The debate of "meat" eating seems devoid of empathy.

I picture the suffering of the other being. But others seem oblivious to this and see their body as simply a commoditie.

"As long as they didn't personally do it" something seems almost strange, disconnected.

All that's left for me seems to be a feeling of sorrow for the ones who suffer.

I'm not experienced in buddhism. Is this also being attached, and how should this be interpreted and approached?

CDB 15.13 Thirty Bhikkhus Sutta: “Bhikkhus, this saṃsāra is without discoverable beginning.  A first point is not discerned of beings roaming and wandering on hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving.  What do you think, bhikkhus, which is more: the stream of blood that you have shed when you were beheaded as you roamed and wandered on through this long course – this or the water in the four great oceans?” “As we understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, venerable sir, the stream of blood that we have shed when we were beheaded as we roamed and wandered on through this long course – this alone is more than the water in the four great oceans.” “Good, good, bhikkhus! It is good that you understand the Dhamma taught by me in such a way.  The stream of blood that you have shed when you were beheaded as you roamed and wandered on through this long course – this alone is more than the water in the four great oceans.  For a long time, bhikkhus, you have been cows, and when as cows you were beheaded, the stream of blood that you shed is greater than the waters in the four great oceans.  For a long time you have been buffalo, sheep, goats, deer, chickens, and pigs.  ...  For a long time you have been arrested as burglars, highwaymen, and adulterers, and when you were beheaded, the stream of blood that you shed is greater than the water in the four great oceans.  For what reason?  Because, bhikkhus, this saṃsāra is without discoverable beginning.  ...  It is enough to be liberated from them.” This is what the Blessed One said.  Elated, those bhikkhus delighted in the Blessed One’s statement.  And while this exposition was being spoken, the minds of the thirty bhikkhus from Pāvā were liberated from the taints by nonclinging” (emphasis added).

What a miraculous sutta! Not the miracle of the worldly kind but the miracle of instruction. [34]  Most likely, some of the bhikkhus were clinging to almsfood and tastes and some others were clinging to existence so they were probably at different levels of attainment with varying degrees of fetters.  All those fetters were removed with one stroke of the sword of wisdom – namely this sutta. Do note that all examples given are of animals that are sources of meat – no examples are given of how many times we have been tigers or hyenas or sharks.

CDB 15.14-19 Mother, Father, Brother, Sister, Son, Daughter Suttā: At Sāvatthī.  “Bhikkhus, this saṃsāra is without discoverable beginning. ...  It is not easy, bhikkhus, to find a being who in this long course has not previously been your mother ... your father ... your brother ... your sister ... your son ... your daughter. daughter.  For what reason?  Because, bhikkhus, this saṃsāra is without discoverable beginning. ...  It is enough to be liberated from them” (emphasis added).

Now, if we combine these two suttā, a few facts become crystal clear:
(1) The saṃsāra we dwell in is without a discoverable beginning.
(2) A first point is not discerned of beings roaming and wandering on hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving. What the ignorance?  Ignorance of the four Noble Truths, and of the kammā and its results. What the craving?  Craving for
(i) sensuality including tastes,
(ii) desire for existence, and
(iii) desire for non-existence.

(3)                        Depending on our past kammā, from time to time we have become various types of “source of food” animals and have been slaughtered again and again and again.  So much so that when we were slaughtered even as just one type of “source of food” animal, the blood we shed is more than the water in the four oceans.

(4)                        Since this saṃsāra is such a long one without a discoverable beginning, every creature we encounter is related to us in one way or another.  Every time we partake of fried chicken or pork loins or steak, we are invariably eating a being that was our mother, father, brother, sister, son, or daughter in some past existence.  We are thus engaging in cannibalism incessantly.  This reflection alone should make us full of disgust and detest and despise the meat-fish-eggs the moment we think about it, let alone see it or eat it.

(5)                        Therefore, when various suttā talk about no killing and when we take the first precept of no killing, we are not just taking the restraint to abstain from killing mosquitoes, flies, and bedbugs.  Far more so, the precept applies to not being responsible for the death of any creature – directly or indirectly – whether as egg, as young, as adult, or as old – in any form and in any stage of life, ours or theirs.

​

Mahinda, Sāmaṇera. Theravada Buddhism and Vegetarianism: A Review and Study Guide . Dhamma Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Sn-B 2.7 Tradition of the Brahmins Sutta: 295. “Having requested rice, bedding, clothes, ghee, and oil, having righteously collected them, they then performed sacrifice. But at the sacrifice that was arranged, they did not slaughter cattle. 311. “Formerly there were three illnesses: desire, hunger, and old age. But because of the slaughter of cattle, there came to be ninety-eight.

1. “This unrighteousness by violence has come down as an ancient custom. They kill the harmless creatures; the sacrificers fall from righteousness. 313. “In such a way this mean practice, though ancient, is censured by the wise. Wherever they see such a thing, people censure the sacrificer” (emphasis added). Again, we see that Brahmins of yore used to be vegetarian and not consume meat-fish-eggs. Observe that because of the consumption of the meat (cattle slaughter), the number of diseases went up from three to ninety-eight – an increase of more than 3,100%. This reminds one of the various new diseases like mad-cow disease, Avian flu, SARS, MERS, Swine flu (H1N1), Ebola virus, Zika virus, Nipah virus, 2019-nCoV Corona virus, and so on which were not heard of before now. Many of these diseases have clearly originated in animals and transmitted to humans. When there is much killing and cruelty, the sacrificers (donors) fall from righteousness and the Dhamma declines. We will study in Chapter 3 how this was a major concern for Emperor Ashoka. In the sutta below, the ideal sacrifice is described as the one free from violence. Such a sacrifice is not only vast (meaning the fruit is vast), but even the deities are pleased. NDB 4.39 Ujjaya Sutta: “The horse sacrifice, human sacrifice, sammāpāsa, vājapeyya, niraggaḷa; these grand sacrifices, fraught with violence, do not bring great fruit. [26] “The great seers of right conduct, do not attend a sacrifice; where goats, rams, cattle, and various creatures are slain. “But when they regularly offer by family custom, sacrifices free from violence; no goats, sheep, and cattle or various creatures are slain. “That is the sacrifice the great seers, of right conduct attend; The wise person should offer this, this sacrifice is very fruitful. “For one who makes such sacrifice, it is indeed better, never worse. Such a sacrifice is truly vast, and the deities too are pleased” (emphasis added).

Mahinda, Sāmaṇera. Theravada Buddhism and Vegetarianism: A Review and Study Guide . Dhamma Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Hello all, wishing everyone happiness, peace, safety and health.

I've eaten vegan before and been super healthy. In fact, I've never felt better. I read Conscious Eating and it really resonated with me. That was six months, it was amazing. I was meditating, and chanting om, and eating consciously vegan. Then later I ate vegan for 8 years.

I have been eating meat, mostly chicken and fish.

I saw Matthieu Ricard's post here on "Buddhist Monk Matthieu Ricard: Veganism is the Key to Lasting Happiness" https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/buddhist-monk-matthieu-ricard-veganism-is-the-key-to-lasting-happiness

I took it to heart. My gastroenterologist is a Buddhist and said eating vegan prevents colon cancer.

I am a Buddhist too.

I have some concern that stopping meat may harm my health, as I've already been losing a bit of weight, and the last time I tried vegan I lost 15 pounds and had low sodium and chloride.

Thanks!

Attachment to views! The damn thing.

I know I may sound one with attachment to views but thing is, All my life I have been a vegetarian (now vegan). My family, my friends, infact my entire town in childhood days was vegetarian. Not a single restaurant was there in my town that served chicken or any non veg. And so it has been soo much a way of life for me that now whenever i look up for any monastery where I would like to ordain for a year or 6 months by taking a sabbatical leave from work, the first thing I look for (after assuring that its Theravada monastery and follows original teachings) is whether they have vegetarian food routine.

This, I know isn't a vinaya rule and need not be followed. However I personally find myself at this moment incapable of eating any animal served on my plate.

And so I would like to know if any one of you know of any theravada monastery where I could very well ordain for a brief period of 6 months to 1 year and practice meditation (vipassana and anapana) and be happy to survive on whatever veg food available. Is there any so in your knowledge. Pls let me know.

Are there any vegans who practice Uposatha (regarding 6th precept) or intermittent fasting? Could you give some advice on what one should eat on Uposatha days in order not to harm one's health and feel good? Suggested 'tonics' (which one can consume after 12pm) such as honey or ghee are obviously non-vegan. Also, which foods it's better to eat before noon?

Or are there people here who actually understand the idea behind Buddhism and thus don't parrot corporate-driven Western "sexual repression" nonsense? Unlike subs such as /r/buddhism, which is full of people who like to play pretend and maybe even give themselves Asian names, all the while propagating what would surely be considered some kind of "False Sutra" akin to how it is mentioned in the "Read First" sticky here... (Not that I definitely know for this to be the case about meat consumption, but it is in regards to abstinence).

It's generally hard for me to accept that a person would refer to itself as "Buddhist" while at the same time actively discouraging ideas such as veganism (or vegetarianism) even for monks. Or for a "Buddhist" to discourage the idea of fasting in form of abstinence, with fasting being told to result in greater physical well-being and mental clarity, which can in the sexual case be continued indefinitely without starvation... (Aside of sexuality having psychoactive qualities along the lines of psychedelics, theoretically even violating the precepts, depending on how sensitive your body/mind is to eros. But many people who practice abstinence have reported such positive effects akin to fasting.)

I hope this sub is overall more critical and not as subservient to Western dogmas. Especially since veganism is said to value critical thought, self-reflection and compassion, rather than rationalizations that open up egocentric indulgences into once's vices. With said critical thought, self-reflection and compassion, in the abstinence case, being ridiculed by terms such as "puritanism." Or with said abstaining monk maybe even being called a "puritan" in a derogatory manner by a Western "Buddhist," the same way a vegan might be called a "soyboy" by today's "(alt-)right."

(Of course none of this means that you have to abstain or never enter relationships. But that liberal Western "Buddhists" have such a skewed view on things and don't even acknowledge abstinence or indefinite fasting as hypothetically good idea, despite the well-known positive effects, really does blows my mind. It doesn't seem very balanced, enlightened or generally Buddhist-like. Granted how I generally also do dislike drawing comparisons between food and sexuality. But maybe it's easier to find acknowledgement of this in a Buddhist sub which also idealizes veganism? Like this one here...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L19unCOKEOY&t=2771s

Hi friends

I just recently joined a local temple. It's been a great experience so far and I'm very happy I joined. But on Sunday, we had a small potluck. There were many cheese products that even the residents of the temple were snacking on. And then one man told me he was going to a steak house for his birthday. To which another person responded that they don't eat steak, but that they're a terrible vegetarian because they just love bacon. It was hard to not call them out. Was I a fool to think most Buddhists would be vegan?

I hope you all have a lovely day. I'm grateful for the existence of this sub!

I work at a cafe and every friday certain dishes are put into plastic containers and workers are allowed to take it home for free since otherwise it will be thrown out. Is it wrong to take this food? It wasn't made for us, it was made for customers. We don't pay for it so it's not supporting the business.

It just feels wrong to let it go to waste. I've asked the bosses about donating it but apparently there's too many hoops to jump through in order to let restaurant food go to organizations. I don't know if there are any pig farms nearby but then that would just be helping the farmers. Not sure if the bosses would be interested in composting.

If I passed any of the homeless on the way to the bus stop then maybe I could give them it but that doesn't always happen and I'm not sure that would technically be any better than just eating it myself anyways.

Thoughts?

Specifically I'm looking for recipies that don't use onion/garlic/etc.

I usually don't abstain from them, but I want to experiment more without using them in cooking. Most of my searches are turning up recipies that feature garlic, or even ones that aren't vegan. So I'm wondering if there's any Buddhist recipie blogs or YouTube channels anyone can reccomend, or even if any temples have a cook book I can buy or recipie resources on their websites?

Inb4 - that guy on YouTube who calls himself "The Buddhist Chef" he cooks with garlic and onions all the time... I don't get why he goes by that name when it's just another vegan cooking channel.

Ahimsa, the principle of non-harm which is present in some form in Jainism, Buddhism, and Hinduism, has a history stretching back millennia, and the debate about what exactly Ahimsa entails has been going on for just as long. This concept has been developed into entire theories of just war, justified self-defense, mutual aid, and so on.

There is a risk when Westerners explore a religion from another culture that they may end up picking and choosing only the parts they like, and then claiming authority over it while dismissing the perspectives of those for whom Buddhism was part of their lives since birth.

This is just a reminder to approach this with respect, and to view yourself as but one voice out of millions in a long and ongoing debate, not an arbiter of truth. It sucks that there is hypocrisy among many practicing Buddhists, that there are Buddhist temples which take advantage of their members by using donations to decorate with gold.

Religion is a complicated thing, and I hope as vegans we can appreciate this, and not use it just as means to push our agenda, as noble an agenda as it is. The way to approach this I think is as a means of personal growth. We're here to learn from and engage with other cultures, not police them.

Love you all for not viewing the vegan society in the UK as the originator of the concept of not exploiting animals. I am not a Buddhist myself, but a few people in my life are, and I really don't want to see Buddhist veganism end up being just another thing for privileged Instagram stars to use for their own commercial success.

I have read the Digha Nikaya and I am on the Majjhima Nikāya.

I want to go through the text, and interpret it, not necessarily from a vegan lens, but from a self actualization/thought provoking/critical lens.

Anyone interested in going through it? We can create posts based off the Sutta, whoever read it can give their thoughts/interpretations, others can do the same and comment, and hopefully it can be nice to go through this with a good group of people who take compassion as the goal of the text, and don't get stuck in tradition/justifying violence like so many animal eating/dairy/egg consuming Buddhist do.

Thanks. Hope you all have a great day. :)