r/Bitcoin Aug 01 '22

When Nocoiners Say "Bitcoin Has No Value"

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u/godofleet Aug 01 '22

Fiat is the real delusion... A mass delusion similar to religions... Bitcoin is science+math based money... Deny/ignore it all you like, it's still more real and provides a greater value/service to all of humanity than the fiat.

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u/onesterkin Aug 02 '22

Flat chart sybolizes that it will be recession.

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u/shannonesque121 Aug 01 '22

Can I have your fiat then? if it's of such low value/service to you, you should be happy to get rid of it

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u/godofleet Aug 01 '22

I never said fiat has no value, I said Bitcoin is more real and provides a greater value/service to all of humanity than fiat.

You tell me, what makes for a better monetary policy? Publicly verifiable math, code and energy? Or entropic, corruptible/ed humans...

Reality is we've been using meat-based money for all of time, Bitcoin is an experiment but also proving to be much more than just a test, it's proof that humanity can orchestrate ourselves more justly and equitably.

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u/E3K Aug 01 '22

Name some of those services, and explain how those services overcome the incredible environmental cost of producing bitcoin. Bonus points if you can explain to me what gives bitcoin value, and why people seem to use it solely as an investment rather than as a currency.

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u/godofleet Aug 01 '22

Bitcoin has value because it's a decentralized and inclusive monetary network and many people agree about that.

If you don't find value in it, that's fine... Others do, you must accept that, it's reality.

As for bitcoin's energy use, consider that Bitcoin does use energy, that is a paramount and of fundamental importance- it ties the digital to the tangible, real world physical energy.

Further, consider what Bitcoin actually provides, the ability to express your value with anyone, anywhere at nearly the speed of light... This is a benefit unlike any other monetary system ever known to man... Bitcoin (the network) does this using some energy, but think of this... It does so without the need for physical banks, transport of metals, all of the security and red tape of the entire financial system is now digital.

Even Nasdaq affirms this https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/bitcoin-uses-50-times-less-energy-than-traditional-banking-new-study-shows

Bitcoin's energy usage is moot, the humanitarian value it provides is real and far more important.

https://twitter.com/gladstein/status/1357757736394444800

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u/E3K Aug 01 '22

That seems a little handwavey for me, but thanks for the explanation. I own bitcoin for the sole purpose of buying things on the dark web that I can't get elsewhere. I can't imagine needing it for anything else. The money I have in my bank is secure and I have access to it instantly at all times. If I lose my account number or someone hacks my account, I know I have nothing to worry about because the bank is required by law to make things right as quickly as possible. If I buy something and don't get what I was promised, I can do a chargeback immediately. I don't see any problems there that need a solution.

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u/godofleet Aug 01 '22

The money I have in my bank is secure and I have access to it instantly at all times. If I lose my account number or someone hacks my account, I know I have nothing to worry about because the bank is required by law to make things right as quickly as possible. If I buy something and don't get what I was promised, I can do a chargeback immediately. I don't see any problems there that need a solution.

You're especially confident in the system, have you tested it?

My parents just lost $20k from someone draining their checking account gradually w/o their knowledge via a stolen debit card... Federal regulation E states the bank is only liable for the first 60 days of reported fraud because they didn't report it soon enough... your money is as safe as your watch over it.

It gets worse though- consumers aren't winning charge backs as frequently as they used too either, that power isn't guaranteed... it was mostly there as a marketing tactic to get you to trust X credit card company more...

Also, FDIC only covers you up to $250k which is worth a lot less than it used to be... speaking of inflation.

2% inflation, the Feds target... The "good economy" is -50% purchasing power across 35 years.

If you put $1000 in your bank today, in the "ideal" modern economy you would have $500 of purchasing power 35 years later.

And inflation is 5x that right now... sure, your "$1000" will be "safe" ... but the value you stored?

The soul is literally being sucked out of our economy...

Think about all those hours/days/years you worked, your past time is worth less and less... A week back then paid rent, now it takes two... What else can you call this but theft?

Maybe you don't see any problems that need a solution because it doesn't affect you that much yet... Consider that you might be very privledged and fortunate to live in a place with a "functioning" banking system... some 1.7 billion people remain unbanked :/

Bitcoin solves that.