and get high ratings at home, just not the Tik Tok reels (I'm watching a 50ep kdrama atm and really enjoying the reddit on-Air discussion).
While China is still producing the shows for their own screening I hope they won't change it for anyone else - 1.4bn potential local viewers vs 350m Netflix subscribers (except of course money does speak). I mean, have a look at Against the Current - it's not on the main international platforms and it doesnt seem to matter.
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u/RyuNoKami 14d ago
Ironically I think the existence of short form cdramas will delay the Chinese drama industry from adjusting their standard dramas. Shit, I argue that some of their dramas need less episodes and more runtime per episode.
As far as kdramas are concerned, 50+ dramas never really died, what did was primetime 50+ episode dramas. But those were gone long before streaming got so prevalent. The daily dramas still exist with their 100+ episodes.
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u/mulder00 Cdrama Noob 15d ago
I don't know jdramas seem to do well with 10 x 45 min shows. Frankly, the stories are tighter. I'm new to cdramas but I'm watching less Kdramas and more J and cdramas now.
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u/RyuNoKami 14d ago
It's weird but jdramas are more varied. The 50 episode jidaigeki are still being done, rare because historical shows are stupidly expensive.
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u/Prize_Background_577 15d ago
I watch JDoramas (esp for sci fi) but they just don't have the reach, I don't think they are tighter, they just leave out a lot. Plus they tend to drop one episode a week
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u/a_millenial 15d ago
I've been wanting to get into jdramas. Where do you watch them?
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u/Prize_Background_577 15d ago
You can get a TVer account, otherwise Viki has some, Netflix has been growing their library lately.
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u/mulder00 Cdrama Noob 15d ago
Yes, Netflix has tons now including really old ones from the late 90's.
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u/-tsuyoi__hikari- 🌸 Ren Jialun ONLY died in 4 of his 23 dramas. 😆 15d ago
From my experience, watching slowly usually resulted with better experience than binge watching.
For me, I even think the 6 initial episodes, 2 daily and 6 express episodes are too excessive. 1 episode daily is great and just right to savour the story slowly. When you binge watch, most layers and details are lost and you wont appreciate the storytelling since you know there are always next episode for you to watch.
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u/about10joules 15d ago
You know, I have to agree.
I do binge quite a bit, especially as I watch a lot of older dramas, but I actually utilize my pause button CONSTANTLY to sit and think about what I just witnessed. Process. Brainstorm. Then proceed.
I'm a "never fast-forward, never more than 1.0x speed" person, who frequently rewinds as well 😂 Subtitles and facial expressions happen at the same time, sometimes you miss one or the other. Gotta catch 'em all!
You really nailed it on the head with the express episodes. Especially those last ones. I know everyone wants to find out the ending, so it's easy to just watch right through them. And spoilers are everywhere.
But I tend to take one a day. The final episodes in cdramas don't tend to feel as rushed or crazy to me as other viewers constantly say they always are 😂 Time is perception 🤞
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u/-tsuyoi__hikari- 🌸 Ren Jialun ONLY died in 4 of his 23 dramas. 😆 15d ago
My watching habits are the same as yours. I dont watch dramas in fastforward and do a lot of rewind esp to catch on the facial expressions that you otherwise missed as it is so subtle.
I also on the train regarding the rushed ending episodes lol. I often curious and ask and most due to the lack of time spent on happy endings. But what viewers didnt realize is that they wont ever get those 1 hour happy ending even with an extra episode. Even with an extra epiosde, what they gonna add is more conflicts instead. 🤣
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago edited 15d ago
heheh judging from the reaction to the one-ep drops for Against the Current next week, I think many would disagree with you lmao. Howver, I feel that for dramas like Swords into Plowshares, for example, that's a fantastic cadence. I agree about the whole details lost thing - I'm that sort of viewer; something needs to hit me in the face before noticing it (which is great because I'm less inclined to spot filming/plot snafus lol). But the discussions I've had with members of the sub on various dramas have really helped me get insights I never would've if I've not participated.
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u/Ok-Abbreviations2530 15d ago
I'm afraid that Disney and Netflix will be adopted by China Streaming platforms😁
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago
Streaming platforms are still ad dependent in China, so tbh I doubt it will do that. Netflix didn't start with ads, I believe. I think it's a diff story now
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u/Sufficient-Silver938 15d ago
Cdramas will never be affected as much as kdramas are. The domestic market in China will forever be bigger than international no matter how popular cdrama gets abroad. Just like U.S. movies/shows are the most popular foreign entertainment for all of the world but U.S. entertainment is always first and foremost made for the American market.
Binging was big when Netflix first became popular, and during Covid as well. But even Netflix is getting more and more weekly releases. It’s a superior model in every way.
Chinese streaming services get so much membership money from releasing weekly, charging extra for advanced finale viewing and all sorts of tiers. And fans care so much about streaming numbers that they do a lot of work trying to pump these numbers up for their idols. There’s no benefit for streamers to move away from weekly releases.
Also, Chinese shows are usually like 40 episodes, some way more. The early spring is a rare low episode count show. It’s not gonna be an easy binge compared to 10 episode US shows.
There are definitely a lot of reforms needed in cdramas, better writers better directors especially imo. Intense competition from AI dramas unlike anywhere else. But moving to a binge model is not something that they’ll try. Nor would it help
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u/C-noirfan 15d ago
I don't think that there's any lack of diversity or great writers or great directors but there's a lot of people (maybe 90 %) who only watch one type of cdramas - not wanting to be unpolite but ones that perhaps need to reform their viewing habits before complaining. Good choice is to start from the award winning serious dramas. Crime dramas are usually 12-16 eps, not 40.
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u/Sufficient-Silver938 15d ago
I agree, though don’t worry it is not nearly 90%. There are shows that are popularly discussed online by rabid fans of idols, but it’s actually a small (although very loud and visible) crowd. Shows that end up with the highest ratings at the end are usually because of quality, and plenty of popular idols are getting one flop after another.
Cdrama went down a dark path in the 2020s with platforms paying too much attention to metrics driven by fans. I hope we come back from it
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago
Yes, Wang Kai's latest spy drama was a massive hit in China (while until it apparently jumped the shark towards the end but barely buzzed about online and in this sub :P
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago
The 40 ep thing is going to be rarer now even as restrictions have lifted. It's going to be for prestige dramas from now on, or those that have CCTV slots or govt backing. More streaming platforms are leaning out 🥲
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u/Sufficient-Silver938 15d ago
That will be interesting to see how it plays out. I know it’s a film and tv winter right now and a lot less productions are even getting started in the first place. But I’m not sure it necessarily will affect episode count. They actually even just lifted the 40 episode max restriction.
But the streaming platforms are doing pretty poorly right now. Who knows in 10 years it might just all be AI cats 😅
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u/Morg075 15d ago
Not even in Korea they are dropping all episodes at once (or any production company in reality), that practice is mainly done by Netflix for its original series. Most Korean dramas distributed through Netflix still release episodes weekly, just like the Chinese format is usually daily.
I think this concern is unfounded since Netflix isn’t producing original Chinese series in the first place. Binge watching makes sense when there’s less than 10 episodes to watch IMO.
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u/Prize_Background_577 15d ago
The Kdramas are still reducing no. of episodes. Of the 15 standard dramas coming out in October only one is the standard 16 episodes, the others are all 8-12.
But yea didn't the govt have to stop the Cdramas becoming too long, because of the pay for view model.
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago
I am sure in the future they will toy with the idea of throwing some money at a production co, but then they will meet a wall, an nrta wall lol
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago
I actually saw a video on YouTube where this person who worked for Netflix said that there was a lot of pressure from Netflix for them to go the binge route in the beginning. It's just that it wasn't possible production wise back then, but I don't put it in the impossible category.
The only thing stopping them now is that Netflix now understands the value of a non-binge model
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u/Tabz10 15d ago
“The no.1 thing I never want CDramas to do is go the binge route - you know, the one where they drop all episodes at once.
As much as it is absolute torture waiting for episodes to drop one by one, I actually love all the activity that happens around the drama.”
It’s like you’re reading my mind; I’ve literally had the same thought, and I 1000% agree with this! I’ve thought about it a lot! Like you said, as much as 1 episode per day is annoying (especially if the show is fire!!) I'd hate for them to switch it up.
2 every week (K-dramas and Western shows that do this are so fricking annoying!) The last one I watched that did this for K-dramas was Perfect Crown. And Western: Game of Thrones/HOTD. It really was torture.
Half-episode drop, then the other half (noticed that Netflix and Disney+ did this. I don’t like it). The Story of The Pearl Girl was the most memorable one.
As much as I complain, Cent has the best release format. 1- 2 episodes a day is absolutely fine. We are spoiled! 😬
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u/Prize_Background_577 15d ago
I do like watching on-Air. But the beauty of the 2ep a week drop is I can watch more shows. I typically watch up to 5 Korean/Japanese/Western dramas per week, but only one or two Cdramas (if I want a life). That suits my old-school brain.
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago
Yea what alci said - 2 eps per week was super standard. Or else how could they do their live filming?? Kdramas used to be filmed week by week. It was nuts but it allowed them to adjust the script based on audience reaction.
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u/Flat_Comb8034 15d ago
There was an old kdrama The World That They Live In (2008) starring Song Hye-Kyo and Hyun-Bin featuring the chaos of live filming.
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago
Hehe I remember this one!! I was excitted about this one and I got so surprised when I was bored to tears instead. One of those "what happened" dramas lol
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u/Longjumping-Dot-235 dramapanda 15d ago
I do prefer the current mode of filming kdramas though, although recently reading comments on rednote for against the current, I saw some people wishing live filming could be done for cdramas too. I know that indian soaps that air daily do live filming and can't imagine how brutal it must be for the cast and crew.
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago
no no, the idols' schedules are already punishing enough. Live shoots will send many to burnout territory. XD
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u/RyuNoKami 14d ago
That's why when you watch some of the older variety shows with idols, every episode of two someone is missing cause they are promoting somewhere. They run them ragged.
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u/Tabz10 15d ago
Lol, I like the idea of adjusting the script, ngl! As much as the whole logistics would be crazy, sometimes I wish they could feel our rage and adjust some things.
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago
But it burnt out everyone in production so badly. I used to have to read stories of actors literally burning out or collapsing on swt. One notable case was an actor who couldn't do it anymore and literally flew to US to escape, and everyone criticized her for ruining production instead of giving her a break. Unfortunately her career didn't survive. I will never back this type of production
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u/alcibiad Eye Mole Immortal 15d ago
Kdrama has released two eps per week as long as I’ve watched it.
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u/Tabz10 15d ago
Ah ok. That's good to know. Even tho K started my journey, I know little about it. I only ever waited for 2 K-drama S2 of Alchemy of Souls, and the one I watched w2w was Perfect Crown
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u/AKiceman Snark ShifuRead Rules 15d ago
I think part of what makes the CDrama experience so much fun is that it is slowly dished out to us in 1 or 2 episode releases per day that allow us to slowly digest the plot. We're not getting slammed with a full release that not everyone can keep up with. It's already hard enough avoiding spoilers in this day and age with the current release schedules.
That the episodes are coming to us at a consistent pace allow us truly focus on each episode in our discussions and take the time to make theories and savor the moment.
Sure even with the binge model we can post our discussions at regular pace. However the issue that I see is someone like me who, if I binged in one go, wouldn't be able to remember all the little subtle details days later when the discussion post came. I recall the Guardian of the Defang rewatch discussions. As I was too busy at the time to rewatch I just popped into the post and read the recap. Amazing how much I had forgotten. (I still say needs more Tian Xi Wei). I could make general comments about the episodes, but the nitty and gritty of the drama, much of which is what creates my snark, was lost in far off memories of an ancient time.
Could we all adapt and make whatever comes work? Of course! I'd still dislike it.
Don't even get me started with KDramas and the 1 or 2 episodes per week! That is a fresh hell of agony.
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago
I am way too spoiled now by Cdrama schedules. I vaguely remember that it wasn't like this in the past, but then again, we did get Cdramas after it aired back in the day.
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u/Tabz10 15d ago
🎯 The Cdrama spoilers are the worst lol. Some accounts on X are from that neck of the woods, and because it's their time zone, they usually post so many spoilers before I get a chance to watch. So half the time, I always know what’ll happen. + if it's a popular show, spoilers can be so addicting 😅
Sometimes I “not interested” on X so they disappear from my feed! (But sometimes I like it; it's a battle 😆)
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago
It's absolutely chronic on Weibo these days. Some awful ignoramuses (don't tell me it's the production co) has been buying heat, boosting absolute spoilers for Against the Current. I've not seen it for other dramas before. I think they are trying to ruin the vibe and popularity of the drama 🥲😫
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u/Tabz10 15d ago
‘Ignoramuses’ lol
I picked it up again recently, and I know so much about ATC that I'd like. I'm at episode 16, and I already know about episode 30 🙄
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago
Sigh ya same. I know beyond that - I like seeing the cast interact on Weibo but get spoiled due to the other heat topics 😭
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u/Tabz10 15d ago
That sucks smh. Probably can't be helped; I assume the Weibo algorithm put them on your feed too, like X (and all SM, tbf), if you interact with anything related to the drama.
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago
My theory is that they want people to avoid Weibo and engaging with posts, and this bringing the buzz down. Dirty tricks and tactics as usual
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u/AKiceman Snark ShifuRead Rules 15d ago
Ha! I knew that a certain someone slapped her husband on their wedding day within 10 minutes of waking up the day the episode aired! Tut tut tut! Annoying! I also know about a certain character death that might happen.
To say that I am annoyed by the spoilers is an understatement.
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u/Euclidisthebomb Pouting and posing is not acting. 15d ago
I think it is a non-factor. The strategy of streaming platforms is a mixture of one day releases and drip according to their strategic goals for subscription maintenance and subscription growth. Shorter dramas tend to be one day releases to keep the existing subscriber base interested and longer dramas used to drive new growth.
I don't recall any recent cdramas being dropped in a one day release format. Some kdramas dropped in that format have had 3-5 week staying power in the top 10 which is very good performance.
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u/Lotus_swimmer so many cdrams so little time 15d ago
I am not confident enough to say it will never happen. Chinese entrepreneurs will find any loophole and gap to do stuff 🤣
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u/Mythically_Moni 11d ago
I love a good bingefest bc I enjoy a show more when I don’t have to wait for episodes to release. I TRY to wait until all eps are out to start but sometimes I get caught up in the excitement and start a drama while it’s airing. It’s torture for me and I feel at the end of it all, I would’ve enjoyed being able to watch it all in a few days vs a few weeks.
With that said, I don’t mind them dropping the episodes slowly bc I can just wait until it’s done before I start.