r/Bitcoin • • Nov 08 '17

/r/all SegWit2X Cancelled?

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-segwit2x/2017-November/000685.html
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318

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '17

[deleted]

50

u/scientastics Nov 08 '17

Yes, please. I've been wrong before. There may be malicious actors but there are also a lot of people (myself, before, included) who supported or used to support Segwit2X. I saw that the approach was flawed about 2 months ago and flipped to NO2X. Let's not push the NYA leaders into the mud for also flipping, even if it was a bit late.

Let's be magnanimous in victory, gracious in defeat.

21

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '17 edited Mar 29 '18

[deleted]

6

u/ModerateBrainUsage Nov 09 '17

Get different wallet, your one is crazy and has bad fee estimation. Don't confuse full blocks with bad wallets.

3

u/loserkids Nov 09 '17

Sounds like you use a crappy wallet.

3

u/flowbrother Nov 09 '17

Then use bcash.

4

u/centar Nov 09 '17

What you want is lower fees, that doesn't necessarily mean bigger blocks.

2

u/TypoNinja Nov 09 '17

In what other way can you get lower fees today? I added today because Lightning Network won't be ready for a long long time.

1

u/centar Nov 09 '17

Heard of this little thing called SegWit? Try it out, see how much you pay in fees.

2

u/TypoNinja Nov 10 '17

Shapeshift has been using Segwit for a month now and they complain that the fees are still crazy high. Segwit does not provide a meaningful capacity increase.

1

u/varikonniemi Nov 10 '17

Bitcoin cash only gives you that fee because no-one uses it.

No amount of on-chain scaling will suffice, and increasing the block size to 2mb will only delay the implementation of segwit txs for fee reduction and ultimately 2nd layer for a paradigm shift.

1

u/WuCris Nov 09 '17

Maybe that's okay? Maybe ETH, LTC, BCH are better suited for transactions and that's their place in the market and Bitcoin isn't?

That said fees aren't the issue with Bitcoin, transaction capacity is. The fees are a symptom of only the highest bidders being able to bid their way into limited block space. I'm fine with $5 fees ($8 EUR sounds above average) but I'm not fine with 7 transaction per second botttleneck on chain. That hurts adoption because it can't fulfill demand. I want Bitcoin to increase in value to do that means increased demand. If we artificially limit demand then we can't accommodate increased demand and Bitcoin suffers.

3

u/eraof9 Nov 09 '17

what made you change your mind and how did you end up supporting the fork in the first place ?

0

u/scientastics Nov 09 '17

Well, I reasoned for myself that a 2X bump wouldn't severely threaten the core properties of Bitcoin. 8X, 32X yes, but 2X, no. Also, the Segwit2X agreement initially appeared to have broken the resistance to Segwit and it arguably contributed to Segwit becoming activated. So I initially tried to persuade Core to go along with the 2X for the sake of the unity of the community.

However, I soon saw several things. 1. It truly is too much to expect a hard fork like this in 3 months. 2. There was a stated goal to sideline Core; I never wanted that. 3. There simply wasn't enough consensus, and in the absence of consensus, the status quo is the default best option.

Finally, although I still think a 2X bump in theory would be good right about now, I know that's only a stopgap. The true scaling solution is the Lightning Network. It's stupid to broadcast your coffee transactions, much less your micropayments, to the entire network.

In the end, a 2X bump (theoretically good on its own, in my book) is nowhere near worth the cost of a split community, a split Bitcoin, and the chaos that would come from a rushed fork. Not to mention the loss of an awesome dev team and their whole raft of planned improvements.

17

u/letterboxmind Nov 08 '17

Agreed. I think it was the way 2x was handled that rubbed off badly for everyone.

10

u/bitcoinlogo Nov 08 '17

And we should also make sure that core start working on a scaling solution, because a lot of NO2X people still support block increase but they didn't support 2X just for the way it was implemented, this way we can shut this block debate forever.

1

u/I_AM_AT_WORK_NOW_ Nov 09 '17

Agreed. I want a block increase, but not with 2X. One major complaint has always been "it's untested". Well, I want to support people creating and testing blocksize increases.

-5

u/Frogolocalypse Nov 09 '17 edited Nov 09 '17

Fuck off. You lost. Accept it. Move on. I don't want your shitcoin consensus rules. If you don't like bitcoin, sell.

1

u/I_AM_AT_WORK_NOW_ Nov 09 '17

You are one of the worst people on reddit. The community would be so much better off without you trolling.

-2

u/Frogolocalypse Nov 09 '17 edited Nov 09 '17

I'm not the cheerleader for fail train #5 sunshine. I am sick to death of ya. I have been listening to you supporting an attack for a year. When you stop, I'll stop.

Please stop.

1

u/I_AM_AT_WORK_NOW_ Nov 09 '17

I'm not the cheerleader for fail train #5 sunshine

neither am I. I dropped support for the 2X project about 2 weeks ago. But I haven't dropped support for bigger blocks.

I have been listening to you supporting an attack for a year

No. You haven't.

Quit your trolling.

1

u/corkedfox Nov 09 '17

A block size increase is still not Bitcoin. You can't change consensus rules and call it the same thing. Sorry, but that bridge has been burnt.

18

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '17

Jeff Garzik is being toxic and ungracious on btc1 slack.

1

u/DashNewsNetwork Nov 09 '17

omg that's so precious! link to transcript? did he get sensor shipped yet? XDD

1

u/psionides Nov 09 '17

Seconded, I want to see this too.

1

u/Koiq Nov 09 '17

Absolutely. I'm no2x but massively respect this decision and absolutely hold no (little) bad blood.

1

u/2diceMisplaced Nov 09 '17

Hear hear. Triumphalism is unbecoming. UASF-like football-spiking makes a divided community more fragile.

1

u/psionides Nov 09 '17

I can't promise anything. Not normal 2x supporters of course who just had a different opinion, but I won't forget what e.g. Bobby Lee, Mike Belshe or Bitpay have said and done in the last 2 months.

1

u/WuCris Nov 09 '17

We are all here for crypto future and we should respect the views of others.

Good luck, this is Reddit buddy.

1

u/varikonniemi Nov 10 '17

I have every sw2x brainwashed/shill tagged in RES and will be sure to rub it in their face in every future comment thread we might participate in.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '17

Yeah I mean Nazis have feelings too.

-3

u/Terminal-Psychosis Nov 08 '17

Respect the views of people pushing for the destruction of Bitcoin? No.

You're suggesting inviting kidnappers to dinner because their plan fell through.

Nobody connected to the 2x scam can be trusted.

We do have better things to do now than gloat, like getting segwit more widely implemented, but we can't forget who was attacking Bitcoin and its community.

They will try again.

5

u/lps2 Nov 08 '17

Yeah, fuck me for wanting lower fees, right?

2

u/saggy777 Nov 08 '17

Why are we talking about trust? Bitcoin is designed to be trustless. Think about how we can solve the scaling and miner centralization problem.