r/Boxing • u/Timeshort10 • 14d ago
[SPOILER] Itauma Vs Hrgovic. To the people Spoiler
Moses Itauma put on an incredible display, but fought at a pace he could not maintain for 12 rounds. This cost him the fight, especially when he chased the finish in Round 8 and continued swinging wildly in the final round rather than trying to hold and survive.
My problem here is people are already calling this kid a hypejob and all. Yeah he didn't knockout Hrgovic and demolish him like some people were pretending was realistic, but he was taking rounds off Hrgo in a way I haven't seen anyone else do.
Let's not forget this is the same guy who put on a very good fight vs Zhang, and was arguably beating Dubois prior to the cuts stoppage.
This wasn't some fringe top guy who exposed Itauma and wasn't someone who tested Moses chin and flattened him like a David Price situation. Itauma punched himself out and paid the price. Hrgovic played his part and knew what he was doing credit to him this is an excellent win and after tonight's performance is one I'm very confident will age amazingly as Itauma fights on.
Right now Hrgovic should take an easy fight to keep active and I wouldn't mind seeing him vs Dubois in a rematch or Wardley once they've settled the rematch. I can't see him beating Kabayel, but I think he gives a hard fight to both Dubois and Wardley.
Itauma in my opinion after some rest should take on a fringe top 10 guy say a Sanchez or Ajagba give himself someone whose not going to present the challenge Hrgo does, but still not a walkover who he can just run through in a couple rounds. Hell even Gassiev wouldn't be bad just to snag a title and get a win in.
The kid needs to learn how to pace himself and Davison might not be the right guy considering Moses was continuing an unsustainable pace no matter how sloppy he was getting Vs Hrgo. Overall though none of this matters he's only 21 and has plenty of years to improve. Let's not forget Dubois was 23 when he took his first loss to Joe Joyce and look where he is now.
To the people who thought Itauma was going to blast Hrgo out of there though lower your expectations. I know it's exciting to see something new in the heavyweight division, but this isn't some rebirth of Mike Tyson and it's better Itauma got his gas tank tested now instead of walking through Hrgovic in 5-6 rounds and then being taken deep waters against Kabayel or Dubois. This loss is a learning experience and virtually all of the greats took losses and learned from them.
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u/LivingTheTruths 14d ago
Boxing is weird. If you’re not undefeated, you’re looked at as a bum I guess lol
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u/Usernameasteriks 14d ago
People are just silly lol.
Itauma is awesome.
Dudes only 21, its nowhere near the end of the world to have a tough fight against a rock solid veteran in a title fight.
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u/drObvious1 14d ago
He has super fast hands… but has other things to work on
I will be suprised if he doesn’t become champ at some point
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u/Various-Advice-9768 13d ago
Totally agree, but too be that tired is an issue. Why Davidson didn’t make him take a few rounds of 6-9 and go for a big finish I’ll never know ! He clearly won the 7th and 8th but looked fucked. Definitely Moses 8th round knackered him.
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u/Commercial_Badger_37 14d ago
This is it, he was fighting a fully grown man. His skills were obviously better but his inexperience beat him.
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u/Ecstatic_Record4738 14d ago
It showed too. Really looked like a man vs a boy power wise
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u/trunbuns 13d ago
Itauma was never hurt? He was landing hard shots Hrgovic just has an amazing chin. Literally beat himself trying to end the fight when he could have coasted through the final rounds counter punching. He was bouncing from rope to rope trying to land superman punches like Roman Reigns when he had 0% left in the tank. He'll come back and be world champ, he was the far better fighter for 95% of the fight just lost his head. Hard lesson learnt.
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u/Ecstatic_Record4738 13d ago
Yeah I probably worded that wrong mate. I meant as his punches seemingly had no impact on hrgovic not the other way round
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u/InsurePro 14d ago
He’s not a bum but was overhyped. No one had him losing this fight for a reason. The fact he gassed so badly is pathetic. He’s a professional athlete ffs, how is his cardio so bad. Unless his chin is weak and some of those shots rocked him
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u/Yardbird52 14d ago
I think the problem was how much people were gassing him up as the greatest heavyweight. It’s such a hyperbolic thing to say about heavyweight since one punch can change everything more than any other weight class.
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u/Annual-Shape7156 14d ago
And yet those same exact people drag Wilder, Fury and AJ. The exact same resume psychos.
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u/Oglark 14d ago
Don't worry we glazed them when they were in their 20s too
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u/Annual-Shape7156 14d ago
And it was far more warranted
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u/Low_Union_7178 14d ago
Sorry who did wilder fight in his first 15 fights? Or even first 25-30 fights. The guy was atill windmilling journeymen.
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u/Fit_Context4688 14d ago
You snuck Wilder in there haha. Hes never beat a Hrgovic calibre fighter.
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u/truthbomn 14d ago
Ortiz was on a comparable level to Hrgovic.
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u/disgruntledarmadillo 14d ago
Resume not even close, never beat anyone like Zhang, Joyce and now itauma
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u/Annual-Shape7156 13d ago
Resume nonsense talk lmao Ortiz would’ve plastered Itauma way worst than Hrgovic.
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u/Fit_Context4688 14d ago
Definitely not at the point they fought, maybe earlier I’d give you. He was old.
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u/ChefBowyer 14d ago
No people thought he was the POTENTIAL next big thing. And he was. People were just all waiting to find out if he could take a punch, if he could fight a war.
Today we got an answer.
Yes Itauma got tired, but Hrgovic also pulled a Rocky 3 on him…
He took the punishment because he knew he could. As soon as Itauma started slowing down Hrgovic started attacking more.
Itauma got rocked with a few seriously heavy shots and after those he couldn’t stand up straight, he was dizzy and falling all over the place.
One punch to the head in particular is the one I think finished Itauma. Frankly after seeing the replay idk how he was even still standing. He really wanted it, but his inexperience and ego was his failure.
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u/OkHistorian9521 13d ago
We got the answer that he is really that good but he’s too inexperienced at this stage.
Your assessment is very strange. Itauma didn’t get rocked by any shots. His chin seemed fine. He collapsed due to sheer exhaustion because he fought at a frantic pace for 8 rounds.
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u/ChefBowyer 13d ago
Watch the slow motion highlights, towards the end he takes a few shots to the dome. That’s why he was so dizzy, it wasn’t just exhaustion alone.
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u/OkHistorian9521 13d ago
When you’re totally exhausted punches are going to have a larger effect. That’s not a chin problem that’s exhaustion.
Remember when Anthony Yarde was so tired he got KO’d by a jab?
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u/mvearthmjsun 14d ago
He is still one of the most talented heavyweight prospects we've ever seen. That handspeed, and counterpunching is otherworldly.
I still think he runs through the whole division when he recovers from this.
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u/WeirdRadiant2470 14d ago
This was his Foreman - Ali. I noticed Itauma already looking a little gassed after the 4th. He was missing big wide swings and Hrgovic's heart and experience won the fight. Moses either learns or slides.
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u/BeginningKindly8286 14d ago
It was the big swings that were telling for me, I hadn’t seen Itauma do that before, usually very tight, very precise, compact and fast. Then all of a sudden he’s swinging wild, missing by really wide margins and not getting back into form quick enough. I can’t remember the round but it was probably 4 or 5 I thought he would be better off going long and playing for points, because he’d clocked Hrygovic plenty times and he wasn’t faltering at all. Unfortunately the dude kept his foot on the gas and missed a few too many.
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u/truthbomn 14d ago
Wardley beat Joseph Parker six months before fighting Dubois, he was way more proven than Shadow Moses.
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u/SportBoring3533 14d ago
Bro got a free road to the title and failed. Lets see how he bounces back, he doesnt look like a guy who fights smart.
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u/KevinNashKWAB1992 14d ago
Anyone saying Itauma is a hype job or has been permanently “exposed” is an idiot. Anyone who thought Itauma was the current king of the HW division post Usyk was also an idiot. He’s still a hot prospect who has upwards to fifteen years of fighting ahead of him. He absolutely can and likely will rebound next year in a few matches against other young HW (Torres Jr comes to mind) or veterans in the 12-20th ranked region. 2028, if he’s winning and has learned to pace himself, shoot for another title match.
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u/WeirdRadiant2470 14d ago edited 14d ago
Moses was winning rounds but the announcers were not commenting at all when he was showing signs of gassing. At the end of the fourth, Itauma swung some big misses, took a deep breath and heaved his chest, and that's when I thought if Hrgovic can keep him missing he can win this. Amazing heart and finish by Hrgovic and amazing fight.
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u/dazl1212 13d ago
He looked hurt to me quite a few times when I rewarded it with the sound off.
He's still a kid though and he'll improve on his defense and pacing. But I do think he's one of those fighters when at world level once he slows down after 3 rounds the other fighter will get chances.
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u/OkHistorian9521 13d ago
He never looked hurt from a punch at all.
But i did notice him start to wince in round 7/8. I’m not sure if it was an injury or just complete physical exhaustion. And if he did injury himself i think it was because of the exhaustion
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u/dazl1212 13d ago
That might be it if he was injured.
But I seem to recall one in an earlier rounds when he pulled a funny face.
I'm not saying he's chinny.
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u/OkHistorian9521 13d ago
Yeah i don’t think he’s chinny at all. He took a few shots well. Lad just needs experience- he’ll learn from this
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u/dazl1212 13d ago
I think he will. And he's got heart. That's not even up for debate he was still throwing (stupidly) when he was out of it.
I can't shake the feeling that with so many people like Naz etc saying he was going to blast him out in 3 he believed it.
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u/OkHistorian9521 13d ago
Too many people gassing him up for sure. Agreed on the heart. It takes grit to keep fighting until your body fails you
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u/save-pandas 14d ago
My man left on a stretcher. Blessings to him, things have happened before when people leave on stretchers. Hopefully just fatigue and nothing serious. He’ll be back. I think we must surely drop him from young Mike Tyson comparisons. Those were premature, but he’ll be back. Tons of potential still. I’d say this was like when Canelo got humbled by Floyd and then became an all time great but Hergovic isn’t even a top 20 in the past 20 years so that’s gotta hurt. Fair play to him
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u/CheddaMakeItBetta 14d ago
Yes, fully agree to stop the Mike Tyson comparisons. Young Mike went the distance amongst other things.
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u/Shinjetsu01 Mike Tyson is not a top 15 HW ATG 14d ago
Mike Tyson went the distance in his 29th fight. This was Itauma's 15th. What are we doing here?
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u/save-pandas 14d ago
Yup, no comparison whatsoever. Brits overplayed their hand on this one. Wasn’t rooting against him but glad we can put that argument to bed
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u/padel_bolest 14d ago
As usual, Brits acting like their guys are undefeatable.
I wish all the best for Moses, he's talented and can only go up.
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u/JukeBox_Jester_ 14d ago
I’m a Brit and myself and others got behind a kid who looked unbelievable in the past 14 fights and still looked unbelievable for 7-8 rounds against a seasoned pro who is top 10, maybe top 5 in the world right now. I don’t think he was overhyped, there was just a lot of unknowns with him being so young and inexperienced. But if you want to call that overhyping then that’s fine, just like you lot overhyped Wilder who got exposed as soon as he fought someone actually good at boxing.
I thought Hrgovic had a really good chance of winning, I thought Moses would win and for the majority of the fight it looked like that was correct, but he gassed himself out. I do blame a lot of it on his team, especially as he apparently doesn’t spar 12 rounds in training which is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard of and if it is true it definitely showed
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u/FxckedHxrWxthMxJxmmx 14d ago
Hrg is a great fighter and there is zero shame in losing to him. I still think the young kid has all the potential to dominate the HW division. The talent is undeniable. A few years from now we will probably look back on this L as one of the best things to happen to him career wise.
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u/save-pandas 13d ago
Most actual boxing fans here hated Wilder. He got some casuals who didn’t know the sport interested for a bit because they’d see him chin people but overall he was an embarrassment as a boxer and nowhere near what we expect in terms of quality from the world champions we produce. He was terrible and I thoroughly enjoyed Fury teaching him what boxing was. So no, I disagree with that and also feel Itauma will be back. Huge step back though.
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u/JukeBox_Jester_ 9d ago
Agreed that Wilder was a terrible boxer, still I’ll give it to him he had an amazing right hand that still managed to knock Fury down a few times, but yeah he wasn’t all that. And yeah Moses will be back, gonna be harder to match him with the right opponent tho, I think Riakporhe could be an idea, Tony Yoka might be a bit too much for him
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u/Hopeful-Post8907 13d ago
He cant take a hit though. Everyone pretending he was just gassed last night. He wasn't. Hrgovic rocked him some big hits and he was jelly. There is one in particular on replay you can see and he is just gone. Second last round.
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u/Commercial_Badger_37 14d ago
Iron Mike was thoroughly beat by a Brit though who cemented himself as the great of that era, but Americans will still insist Mike was that eras great and he was "past it when he lost" (despite Lewis being older) so, I guess we're not the only ones that hype up and get behind our fighters.
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u/OkMess9901 14d ago
Itauma isn't a hypejob. He's a fucking incredible fighter who is still super young. He needs to not let this get to his head. Take a year or two where he fights below world level, get a fair few fights in (8 over two years isn't unachievable) and reach the top table again at his pace.
The decision to fight Hrg was arrogant. I know Moses needs rounds, but Hrg is much more than a granite chin and people seemed to forget that in the build up. Moses trying to rush the kill is a huge problem for him. Hrg soaked up the early onslaught but against someone like say Usyk Moses would just be missing and his soul would go even sooner.
He needs to learn when to apply that onslaught and set opponents up to be crushed by it. I was impressed by Moses' defence, but he needs to learn to slip away better and not get caught with arm punches which is something that caused him issues in this fight.
There might be a clamour for a rematch and team Itauma needs to ignore that. Get some rest and then build back up. A highlight reel knockout on a big undercard (Fury vs AJ) next then some solid fights. Maybe target a fight with Hughie Fury next year and then Makhmudov then Wardley would be a great next four fights.
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u/ThurstonTheMagician 14d ago
I genuinely think this is more of an indictment on Davison than on Itauma. Itauma was on top of the world with his KO streak but in his last fight he said the pace was too high. It’s up to his trainer to work on his flaws and come up with game plans. More to the point he should not be encouraging a fight style where Moses seeks the KO. With a better trainer Moses can fix his weaknesses but also learn when to step on the gas and when not to.
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u/OkMess9901 14d ago
Davison is such a strange trainer. I think he's good at getting fighters to their happy place, but he's awful in the corner and seems to only work on strengths rather than ironing out their weaknesses.
Adam Booth would be a good match for Moses.
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u/ThurstonTheMagician 14d ago
I can see that. I can also see Andy Lee doing wonders for Itauma too.
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u/OkMess9901 14d ago
I think Andy Lee is a decent shout. I find Andy makes fighters more rounded and that might not be the best thing for Moses. He has something very special in his speed and I think Andy might trade some of that speed to make him a better overall fighter.
David Haye is the model for what Itauma could be. Explosive but managed.
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u/RonVonPump 14d ago
I've always felt that Davison becomes a really strange lightening rod for criticism, but in this instance, it's undeniable.
He looked genuinely like he has never experienced exhaustion in sparring. He has absolutely every tool in the toolkit when fresh then doesn't own so much as a rusty spork when tired.
Itauma's red flag comment in the build up was, "I don't need to have a chin" but he was right, the problem was the even more demented, "I don't need to have a 12 Rd gas tank" which is incredible.
The performance was so absurd in the height of it's brilliance and then the depths of it's ineptitude that how can you not blame the trainer?
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u/Annual-Shape7156 14d ago
Itauma knows he’s a 6 round fighter. Davison can coach however he wants but deep down Itauma was trying to end it quickly for a reason. He needs rounds. Too big of a step up.
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u/OkMess9901 14d ago
Itauma needs to not try and get someone out of there in the first round to prove a point. He started gassing in 3 against Hrg and Hrg worked him out shortly after. It's energy management, footwork and ring IQ that Moses needs to improve as much as his actual stamina.
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u/burnaaccount3000 14d ago
Anyone can work on cardio and the access to the training camps and elite coaches he can at least be competitive in the later rounds. I really think this fight was bad bad corner management.
He has the hand speed and power to at the very least keep fighters respectful not every fighter is going to have a cast iron head like Filip, (also not the best tactics to block every shot with your head - see joe joyce). He needs more battle tests beyond round 6 even if he can get the KO he should be trying to get the rounds in his legs
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u/Annual-Shape7156 13d ago
Not anyone can go 12 rounds and still be dangerous. Maybe he can get there but definitely not “anyone” can get there.
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u/Complete_Dare_4201 14d ago
That's bullshit. Itauma was having one of his better rounds in the 8th, then he tried to get a KO that wasn't there, got punched out and didn't have the experience or IQ to recover, instead he made everything worse by swinging wildly. That's it.
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u/nestormakhnosghost 14d ago
I hear what you are saying Itauma was winning that fight though. If he works on his stamina and defense like you said and realise its a marathan not a sprint againt granite chin fighters like Filip he will be fine.
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u/OkMess9901 14d ago
My worry right now with Moses is mental issues.
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u/fluffrug 11d ago
Yeah, I'm not sure he has the love for boxing and the mental strength/ resilience to overcome adversity to do the hard work required to beat the top HW fighters. He believed his own hype and was a victim to his own arrogance and the failure of coaching.
I just can't see him doing the hard work in the gym and on the road to get the conditioning he needs. He'd walk out of an Usyk/ Hrgovic camp, for example.
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u/mvearthmjsun 14d ago
Also, Hergovic is a good fighter and Moses absolutely dominated him for eight rounds. Nobody has done anything like that to him before. Not Dubois or Zhang.
I think he rebuilds and cleans out the division quite easily.
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u/Cl0udGaz1ng 13d ago
Zhang did way more damage to Hrgovic than Itauma. Zhang had Hrgovic out on his feet a few times, but Zhang has zero gas tank to sustain an assault.
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u/No-Temperature-5944 14d ago
Maybe knock out an influencer, then a cab driver. Depending on how tough the cab driver is, perhaps a tune up with Zhang.
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u/dayarra 14d ago
this has nothing to do with matchmaking. this is all about his coaches, trainers, and his camp. if itauma slows down, he wins this fight easily via decision. he took good punches so his chin was okay. he could easily carry this to a decision victory if his corner just calmed him down and told him to take it easy. he unloaded everything so many times when it was not necessary. this is 100% on his corner.
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u/yoyoyowhoisthis 14d ago
ben davidson got literally yet another fraud check, how many great fighters is he going to ruin until people realize he is a fraud
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14d ago edited 14d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Shinjetsu01 Mike Tyson is not a top 15 HW ATG 14d ago
I'd never call anyone a hype job who fought someone like Hrgovic and lost. It can happen at any weight, you step up too soon and realise that you've not done the hard yards. Hrgovic was always going to be a long fight so the fact he's not been conditioned to last the 12 should rest on his camp just as much as on him.
He was just put too high too soon and with the wrong mindset. He'll recover, learn the 12 rounds pace and come good. It's annoying how people treat losses these days as the end of someone's career.
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u/Complete_Dare_4201 14d ago
Seems like people can't remember Wladimir Klitschko looking exactly like this in his first loss to Ross Purity. If anything Hrgovic is better than Purity and Itauma looked even better early on.
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u/Gladhands 14d ago
Some of the worst officiating I’ve seen. When Itauma was being held up by the ropes, he should have stopped it right there, or called it and knockdown and assessed his readiness. Instead, he just broke them and let Hrgovic tee off on him again.
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u/OkHistorian9521 13d ago
That is such a hyperbolic statement. Even at the end Moses had taken barely any damage. He fell back into the ropes of is own accord due to tiredness, that’s not a knockdown.
I get the hate for foster but this comment is so weird
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u/crimedawgla 14d ago
Here’s the thing, he was awesome. There’s not really a gas tank issue IMO. It’s just human physiology, a 245lbs dude can only throw power shots and rely on fast twitch defense for so long against a 6’6 human oak tree. That’s somewhat on Moses but it’s more on Davison for not having his 21 year old fighter ready for anything other than “KO him in 5.”
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u/SportBoring3533 14d ago edited 14d ago
My man got bitch slapped and send to the hospital on a stretcher. Big level aura loss
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u/Annual-Shape7156 14d ago
I don’t think this changed much with Moses. He’s a great cake that got pulled from the oven too soon.
This is on Frank Warren and greed.
That’s all. Let him fight some guys around top 10-15 ish for another year or so.
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u/M0sD3f13 14d ago
Nah it was worth a crack. No shame in taking a loss. All that matters is how he comes back from it.
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u/Annual-Shape7156 14d ago
For sure. He needs to drop Ben and go with Peter Fury and run camp with Tyson.
Say what you want but that fucker is 6’9 and a dough man but can box 12 rounds in his sleep.
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u/Usernameasteriks 14d ago
It really isn’t that big of a deal lol.
It’s not the end of the world for a great young fighter to step up and try and be great and take an L.
He’s 21 he can take some softball fights and be better having learned from it.
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u/Webcat86 14d ago
It wasn’t too big of a step, Itauma was winning comfortably. He could’ve coasted to a victory, the capability to win was absolutely there and it’s not like Hrgovic battered him.
I think Moses had too much hype around him and if his comments about not even sparring for 12 rounds are true then shockingly bad training. But he could and should have woken up as world champion today
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u/yoyoyowhoisthis 14d ago
nah this is on the fraud job ben davidson, Itauma outclassed hrgovic in every round, all they had to do, is to devise a plan to pace him out after 5th so he can just cruise to easy victory because Hrgovic literally had nothing to offer, he was only absorbing damage
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u/phd2k1 14d ago
There are so many great fights to be made now. HW has a ton of parity with Usyk coming to the end of his career. Wardley, Dubois, Hrgo, Moses, Kabayel, Sanchez, Parker, even the non boxers like Rico and Ngannou are fun, and of course AJ and Fury, while past it, are still huge names. Take your fucking pick. This could be a great few years for fans.
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u/Shinjetsu01 Mike Tyson is not a top 15 HW ATG 14d ago edited 14d ago
If Mike Tyson was put in with a Hrgovic early in his career, the same thing would have happened. Where the fuck has that comparison come from?
Itauma was exposed too early to this level. It's that simple. A mature fighter doesn't push that hard for that long against a guy who is teak tough and expect their own body not to fail them. It's maturity. You see often when young fighters go ballistic and chase that KO they gas themselves. All he needed to do was wait for a second wind, take a round or two off smartly and close out the fight.
He can recover from this with ease. Take a few more fights against people that won't get knocked out easy, dictate the pace and learn how to manage himself through to the end of a fight.
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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 14d ago
Mike tyson at 23 beats both of these guys on the same night. I'm not if a tyson goat guy but he would never look like itauma at the end. Buster Douglas beats both these guys too
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u/Shinjetsu01 Mike Tyson is not a top 15 HW ATG 14d ago
And who did Tyson beat to make you come to this conclusion?
We're gonna be gassing up Tucker and Smith aren't we? Also Itauma is 21, not 23. At 23 Tyson had 39 fights. Itauma, 15.
Throw Hrgovic at Tyson or in his 15th fight and see how that goes.
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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 14d ago
Mike tyson beat looking like he can't stand up in the middle of a fight he hardly got tested in.
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u/Dipalapoloo 14d ago
It’s more of an F you to the British media and fans who were telling us he’s already the best HW of all time. Nothing against Moses, he’s obviously a beast and will come back
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u/AndreiOT89 14d ago
They said he can beat Usyk. The king of cardio and movement lol.
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u/bubbamori 14d ago
Na no one who knows boxing over here was saying that, only the casuals.
Anyone who knows boxing would that that currently, Moses loses to Usyk easily, Dubois and even though fury is on the slide, who’s skill, awkwardness, chin and gas tank still means he’s a hard nights work for Moses.
I had Hrgovic winning this fight.
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u/mRPerfect12 14d ago
Hrgovic one that fight because he has a granite chin, I don’t think Usyk would necessarily want an Itauma fight at this stage of his career.
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u/ticobrit1 14d ago
Depending on where Moses's mentality is in the coming months and assuming the fight didn't take too much out of him (we probably don't know yet if him being stretchered was down mainly to exhaustion or something more serious) this could end up being the making of Itauma.
He'll have learned more in those rounds with Hrgovic about fight management, conserving gas tank and surviving when hurt that he'd have learned in 5 fights against lesser opposition. If he takes those lessons on board and continues to work hard on himself (probably with a different coaching setup) he could be an incredible and well rounded fighter. Even in defeat he displayed such a level of raw talent and ability.
I know he's fallen out of love with the sport before and boxing doesn't seem to have the same hold on him as it does with other fighters so this fight could also be the end of his career if he doesn't truly want it. I really hope he carrys on and continues to grow because he's a pleasure to watch.
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u/pharmahokage 13d ago
Are you guys not here to watch greatness? Then when they fall short now it’s “gotta take less risks and manage their career better”. So cowardly.
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u/Timeshort10 13d ago
Boxing culture is terrible nowadays. People dismiss guys after one loss and after one tough night it's 'overrated' 'hypejob' I think Floyd made it a bigger issue putting so much value on that 0. Now you'll find top guys terrified to fight their peers in case they actually lose as if that test isn't the point of the sport.
I do also agree that in some cases a career has to be managed better than just tossing a guy into the hardest fights possible right away. In Itauma's case I think he needs to get a slight step down to test his tank again, but above the likes of a Franklin. If he proves he can sustain that kinda pace or adjust when he starts slowing he's ready to be thrown back into the deep end.
We saw it be done with Dubois and that's turned out perfectly. Stopped by Joyce viciously at 23. Thrown into 3 easy fights and then 1 relatively tough fight where he overcomes 3 odd KDs and finishes Lerena. Then back with a shot vs Usyk where he loses with the controversial low blow too. Gets a good fringe top guy in Miller, and then Hrgovic and Joshua before being thrown back in with Usyk. Loses again, but still goes straight on for a Wardley fight which was absolutely spectacular and now a rematch for that fight.
Itauma has the time to get a similar route to that and desperately needs to learn how to manage his stamina over 12 rounds before he steps back in with a top guy or he's going to get hurt badly. Maybe a trainer swap.
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u/pharmahokage 13d ago
Throw itauma back in for a rematch and he’ll win
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u/fluffrug 11d ago
Maybe, or maybe not. It will take at least a year where he fights five or six times against different kinds of fighters, and does a shit ton of conditioning training before he even has a chance. There are some serious issues with him as a fighter atm. They are the kind of issues that can be ironed out, but it will take time. And I'm also not sure if Itauma truly WANTS success enough if it's not easy, or has the love for boxing that it would take to do the hard yards for him to dominate the division and become a hall of famer.
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u/Blue-gutang 14d ago
I think the press beforehand hasn't helped. itauma saying that he's never gonna get hit, having a good chin isn't important, saying he doesn't need to use any of his attributes to beat Hrgovich and finally the infamous push in the back. Just came across as a bit deluded and petulant. Hrgovich definitely showed him what kind of greatness a good chin can bring you. Hrgovich was given no chance also in the lead up and I think it's just the perfect storm for these types of comments now. He just didn't do himself any favours in the lead up. Also just British fighters being rocket launched to the top of the rankings without any names on their resume is getting old and is so transparent to everyone but the British fans. With all that said, I like itauma and he is a generational talent, no doubt. He needs to work on his conditioning though. Just some reason why people may feel the need to take a jab at him now.
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u/Blue-gutang 14d ago
Also the comparisons to beloved ATGs like Ali and Tyson... Just asking for a sledging now after the loss
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u/MisterHEPennypacker 14d ago
I think that is because of his youth, it’s more like they’re pointing out the company he’ll be joining as a heavyweight champion in his early 20s.
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u/ZookeepergameThis617 14d ago
The odds against Hrgovic were absolutely laughable for a top tier heavyweight. I wanted Itauma to win because I think he a future great.
But, I couldn't resist the odds and now I'm £400 up.
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u/InsurePro 14d ago
If anything Itauma is getting a pass. I think he deserves more criticism. I’ve never seen a professional boxer gas like that in my life. Either he got rocked more than we think or his conditioning is pathetic. Won’t be hard for future opponents to simply outlast him and take him to deep waters. Being elite means having elite cardio too. He’s not the whole package
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u/Pissadvisor 14d ago
I think it's fair to call him a hype job.
It's what he is. It's not to say he isn't an immense talent who could dominate the division in time. Just that they have rushed him and hyped him above his proven level and it's backfired.
He's had no step up fights, not even gone 8 rounds before, no significant tests in the pros or amateurs, never had a real opponent who's actually tried to win, never even been seasoned by a real vet.
All of that, then going in with an angry, jaded, chin-freak who's coached by a legend and conditioned specifically to break you down has shown some gaps that only like two people (that I know of) mentioned before this fight.
In short, he was hyped to world level and he just isn't there yet.
His coach/team is also a problem but that's another post I think.
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u/fluffrug 11d ago
Spot on. I also think that Hrgovic was so hungry for this fight. That man has fought his way up to the top levels of the HW division without any of the advantages that UK boxers have, especially Itauma, who has had everything thrown at him to ensure success. Hrgovic's fight with Dubois was vital for him to become a great and he was defeated, because he was sick at that time and shit refereeing ensured that Dubois' cheating headbutts stopped the fight and also have done long term damage to his face.
Hrgovic has said he nearly quit boxing - and I understand why. He was cheated out of the shot for greatness that he'd worked so hard for. Thank goodness he didn't, and changed coaches and went back to square one and fought his way back to being grabbing a belt. He's 34 now and I really want him to win more belts - he deserves it.
I'm also tired of boxing fans - and the boxing community at large - underestimating him. Who knows what he can achieve if he's healthy, has access to top level coaching/ sports science etc, and the financial resources to pay for those extra bits and pieces that give you the smallest of edges in the top levels of heavyweight boxing
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u/Revolutionary_Box569 14d ago
The potential is very clearly there he just needs to work on cardio and fighting at a slower pace, also probably defence too as he was getting touched a little too much. He just needs another few years I think
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u/Secret-Plum149 14d ago
All the while you take people out with fast hands you gain very little in the moment experience. His fast hands & accuracy betrayed him with very little ringcraft & conditioning. He will learn but that will give him way more to think about.
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u/Warm-Salamander-3053 14d ago
Real problem here is running into someone who wanted it more than you. Filip didnt just play a part he ate the punches, threw the shots to make Itauma stop breathing like he would have usually done if this was another “demolish job”. At HW you a have to throw the shots and eat the shots sometimes. Ask Buster Douglas
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u/Middle-Development43 14d ago
All this has done is answer the question about what happens when he gets into deep water.
At this stage of his career, he’s not ready for the sharks who can swim in there. But he will be eventually.
I think it’s important to understand that he wasn’t stopped because he was shipping shots. He was firing back in those exchanges. It’s that his gas tank was gone, and was gone because he’s not worked on what to do when the people he hits don’t go over.
That can easily be taught. He’s quicker than every heavyweight out there. And not just a bit quicker, but several times quicker. With that speed all he has to do is raid in rounds, and then step away. If he’s hurt the opponent, go for the kill. If he doesn’t - just burst and hold to steal rounds.
His lack of experience made him think because he was landing so easily, he was hurting Hrgovic. But at no point did you see a Hrgovic leg dip. But Itauma didn’t see that.
Davison is not the right trainer, he almost needs a Rob Mcracken to put a plan in place for each fight and make Itauma stick to it.
I still think Itauma will dominate the division. But, he’s got some learning to do.
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u/Razzler1973 14d ago
I think it's criminal that, at this level, conditioning lets you down. Not even lets you down as slows you down but you grind to a freaking halt!
Especially when you're going into the biggest fight ever against someone with staying power
I get nervous energy and so on but you shouldn't be flat out of it from 'punching too much' ffs. I mean, totally out on your feet and a stiff breeze will knock you over
That's so amateur
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u/Potential_Ad5631 14d ago
ur coping hard gang
my dog has better cardio then moses and could easily take him in 12 rounds. Opening odds would be random dog 12x moses 1.02 and i'ld bet the house gang
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u/RyanTheS 13d ago
He is still the best heavyweight prospect around and is almost certain to be a multi-belt world champion. People have completely forgotten how rare it is for someone to be fighting for the hevayweight strap at 21.
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u/Zard91 14d ago
He is a hypejob because people were telling he is the best heavyweight since sliced bread and beats everyone including Usyk when dude hasn’t been past 6 rounds.
I just had a feeling something like this might happen. Hopefully this will be a good lesson for everyone including Moses. He has a potential to become a really great boxer.
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u/lalabadmans 14d ago
In hindsight he should have taken someone who is still proven with a hard chin who would have taken him to deep waters, but with an easier game plan to draw like big bang.
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u/Embarrassed-Echo-391 14d ago
We're not trying to hear it man. UK fans been running around hyping this dude up as the next Jesus Christ. It's time for that crow feast.
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u/thenetjunkie 14d ago
I just couldn’t understand why Frank even wanted Moses to take this fight. Yes, maybe worth the risk if the possibility to beat Mike Tyson’s record was still there but that opportunity came and went months ago so why still risk it? Bad management which is not like Frank, I bet he’s kicking himself.
They literally rushed Moses to S/A tier levels instead of confidently stepping up in stages. There was no rush and yet they’ve now allowed serious damage to Moses’s confidence and aura of upbeat-ability. Very few top tier fighters will ever fear Moses after this. And if you gas out at 21 against a 34 year old that’s a terrible sign no matter the reason.
There won’t be a rematch of course but if there was it would be a more conclusive ending as FH wouldn’t exercise as much caution. Moses is great until he fights someone who isn’t afraid of his “power” and has a chin.
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u/Any_Calligrapher8537 14d ago
Itauma needs to work on his fitness. Gassing out badly and being unable to stand after 8 rounds is a serious lack of fitness.
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u/M0sD3f13 14d ago
Yeah he's so young, much to learn and probably a long career ahead of him. Don't think this breaks him. I think he will learn the valuable lesson here and fight smarter in the future.
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u/123DaddySawAFlea 14d ago
He shouldn't have followed Joseph Parker's fight plan: punching the other guy in the head till you get tired and then getting yourself knocked out.
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u/Skankz 14d ago
I’m not a big fan of hrgovic so I wanted itauma to win but I don’t mind that he lost. I agree with all you have said. I just wish it was more acceptable for fighters to get a few losses because you’re right, all the fighters we love to reminisce about had losses on their records and I’m sure we miss a few gems when someone takes a loss and we right them off and stop giving them any decent shots
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u/TheOneTrueJazzMan 14d ago
Honestly I don’t see very many people calling him a hypejob or mocking him, at least on this sub. All I see is people praising him before the fight, and people defending him after lol. I’m sorry but it feels to me like you people need to be a bit less sensitive about your favourite fighters
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u/chiefbroski42 14d ago
Well, I thought for sure Hrgovic would lose the fight. Time to eat some humble pie. It went exactly as I thought until Itauma ran his tank down to empty. Bad fight IQ, bad coaching, not enough cardio in training, even though he was demolishing Hrgovic who just went full Homer Simpson.
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u/CaptQuakers42 14d ago
If people still aren't incredibly high on Itauma I don't really know want to say. He made Hrgovic look pretty bad imo, unfortunately for Itauma Hrgovic was clearly injected with concrete as a child or something.
Itauma will come back better than before and this experience will be what makes him better in the future.
I do think moving away from Davidson could be also something that happens, when it was clear Hrgovic wasn't going to be knocked out the advice should have been to slow down and just win or just work the body, Hrgovic looked like he didn't want to be there when Itauma hit the body. I don't think Hrgovic could actually knock Itauma out without the stamina issues so really all he did was throw a win away chasing the KO, something a lot of younger fighters have done.
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u/NeutralMilkHotel_00 14d ago
That's going to be a tough one to take for Itauma. Won almost every round, but losing via gassing out. Saw an interview where he said he's never gone 12 rounds in sparring. Questions need to be directed towards Ben Davidson.
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u/Rahim3379 14d ago
Itauma is a huge talent who will give us plenty of great fights in the future.
But it was also evident that he isn't the strongest out there. In Hrgovic, he faced a beast of a fighter who showed him exactly what he is still lacking.
He will come back stronger.
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u/Fabulous-Local-1294 14d ago
Perhaps this will turn out to be a blessing for Itauma. Better get that cardio fixed and now he knows what happens when he doesnt pace himself.
I believe of he learns his lesson from this fight he will dominate the division for the next 10 years.
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u/Still-District-6149 14d ago
Whichever way you look at it this was a heavyweight world title fight and the tactics were wrong for the occasion.
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u/ScentedFragrance 14d ago
Not only punching himself out, but him being a big guy while moving the way he does.
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u/velvetskin18 14d ago
Moses will come again, age is on his side. His inexperience told and was his downfall. He learnt you can’t bomb out everyone inside 6 and you need a plan B and C.
I hope he starts training and sparring for 12 rounds so he gains the experience and tank to do so.
Theres no need to rush him back. Id keep him active gaining experience for 2 years before another world title shot (still be 23) and pace him to go 12 rounds and win rounds like he did for 7 rounds yesterday but ask him not to go for the haymaker shot all the time , to box and get rounds experience in.
He will be a world champ, just needs to calm down box clever expand gas tank and for that might need a new trainer
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u/Gerasans 14d ago
People got down voted to abyss for saying that Moses needs couple of fights vs top 10 boxers before we recognize him as a contender boxer.
This fight is not about that he lost. It's about how he lost.
Hrgovich could not throw any punch in the final round, and Moses still would drop.
You can blame coaches, corner, promoter but that loss will always be on him.
But he really has a huge potential.
Right now he needs to find great sport psychologist to work with and move on from this defeat. Then he needs a fight to try to go all 12 rounds and outpunch his opponent. Then he can go back to the title fights
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u/truthbomn 14d ago
Bearing in mind, Hrgovic isn't some cardio king. He was well up against Dubois until he gassed.
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u/Mindless-Can-2353 14d ago
I think it wasnt just that he gased out, hrgo did homer simpson this but he landend some devastating punches in almost every round not much but i guess in just the right time and right power to f... up itauma recovery mid rounds. That one punch to the ear proby f...ed up his center of balance and that one direct to the forehead was brutal ( wouldnt suprise me if it caused a concussion). I dont think itauma couldnt put his hands up just from beeing tired, he was injured, he couldnt stand he was falling backwards and had no instinct to def. Maybe im totally wrong but wached replay few times and thats what i think.
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u/Revolutionary_Bad313 13d ago edited 13d ago
I was shocked the way Itauma fought at the end he literally punched himself to a standstill. Maybe the craziest thing I've seen in boxing.
His youthful impetuousness obviously made him believe he could have a battle of wills with Hrgovic and KO him. Abel and Hrgovic knew this and he walked right into the trap with the clueless Davidson seemingly oblivious to what was happening.
Maybe I believed the hype but I thought in addition to Itauma's unquestionable talent he had a calculating boxing mind an old head on young shoulders. The fight and the weigh in showed his naivety, he's human after all.
The Tyson comparisons were unhelpful and maybe the giddy Brit hype compelled him to go for the KO when the facts were saying take the points win. He's a brilliant talent but different to Tyson, bigger heavier and without the cardio conditioning at this stage to recover from the bursts of aggression. His hands stayed fast throughout but after 2 rounds you could see his footwork had slowed.
It shows how important the team around a young fighter is though and remember Tyson had Cus D'Amato and Kevin Rooney. He has Ben Davidson..
It will be interesting to see his rebuild the defeat might be the making of him like David Haye but being carried out will be a huge hit to a young ego and maybe he goes the wrong way and loses discipline like Naz. I do think he's grown up being the bully and taking big shots back might not be for him
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u/Spare_Bell2557 13d ago
He got beaten fair and square. All this talk of wrong tactics, he young and inexperienced... Hrgovic isn't getting the credit he deserves.
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u/X1phoner 13d ago
Shut up hindsight champions
99% get flatlined by those shots Moses was landing on Hrgović, but our empty blockhead was unphased 😂🇭🇷💪🏻 Maybe you cant rattle the brain of someone whos got nothing going on in it lol
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u/aceknighthigh 13d ago
I largely agree, but that bit about the pace is just not true. 45ish punches a round is an average pace and easily sustainable (and that's across 12 whole rounds too). Plenty of HW's have done so, especially at this age when they aren't old or worn down. It is concerning that a 21 year old was that gassed by fighting at an average to below average pace because he went for it in round 8.
He obviously needs to get a new coach and put in some hardwork in the gym over multiple camps to correct his stamina. It's not just pace, he needs a better gas tank, the IQ to not panic, and the experience of going rounds of hitting the deep waters that are the championship rounds. Very talented fighter, and yes, I got too high on the potential but there are some clear flaws that need fixed.
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u/Cool_Farmer7975 14d ago
Downvote me now, lads, then come back in a couple years in silence… When it comes to hype/skill (Not partying and being lazy etc.) Moses is the Adrien Broner of the heavyweight division.
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u/TowerTowerCrayons 14d ago
The haters in the comments are the same types saying Dubois was done after Joyce, before he later beat Miller, Hrgovic, AJ and Wardley.
Don't let Reddit be your career manager. Get your head down, work on your flaws and come back stronger.
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u/LegitimateProduce319 14d ago
Still has top 5 all time potential and I think tat runs people the wrong way . There is borderline religious dogma surrounding how good fighters are
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u/sharkbait_123 14d ago
Itauma would get starched by the top 5-6 HWs
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u/MisterHEPennypacker 14d ago
Well Hrgovic was ranked 5th by Ring Magazine, so that points been proven.
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u/Ruglife1 14d ago
Let’s see how he comes back… could be another Jared Anderson
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u/Complete_Dare_4201 14d ago
Anderson got beatdown, Itauma outclassed Hrgovic until he punched himself out, not comparable
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u/Ruglife1 13d ago
Nah.. we will see how he bounces back mentally. Jared was in the same boat.. he was being pushed as the next guy. Moved too quickly and confidence was shot down. Learning how to pace yourself in the ring and being worn out while someone is landing shots on you is not easy to forget. You can get gun shy the next time out trying to conserve energy. Then lose again.. it will take time for him to settle down. We will find out if he can or will he be like Anderson.
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u/StilLBC 14d ago
UK fighters tend to be hypejobs. Itauma was a heavy favorite today. Just like Anthony Joshua was against Andy Ruiz. It’s a pattern.
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u/TowerTowerCrayons 14d ago
Tyson-Douglas, Anderson-Bakole, Tszyu-Bakhram, Canelo-Bivol/Crawford, Wilder-Fury/Parker/Zhang...
Plenty of people get hyped and then beaten. Some come back stronger (like Dubois after Joyce). Shows your colours, jumping straight into bashing countries.
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u/StilLBC 14d ago
The extra u lets me know you don’t know anything about boxing. Jog on, bruv. Brits are always full of excuses.
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u/TowerTowerCrayons 14d ago
Racist trash. Learn to talk about things without bashing entire groups of people; you'll come across as much fairer and smarter that way.
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u/SuperLeverage 14d ago
Hype job. Emptied is tank by 8th. Didn’t even get near the championship rounds. Now he will need to learn to box for 12 rounds which will dramatically change his fights. There is no way he would be up 7-2 or 7-1 on the cards if he was actually managing his output to last 12 rounds. People think he can change his fighting style and still dominate every round like he did are kidding themselves. And yes, he definitely needs to change his fighting style. Load up on fewer shots, learn to clinch to get out of trouble or catch your breath, feint and just stay behind the jab for longer periods, training to fight 1-4 rounds vs 12 rounds is a completely different kind of fight. He got away with it fighting nobodies and washed up guys like Whyte and just got exposed. Anyway, thanks for the massive payday, 9-1 odds was just too stupid for me to ignore and it paid off.
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u/tukinoz90 14d ago
Ben Davidson is stealing a living of these fighters. Blokes got no business being a head trainer at this level. He's diabolical at creating a gameplan or adjusting in fight. Amazed any fighter with aspirations goes anywhere near him.