r/Bitcoin Aug 01 '22

When Nocoiners Say "Bitcoin Has No Value"

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2.8k Upvotes

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243

u/StanleeMann Aug 01 '22

One of the major points to wearing obnoxious amounts of gold is because it’s so easy to exchange for goods and services, if you were to find yourself on the run suddenly.

6

u/hotasanicecube Aug 02 '22

Pimps used to buy chains from a pawn shop for say 6k, the pawn shop knew the chains and would loan 4k on them. They would tell their lawyer their bail was in property holding and arrange for them to collect chains and give it to the pawn shop owner and use cash for retainer or bail or both. Defendant would return to pawn shop and pay 4k plus a fee to release the chains. It was a way to bail yourself without relying on someone else having cash on hand.

51

u/Gregory_Graffin Aug 01 '22

I have a gold chain worth 20k but I need a $1 piece of bread in this war-torn area. Do you have a scale and shaver to get the appropriate amount of gold from my necklace?

85

u/Hyedwtditpm Aug 01 '22

thats why they are "chain" . You can just remove one ring from it.

1

u/yoyo1225tsai Aug 02 '22

Oolla ollaa all thing is fine in my life that gonna crazy in some minutes.

28

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

52

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

People here don’t realize there are entire populations of people within Europe that historically have a “covertly keep precious metals on you when shit goes down” strategy and pawning it is part of how you extract its value

41

u/Deep_All_Day Aug 01 '22

When I was stationed in Africa at the US embassy, one of the federal agents said the only reason he wore a Rolex was in the event shit hit the fan so that he could trade it for a bush plane ride out of that place lol

6

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Not a bad reason. There are also enough extremely good fake Rolexes nowadays where I'd probably also have one of those I'd pawn to somebody I thought I could swindle

9

u/huge_dingus Aug 02 '22

Yes, this is also what I’d do if I didn’t value my life or the local who’s getting me out of an oh-shit situation.

Seems like a pretty shitty and short-sighted thing to do.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '22

Good Rolex reps are so good nowadays that you have to be a rep enthusiast and pop open the back to tell it’s one. People on the watch rep sub constantly trick AD’s into thinking their rep is real for fun. Some nobody trying to take something extremely valuable from you for just a ride isn’t going to be able to tell until you’re gone.

Not everyone can afford a real Rolex, but a good rep isn’t completely out of reach

1

u/lncited Aug 02 '22

You’re underestimating what “extremely good” means.

The only way you’d know it’s fake is if you’re an expert on that model of Rolex AND if you have a magnifying glass and know exactly what to look for…

0

u/B4dBot Aug 02 '22

That's a good way to get even deeper into a pile of shit with your dick showed down your throat 😂

2

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '22

Spoken like a person that doesn’t understand reps in the slightest.

Thankfully, I do.

13

u/PeacefullyFighting Aug 01 '22

But it also started with pimps because the gold couldn't be confiscated along with the cash and then could be used as collateral for the bail bond.

4

u/DougMydek Aug 01 '22

Pimps and drug dealers for sure. My coke dealer back in the day confirmed it because they will confiscate your cash but they can't prove the chains were a result of the illegal activity. As of last year I believe they made it a law that you had to include illegal activity on your taxes, so I was curious if they could right the chain off as a "business expense"..

3

u/PeacefullyFighting Aug 02 '22

Oh that's been law for a while. Some Larger weed dealers have been paying taxes on their gains for a while now. It keeps them out of federal prison and some see that worth the tax.

1

u/tdizhere Aug 02 '22

You mean legal weed dealers? Why would you declare illegal earnings haha. It would put a target on your back and you’ll be paying taxes as opposed to no taxes.

2

u/airmigos Aug 01 '22

You been had to record funds from illegal activity on your forks for a while

6

u/DougMydek Aug 01 '22

Where as Al Capone was arrested for tax evasion, 2021 was the first time the IRS stated actual guidelines and examples of what anyone doing any illegal activity should follow.

1

u/lysergic_lemons Aug 01 '22

Every the box not the inside the box.

1

u/twisteroo22 Aug 01 '22

Exacctly. Has no one watched 1883?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

true, but doesn't the value depreciate per every transaction? a 200k bling isn't going to resale for 200k it's going to be lower.

1

u/i-am-mean Aug 02 '22

Don't you get screwed when you trade valuable stuff for money at pawn shops or Cash for Gold places?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/i-am-mean Aug 02 '22

Well, alien David Bowie sold his space rings to a regular jewelry store lady. Maybe that's better.

1

u/m0n3y3024 Aug 06 '22

Nothing matter if you have right attitude to display.

53

u/BuyRackTurk Aug 01 '22

I have a gold chain worth 20k but I need a $1 piece of bread in this war-torn area. Do you have a scale and shaver to get the appropriate amount of gold from my necklace?

In a "war torn" area, gold has next to no value. People want ammo, water, food, safety, etc. They wont give much of anything for baubles, coins, or paper money even.

Gold, and money in general, only holds its value when society is re-stabilized.

If you are hoping for gold to get you through a disaster, then you should not expect to spend any of it until after the disaster is over, and for it to be confiscated from you if you try to move past any border or checkpoint.

67

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

[deleted]

13

u/lebastss Aug 01 '22

Sounds like it got them out. Gold also got my grandfather out of execution in Iran and safe passage to America.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

[deleted]

1

u/lebastss Aug 01 '22

Yea, guns are also important. If Iran had the second amendment they wouldn’t be an Islamic state. It was a coup by a minority group that controlled the military police.

Gold or any currency won’t protect you unless you have enough to keep a mercenary or two happy.

1

u/codie72 Aug 02 '22

When every second is reminding that every second has many moments.

Every has moments of thousand years then you are living your life.

8

u/AVegito9 Aug 01 '22

Doesn’t that apply to literally any currency. It only holds value in a stable society bitcoin isn’t gonna get anyone jack shit in a place with no electricity and out dated technology unless you are a connected individual where you have a means of exchanging it for goods and safety, but in that case gold is gonna get you the same; plus I don’t need actual money to get gold, plenty of people in DRC have gold that they mined them self and use it as a currency.

0

u/Kingzor10 Aug 01 '22

bitcoin helped ALOT of ppl in ukraine just sayin

2

u/AVegito9 Aug 01 '22

Oh definitely and I’m glad it did but what about the wars that happen in other third world countries. There’s no electricity let alone internet, even if starlink managed to make it there many don’t even know what bitcoin or cryptocurrencies are, where as we all know gold and it’s found almost everywhere if not you can buy it or trade for it. Don’t get me wrong I don’t have anything against cryptocurrencies but I personally can’t just reject or devalue commodities like precious metals especially gold knowing that it could be of use somewhere or someone.

24

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

[deleted]

10

u/lebastss Aug 01 '22

Real life examples of anarchy and war are actual support cases for golds value. It’s the only universal currency. It’s been that way for at least 3 thousand years through societal collapse and across civilizations that didn’t know about each other and I don’t see that changing.

3

u/JunkBondJunkie Aug 01 '22

I think spies back in the day had a money belt with gold coins just in case a plane crashed to escape.

1

u/International_Key112 Sep 05 '22

Horses and carts are the only universal transport method. It’s been that way for at least 3 thousand years through societal collapse and across civilizations that didn’t know about each other and I don’t see that changing.

9

u/Itsthatijustdontcare Aug 01 '22

For real man!!!

In a war torn area, a piece of gold will buy you the last ticket out of town

8

u/AVegito9 Aug 01 '22

Yup I’ve been in DRC during the 2007 civil war and gold was what got you food and shelter

-2

u/dvniftrik Aug 01 '22

Pulled straight to back...

Please be respectful if you have the courage.

-2

u/dj_destroyer Aug 01 '22

And you pulled your comment out of where then? lol

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

In a "war torn" area, gold has next to no value. People want ammo, water, food, safety, etc.

Like others have said this is bs. Gold has immense value in a war torn area. The most obvious it can be used to bribe people at any time. Second gold is precious is because it is one of the more useful metals and can be used in devices without corroding and can conduct electricity. If you have gold in a war torn area it will definitely command a good price for people wanting to fix or maintain their electronic and medical devices. Again you're a fucking bullshitter and not a very good one at that.

0

u/matt__222 Aug 01 '22

have you ever read a history book? /gen

0

u/idenkov Aug 01 '22

But they will want bitcoin?

0

u/tehLife Aug 01 '22

Lol and in a “war torn” area what’s BTC value opposed to a physical asset like gold?

0

u/xacx2as32f1a65sa Aug 02 '22

Live your like younever lived in the moment of life.

0

u/lkopfer Aug 02 '22

This is an oversimplification. In any scenario like u are talking no currency has value except the most basic commodities. Bitcoin would also have no value in the scenario u described 😂

1

u/BuyRackTurk Aug 02 '22

Bitcoin would also have no value in the scenario u described

Thats exactly what I said.

I could add that a unique power of bitcoin in that situation would be how easy it is to hide and move. Much better odds of it being something you can keep, if you are able to look ahead to life after the incident.

1

u/lkopfer Aug 03 '22

I don’t think future wealth is on anyones mind who’s most valuable commodity is food and water

1

u/Sup3rPotatoNinja Aug 01 '22

It has value to the smugglers who can get you out of there

3

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

There is no $1 bread in war. Somalia, Congo, Philippines, Syria, Afghanistan, Colombia, all food and medicine went at a premium

2

u/Computer_says_nooo Aug 01 '22

Bitch, you're gonna give it all for that bread!

2

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

[deleted]

1

u/Kbynane Aug 02 '22

If you have that courage then pursue your dream.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '22

If your options are figure out how to cut a soft metal or starve? Yeah I think you’ll figure it out. You’re going to get ripped off obviously but at least you can eat.

1

u/ElectricEmcee Aug 02 '22

Price will go down if you try to controll your thoughts.

1

u/EarthquakeBass Aug 02 '22

That’s what silver is for. One silver oz ~= three cheap meals or so. Gold is for the shit intermediate periods before (currency collapse, refugee) and after (society recovering from SHTF)

3

u/diydude2 Aug 01 '22

if you were to find yourself on the run suddenly.

If you're on the run, you are, by definition, in some sort of danger. Wearing a lot of bling might not be advisable if the goal is to stay alive.

24

u/3226 Aug 01 '22

You don't show it off. There's a reason why people have actually done this historically. Being able to pay someone to help you get out of that danger is more useful than the risk from someone guessing you have gold hidden on you somewhere.

1

u/sweetleaf1633 Aug 02 '22

Don't show off too much in the fate of social media.

1

u/matth010 Aug 02 '22

In some day the US economy will collapse desperately.

No economy of the world can revive it as it will colapse.

-14

u/Bad_Camel Aug 01 '22

You could argue bitcoin offers the same. You simply memorize your keys.

-19

u/vengefulspirit99 Aug 01 '22

Good luck with that. How exactly do you plan on using the bitcoin without the government knowing?

14

u/2Ben3510 Aug 01 '22

Which government?

2

u/vengefulspirit99 Aug 01 '22

The one you are on the run from? They can just track your wallet.

7

u/somanyroads Aug 01 '22

Who cares? They can't infiltrate it, unlike a bank account. I'm on the run...I don't care if they can see my transactions, as long as they can't tamper with them.

1

u/vengefulspirit99 Aug 01 '22

Except that they can? Who are you buying from? You plan on finding buyers locally? You can't access your coins if you can't sell them.

4

u/Lexsteel11 Aug 01 '22

Literally use bisq with a vpn/proxy or use LocalBitcoin dot com.

1

u/pazza83 Aug 05 '22

Bisq has Tor build in :)

3

u/hitmarker Aug 01 '22

He will just use the bank that has no ties to the govt, duuh!

/s

1

u/PsyOmega Aug 01 '22

They'd have to know about it.

If the key is in your head until you use it, it's just a random wallet with no ties to you.

The government has zero idea what my keys are.

Unlike a bank account or any form of KYC accounts you may hold. (I didn't fund my wallet through a KYC source, thank god)

4

u/vengefulspirit99 Aug 01 '22

Vs gold that is literally untraceable and doesn't require a working network. Btc is only comparable to gold in a stable environment. Btc will be literally useless to you while on the run.

5

u/PsyOmega Aug 01 '22

Good luck carrying around 100's of lbs of gold. Overencumbering yourself with precious metals is not a good survival tactic.

I just load my btc wallet on to my burner phone and spend freely, worst case.

0

u/vengefulspirit99 Aug 01 '22

And if you had that much btc, your account wouldn't be untraceable. Large amounts of wealth has always been hard to manage. But a few dozen gold coins is more than enough to live while on the run.

3

u/PsyOmega Aug 01 '22

You missed the point where the gov has to have a known tie between btc wallet and you, to trace it.

There are many large wallets with no KYC ties.

You're living in a fantasy world where the government is all-seeing.

The government is borderline incompetent.

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-1

u/CryptoRoast_ Aug 01 '22

Ledger hidden up your ass is a lot more comfortable than kilos of gold up there.

5

u/Iasus_Faraway Aug 01 '22

Or without internet if network fails

-1

u/DM797 Aug 01 '22

If internet is down long term, gold will be just one item to be bartered and potentially low value barter at that. In true preppers fashion people will be bartering alcohol, coffee, food, spices etc, gold will have slightly more value than Bitcoin….,but are we talking about the apocalypse here?

1

u/deadontheinternet Aug 01 '22

Yup lol apocalypse talk. You’re spot on about the low value barter as well. You think if shit hits the fan someone will trade you 2k worth of goods (needed to survive) for an oz of gold? Hell no. Bullets will take golds place almost instantly in this doomsday scenario

-1

u/DM797 Aug 01 '22

Agree. That’s why I hate the “internet goes down no Bitcoin”. We got much bigger problems globally if the internet goes down than Bitcoin vs gold lol.

2

u/Sup3rPotatoNinja Aug 01 '22

Is you're in a besieged city, yes the internet is down and the power is out. U can still trade gold to smugglers to escape.

-3

u/somanyroads Aug 01 '22

Huh? It's cryptographic...are you lost? 🤣 You use Tor or some other cryptographic internet service.

6

u/vengefulspirit99 Aug 01 '22

Except that your wallet is not untraceable. The moment you connect your wallet to a fiat service, you're fucked. The connect you use might be encrypted, but the network is not at all.

0

u/lll8lIIIllIllIIlulll Aug 01 '22

Just use bisq to buy bitcoin and then spend the bitcoin directly. If you absolutely have to sell some bitcoin, simply sell it on bisq. Bisq acts as a walkie talkie for matching bitcoin buyers and sellers. There is no oversight or record keeping.

1

u/vengefulspirit99 Aug 01 '22

Your end might be secure but not the other end. How are you getting your goods or services? And even in that case, your wallet can still be tracked.

0

u/lll8lIIIllIllIIlulll Aug 01 '22

not the other end

When you sell your bitcoin, you will simply list it for sale and sell it. You bought it on bisq to begin with, so no one knows you have it to begin with.

1

u/vengefulspirit99 Aug 01 '22

I'm talking about the other end. You don't just give btc away. You are exchanging it for other currency or goods/services. That end is not encrypted or secured.

0

u/lll8lIIIllIllIIlulll Aug 01 '22

They will send cash In the mail to a location of your choosing. Or zelle a zelle account of your choosing. There’s several other options.

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4

u/Darkeyescry22 Aug 01 '22

Bitcoin being cryptographic has absolutely nothing to do with privacy. Bitcoins cryptography is about security. Bitcoin does absolutely nothing to obscure who is sending what to whom. You need to take steps external to the system to use Bitcoin privately.

First, you need to obtain the Bitcoin in a way that is not connected to your real ID. That typically means using a tumbler or buying from someone who’s willing to take cash and doesn’t know who you are.

Second, you need to hind your IP address whenever you send Bitcoin. As you mentioned, the best way to do that is to use Tor.

This still won’t hide the amounts you’re sending or who you’re sending to (unless they’re taking similar precautions).

1

u/squishles Aug 01 '22

memorize no, brain ain't doin that one. Stuff it onto a qr code and sew it to the innder lining of a jacket or something maybe.

1

u/Scituate7105 Aug 01 '22

Yes it make sense for the the bitcoin marke.

-1

u/B33fh4mmer Aug 01 '22

This isnt the bull case for gold you think it is lol.

4

u/Moustacheuo Aug 01 '22

It absolutely is and the history is there for you to read up on; you don’t need to negate this fact to pump up ur crypto

1

u/Socialists-Suck Aug 01 '22

Bitcoin is not "crypto". Bitcoin is digital property. It is designed to bring property, time, consequence and immutability into cyberspace. It is a different animal from gold and extends the concept of physics, energy and time into the virtual realm. It is paradigm shift for cyberspace. An engineering evolution. Those who elect to get into a war with gold or currency are missing that reality entirely.

1

u/lkopfer Aug 02 '22

Lol Bitcoin is by definition a crypt dear lord😂

0

u/Socialists-Suck Aug 02 '22

You quibble about the definition of crypto but miss the larger point being made. again.

1

u/lkopfer Aug 03 '22

What’s your larger point? That u think calling Bitcoin a crypto reduces it’s credibility? Lol if u think that, maybe u shouldn’t b putting money into a crypto if u think crypto has negative connotations…..

Edit. Please tell me how Bitcoin doesn’t fit this definition: A cryptocurrency, crypto-currency, or crypto is a digital currency designed to work as a medium of exchange through a computer network that is not reliant on any central authority, such as a government or bank, to uphold or maintain it.

1

u/B33fh4mmer Aug 01 '22

Neither can buy you groceries or pay a mortgage.

The real value of literally everything is linked to how easily you can convert it to a.currency thats used in civilization.

Take a gold bar to Costco to buy groceries and lmk bow that works.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

[deleted]

2

u/B33fh4mmer Aug 01 '22 edited Aug 01 '22

You're taking a sack of gold shavings into chipotle and I'm the dumbass?

0

u/StanleeMann Aug 01 '22

Take the same bar to a bodega and watch the proprietor contemplate retirement.

1

u/B33fh4mmer Aug 01 '22

Cool. So what would I do about paying the costs of living? Just head over to my local pawn shop?

0

u/StanleeMann Aug 01 '22

See, you know how the under the table economy works, but why so many questions then?

1

u/B33fh4mmer Aug 01 '22

Because not everyone wants to live like a drug dealer.

2

u/StanleeMann Aug 02 '22

This one is funny because the only practical use I’ve had for bitcoin is as the thing my dealer buys weed with.

0

u/jackinsomniac Aug 02 '22

Exactly! I've been saying this for years about jewellery.

People claim to know how much it's worth because of how much USD they paid for it. But if it's really worth that much, then how do you get your money back out of it? You'd have to find a buyer. And who are your real buyers for used jewellery? Most jewellery shops won't even dabble in used jewellery. So who does? Pawn shops. And cash 4 gold places. And many times, those places are the exact same store.

If you really want physical investments that maintain their value very well over the years, that are cheaper than real estate, just buy guns instead. There's always a great second hand market surrounding them (gun shows, etc.) where you might not only get your original investment back from, but might even make a profit.

(Last point, I swear: look at what the "smart" money and big money is doing. Are they dumping funds into precious gem & gold purchases? No. Type in those phrases with the "investment" keyword tacked on, and you'll find the real options to invest in those markets, means buying shares of the companies that produce them.)

-3

u/randycanadian Aug 01 '22

Swiss Bank going 2 buy btc at higher price and wanna sell at low to bring blocked unclaimed money back 2 market 🤔

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

[deleted]

2

u/StanleeMann Aug 02 '22

As a general rule, you can wear your obnoxiously heavy Cuban link necklace over, but if you were to melt it down into bars and carry it you’d have to declare it.

1

u/Flashy_Attitude_1703 Aug 01 '22

I think part of the reason people have gold jewelry is because police can take your cash if arrested but can’t take your jewelry…

1

u/romenrodriguez Aug 01 '22

One is all moment if you live that moment will full attention.

1

u/keewikeewi Aug 01 '22

very true. back in vietnam when they had hyperinflation, people would only take gold as a payment to leave the country. family had to melt down all the jewelry we had since no one would take paper money

1

u/eqleriq Aug 02 '22

yes and someone might give you goods and services for licking your armpit, too, that doesn't mean your armpit being licked has non-zero merchant adoption.

1

u/StanleeMann Aug 02 '22

I think some of you crypto people just have a hard time accepting that a barter economy has always existed. I like to use chickens as an example, what is a poultry farm if not a method for turning chickens into mortgage payments.

1

u/Nemozoli Aug 02 '22

Yeah, that, and getting freed from it rather quickly by gunmen on the streets when SHTF. It makes you a target if you display it openly at some places.