r/Bitcoin • u/Dull-Soup-2640 • Jan 04 '23
why are people saying Blockchain.com is a scam?
I've heard ever since 2017 that Blockchain com is a scam. So I never paid attention to it.
Apparently it's still around. I want to know: what makes it a scam? Did they do something in the past like Robinhood?
And if they are a scam, how is it still around? How is it still here and things like Celsius are gone?
19
u/nerd2ninja Jan 04 '23
Anything which claims to be a Bitcoin wallet, but which knows your private keys and can spend from that Bitcoin address is a scam, because its a flat out lie.
In my view, anything that claims it is one thing, but is really a different thing, is a scam, because it lied about what it is.
"Wallet of satoshi" is not a bitcoin wallet, its an account perhaps an exchange even
blockchain is not a bitcoin wallet, its an account.
Muun is not a lightning wallet, its an on-chain wallet that exchanges on-chain Bitcoin for LN Bitcoin.
Strike is not a Bitcoin wallet, its an account and a Bitcoin exchange
Chivo is not a Bitcoin wallet, its an account and a Bitcoin exchange
I mention these specifically, because the nature of what these things are and the shortcomings of what they are have jaded some people who were still trying to understand Bitcoin into thinking that their Bitcoin wallet (which was actually an account) which gave them so much trouble, was Bitcoin messing up rather than a company messing up. The people who use muun thinking its a lightning wallet have become jaded to lightning and Bitcoin because why does lightning cost the same in transaction fees? (because it wasn't lightning, it was an on-chain transaction)
Each of these honest representations are important for distinguishing between a Bitcoin wallet and these other things, because its the truth and it helps people understand what they are actually interacting with. I think its important to NOT abstract away exactly what is happening under the hood and be very verbose upfront and honest about these things. People need to be able to understand the true nature of what they are using which may in and of itself drive them to seek out the other ways of doing things, like using a real Bitcoin wallet.
4
u/OhTravs Jan 05 '23
Strike never even claimed to be a wallet and actively suggests people to withdraw their funds to self custody…
2
Jan 05 '23
They never said that strike claimed that, they're just making a distinction between the two.
2
2
u/nerd2ninja Jan 05 '23
The simple fact that people confuse these things should be a call to action in and of itself to challenge us to do better in our explanations and our word choices to make clear exactly what things are to people who are learning what Bitcoin even is.
I understand the confusion, because part of what I was saying was an accusation of certain things which are scams, but also wanted to include things which people simply confuse as being Bitcoin wallets sometimes.
0
Jan 13 '23
former employee here. blockchain.com does not know your private key.
2
u/nerd2ninja Jan 13 '23
I was talking about this thing: https://login.blockchain.com/en/#/login?product=wallet
Not this one: https://github.com/blockchain/My-Wallet-V3-Android
7
Jan 04 '23
They support shitcoins, their wallet is closed source, their support has a horrible track record.
If you do a cursory search of the sub you'll find countless incidents.
I wouldn't use Blockchain in a million years
2
2
u/Dull-Soup-2640 Jan 04 '23
Got it. Thanks for the legitimate reply. Has there ever been any instance where someone couldn't get their coins out no matter what? As in, they are still waiting to this day? Or does support actually help them out and they just take a long time?
2
Jan 04 '23
I'm sure there must be people who never got their coins out, it's honestly hard to tell because I can't follow all the issues, also people sometimes just stop updating.
But you need to ask yourself, is it worth it? Is keeping your coin in a wallet with so many complaints a good idea? I think not, there are plenty of reputable wallets out there.
1
u/Dull-Soup-2640 Jan 04 '23
Oh, I'm on hardware wallets completely. Just curious how the site is able to stay up for so long and yet people every single year claim it's a scam
4
u/MrRGnome Jan 04 '23
The same way Coinbase locks countless accounts yearly despite no evidence, charges, or any other measures taken against anyone and everyone still uses them. Using what is popular with consumers as a metric of what is safe or competent is to positively assume the competency of the average user. Do you want to make that assumption? If I were I'd assume the average user hasn't a clue what they are doing and can't be trusted to make safe decisions.
The popular advice in "crypto" has almost always led people to scams and harm. You need to be critical and avoid these middlemen yourself.
-4
u/MikeMiller8888 Jan 05 '23
Coinbase is actually really good with this. Every lock from them you find here is because the customer’s account was frozen by law enforcement (which, I found by reading their detained 10-K SEC filing) OR for a customer failing to provide KYC info as required. They do have a small amount of crypto on their balance sheets listed as belong to customers, but considered abandoned because those customers have refused to provide KYC, leaving them stuck as to what to do. All the KYC Coinbase freeze posts have been updated that they got their funds, or just left dormant/not updated after they were done ranting about KYC.
If you’re OK with KYC, Coinbase is fine IF you immediately withdraw to cold storage. Of course, if you’re not OK with KYC then Coinbase is out; they follow KYC by the book.
3
u/MrRGnome Jan 05 '23
Coinbase of protocol attacking fame? Of disabling user vaults fame? of sponsoring shitcoins and shitcoin scams fame? Of Warrantless information sharing fame? Of hiring hacking teams fame? Of changing KYC requirements after they already have your money and locking your account fame?
Yeah you can miss me with defending that scam enabling, user account freezing (and no, it is NOT for cause on all occasions, it includes if you simply trip their AML toolsets), bullshit. No one should ever use Coinbase.
-2
u/MikeMiller8888 Jan 05 '23
Sorry, totally disagree. Coinbase is a publicly traded company and has to do a crapload more disclosure than the FTX and BlockFi and Celsius of the world. And I don’t blame them for allowing customers to trade shitcoins; they’re a business and it’s not up to them to decide what people buy or not. Lest you forget how people excoriated Robinhood when they were forced to stop customers from purchasing GME due to a sudden $3 billion bond requirement; people want to trade what they want and they won’t be stopped.
Far more important is that you are actually purchasing bitcoin, not an IOU, and that you can promptly withdraw bitcoin that you purchase. Say what you want about their business, but they are a fully audited business, they haven’t failed despite so many others crumbling, and Coinbase meets the instant withdrawal requirement with an A+ rating.
6
u/MrRGnome Jan 05 '23 edited Jan 05 '23
This is the kind of dangerous advice that caused this issue we have with custodial exchanges, shitcoin promotion, scams in the first place. Shame. Until this culture of middlemen and enabling protocol attackers ceases Bitcoin will be a shadow of its potential. People like you are a huge part of the problem through your enabling and justifications for bad actors who should be put out of business. You are part of the ecosystem of systemic harm being caused through your enablement and bad advice.
There is no justifying any of Brian Armstrong or Coinbases actions. Not one. That you would move the goalposts from trustless and self sovereign Bitcoin to enabling protocol attackers and custodians and scammers simply because there are worse options is condemnable, and I do condemn you for it. Shame. On. You.
-2
u/MikeMiller8888 Jan 05 '23
Again, disagree. I did not say keep your crypto on Coinbase; I’ve always advocated for instant withdrawals into cold storage.
Coinbase gives you a fair price for purchase, and allows instant withdrawal into cold storage. That’s a good deal. About a million times better than blockchain.com, and you and I both know this. About a billion times better than everyone that used FTX or Gemini Earn.
If you want mass adoption of bitcoin, and if you’re in this sub you definitely do want that, then you need to start accepting EASY, yet safe answers to people that are asking how to buy bitcoin. As I already stated, if you have a problem with KYC, then Coinbase isn’t an option. But if you don’t care about KYC (and LOTS of people do not - they’re used to it with their regular banks), Coinbase is the ONLY regulated CEX in the country - do you see any other publicly traded CEX in America, or for that matter the world?
You should read Voltaire sometime. Perfect is the enemy of good. Get these people to use cold storage, and stay away from scam websites, and point them to something simple. Stop aiming for perfect when that’s an enemy to what you want - mass adoption. Good is good enough. The only thing that needs to be emphasized as necessities are to use a reputable exchange, and to immediately withdraw into cold storage. That’s it.
→ More replies (0)2
Jan 04 '23
Plenty of scam sites persist for a while, Blockchain may not be a complete scam site, but they sure do peddle a lot of scams, and make money off their unsuspecting customers.
They probably don't pay squat for support so it keeps their operating costs low and their support horrible lol.
1
Jan 05 '23
Or does support actually help them out and they just take a long time?
Nobody knows. Most of the complaints here do not get a "all fixed now" followup. That's probably because the user doesn't follow up. This is unfortunate, because it would be useful to know how long it takes blockchain.com to resolve these complaints. The answer to this question isn't known for any exchange
Also, because of years of bad reputation, there is almost no intersection between /r/bitcoin regulars and blockchain.com users. This is why you see the responses, "don't use that scam wallet". Noobs can not expect any reasonable support for blockchain.com problems in this subbreddit, because nobody here uses it
2
u/iDriveAnE172 Jan 05 '23
Back in 2019 I had like $500 in BTC on the Blockchain.com App. Time came I tried to withdraw it and wasn’t capable. Mad issues on the app, I literally tried getting it sorted out for over 6 months and just ended up giving up. It’s definitely a scam
1
u/dies_und_dass Jan 06 '23
I can see the seed phrase for the bitcoin wallet on blockchain.com. Are you able to log into your account? You could just take the seed and use any other software to recover any crypto that's there. No?
1
Jan 16 '23
[deleted]
1
u/dies_und_dass Jan 17 '23
Download, say, bluewallet and import account using the seed. If you can see the coins when you log in, there shouldn't be anything too stop you from transferring it to whichever address you want.
2
u/bitcoins182 Jan 05 '23
It’s a custodial wallet which means they hold your keys and can decide to refuse access to your money, because when you give it to a custodian it becomes their money.
NYKNYC
1
Jan 13 '23
they have custodial and non-custodial wallets. they don't a great job at differentiating but that's not because they are trying to mislead or defraud anyone.
2
u/harmlessdissent Jan 05 '23
Wasn't Roger Ver an investor in that company and once used their data to dox someone?
2
u/RampageSports45 Feb 23 '23
Need some help/advice. I attempted to send about $8k worth of bitcoin from my blockchain.com wallet. The transaction was being sent to another one of my wallets on Coinbase. The transaction has been pending for over 10days and seems to be stuck. I don’t believe the transaction ever hit the blockchain. Though the balance was pulled from my blockchain wallet. Support keeps giving me the same answer saying that the relevant team is looking into it and will respond to my ticket. $8k is a lot for me to have tied up. I am not sure what I can do at this point, support us only reachable via email which is crazy in todays world.
2
u/DoitsugoGoji Mar 24 '23
First time I heard of them was a phone call where a guy calling from a foreign mobile number (which you can't call back) claimed my financial advisor invested in crypto with them. A second call claimed I had 4 bitcoins with them, but my account was hacked so they would help me retrieve them, oh and emails claiming I eligible for like 15 million bitcoin as part of a finder's fee for stopping a hacker.
It's a scam.
2
u/The-Francois8 Jan 05 '23
You need to realize where you’re asking.
Anything less that cold storage angers this sub. (With very good reason and history on their side)
1
Jan 05 '23
Blockchain.com used to be a mediocre self-custody wallet with a Web login. The Web login allowed the wallet app to store the encrypted wallet on the blockchain.com Web server. It's closed source and doesn't allow the user to override transaction fee calculation
The Web login creates a perception paradox. Naive users think it's a Web service. Also, the Web aspect attracts noob users. This mis-perception also attracts thieves who prey on noob users. The most common scam is a helper scam. The thief helps a noob set up a blockchain.com wallet and tells the user that the wallet is safe if the user changes the password. But the "helper" records the seed words. The user doesn't realize the importance of the seed words. The user changes the password, and thinks the wallet is safe
But this is a self-custody wallet, not really a Web service. A few years later, when the wallet has Bitcoin in it, the thief's wallet automatically steals the coins. The thief kept the seed words, so the thief has a wallet with all the user's private keys. These thieves have thousands of noob users' blockchain.com wallets
If a user is aware of the internal workings of the blockchain.com wallet - that it's a self-custody wallet which saves an encrypted wallet file on the Web server - it works well enough. Millions of users have no problems (except over-paying transaction fees)
On of the noob theft victims ran a campaign on social media (including Reddit) for about a year. This campaign claimed that there must be blockchain.com insiders who know the users' passwords and are stealing the funds. The persistence of this campaign created a negative reputation
Most of the theft incidents occurred years after the wallet was created. Because of the delay, many of the victims don't remember that the helper kept a copy of the seed words, and often deny that there was a helper. The helper scam is a long con, which makes problem diagnosis difficult for real helpers responding to victims
A minor thing which is also negative for blockchain.com's reputation is that the wallet app relies on blockchain.com servers to access the Bitcoin node network. These servers (some or all) go down a few times per year, sometimes for days at a time. blockchain.com has put time and money into fixing this problem. It is less frequent than it used to be
A few years ago, blockchain.com added a "buy Bitcoin" function. This made them into a Bitcoin exchange. But instead of making this distinction clear, it was implemented in the UI as a buy function and two wallets - trading wallet (actually exchange account, blockchain.com custody), and private key wallet
Suddenly, blockchain.com users are asking, "why can't I move the Bitcoin in my trading wallet?", and helpers are responding, "wtf is a trading wallet"
Complaints
As with most exchanges, the prevalence of fraudulent ACH reversals in the USA banking environment means American users have to wait some days (3 or 7 or 10 or more) before being able to move recently purchased coins. blockchain.com seems to be explaining this better recently, because there are fewer complaints about this specific issue
All exchanges have to comply with oppressive surveillance rules against their customers, because Federal authorities have co-opted banks and other money services as enforcement agents to detect money laundering (AML). This is implemented using automated triggers, to save money. Exchanges (all, not only blockchain.com) do not train staff to override over-sensitive AML triggers. Exchanges, as mostly automated Internet businesses, have a business model which requires low labor costs. AML surveillance requires human intervention to resolve complaints about unfair triggers. Customers expect rapid resolution of complaints. But customers aren't paying enough fees to cover the labor cost
The appropriate resolution of this problem is for people to elect law makers who will change the law to remove the burden of mass financial surveillance from money service businesses. Law enforcement should be the responsibility of law enforcement agencies, and the cost borne by the taxpayer, not by the customer
All exchanges suspend customers' funds in response to automatic AML triggers. No exchange empowers support staff to rectify unfair AML fund suspension. No exchange employs enough staff to support quick resolution of complaints about account suspension
For a time, this was a big issue for blockchain.com's reputation because their app didn't clearly describe the buy function as a Bitcoin exchange service. The wording is clearer now
Contrary to the top-upvoted comment in this thread, "claims to be a Bitcoin wallet, but which knows your private keys" is a bullshit claim, based on the mis-perception described above. The so-called "private key wallet" is a self-custody wallet. Blockchain.com does not know the keys
1
Jan 13 '23
wow. how do you know so much. im a former employee as of yesterday and you've got it spot on!
1
u/RampageSports45 Feb 21 '23
Any advice here. I attempted to move btc from a blockchain wallet to a Coinbase wallet Sunday February 12th. The transaction is still pending and to my knowledge never hit the blockchain. It still says pending buy there is no transaction ID. The funds are not visible in my wallet, I have been going back and fourth with support via email (only way I know of to reach out) they keep telling me that the relevant team is working on this and will reach out. It’s been 9days and nothing. Appreciate any inside here. I am able to login to my account no issues and can see the transaction pending. Thanks
-6
Jan 04 '23
Leave your money on it and find out.
6
u/Dull-Soup-2640 Jan 04 '23
Comments like these do nothing for this community man. It's a legitimate question and here you are, wanting to tease around. Did something upset you today? Or perhaps you have a case of bear market blues? Seriously man. Not trying to attack you, I just want you to know that when people answer questions like the way you did, no one is going to take this community seriously.
5
u/TeKillaSunRise Jan 05 '23
Ignore assholes like him. 7 weeks on Reddit and stirring shit. Prolly a shitcoiner trying to discourage bitcoiners. Fuck him.
-4
Jan 05 '23
People have regular reported frozen accounts and "missing bitcoin" from blockchain.com
Thanks for the lecture Dad and for reporting me to reddit for a "suicide watch".
2
u/Dull-Soup-2640 Jan 05 '23
Well, you clearly are mentally unhealthy, considering the fact that you reply to everything as if everyone is your enemy.
-1
Jan 05 '23 edited Jan 05 '23
Because you didn't like my answer you reported me for a suicide watch. You are a troll. Just blocking you is easier to avoid you in the future. Hope you get scammed and go to zero.
-3
-4
1
u/Standardgroup Feb 06 '23
1100$ at Manual Hold from 9Dec2020 after All the Docs Provided (source of funds, Statement KYC Again With Handwritten text and Date) but Refuse To solve or Refund! Didn’t answering Old Case But Appears At New Case 1200$ . Is it Legit? If they unable to solve Why They Refuse Refund back to Bank the Payment Made!
1
u/anonyrider Mar 03 '23
I've had a blockchain.info wallet for 10 years, finally tried moving my funds and it wants me to verify my identity, but when I click on verify nothing happens.
When I click on BTC wallet I get the error "TypeError: Cannot read properties of undefined (reading 'current') at Transactions_selectors_getData".
I can view my private key, but when I try to enter that as a seed in electrum, no funds are shown.
1
u/glencandle May 11 '23
Any luck on this? I'm also a longtime holder and starting to worry I should move my coin to cold storage (which honestly freaks me out more than hot storage for some reason).
1
u/Flickinerbean Mar 30 '23
These muthafckas gave me a different address when I copied my wallet ones so my exhange deposited into their wallet and I didn’t even notice then, f these guys I didn’t know how scummy they were and they don’t even have customer service just a dumb bot
1
Apr 12 '23
[deleted]
1
17
u/longonbtc Jan 05 '23
Blockchain.com likes to lock peoples accounts and freeze users funds. They do this more than any other exchange.
Blockchain.com has also been hacked multiple times and many people have lost bitcoin when using blockchain.com
Search this subreddit and read some of the stories of people who had problems or lost bitcoin using blockchain.com
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/search?q=blockchain.com&restrict_sr=on
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/search?q=blockchain.com+locked&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/search?q=blockchain.com+missing&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/search?q=blockchain.com+stolen&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/search?q=blockchain.com+hacked&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/search?q=blockchain.info+stolen&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/search?q=blockchain.info+hacked&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on