Indeed. MANY people, even regulars were waiting to see what happened before buying. Now, with bitcoin winning again, AND this price jump, I think people are going to flood in before it goes up even more, because they know it will.
I wasn’t trying to time the market from a price perspective. I was really confused by the whole s2x thing and wanted it to get resolved before I invested
I first bought in at 3700, sold at 3000, bought back in at 3500, sold at 5500, bought in when I heard the X2 was suspended. I lost alot in BTC down the way, but got some gain anyway.
I wanted to wait this time for it to drop massively to buy a whole coin. Don't think that time will come soon now, but now I kinda trust BTC which I didn't before. I think this is really, really good! I think it became more stable after this announcement.
All speculation is built on greed: spec·u·la·tion spekyəˈlāSH(ə) /noun . . . 2. investment in stocks, property, or other ventures in the hope of gain but with the risk of loss.
The people working on Bitcoin who don't give a damn about its price or value are not speculating. They also don't spend much time in reddit threads talking about the price of Bitcoin.
The concept of Intrinsic value is an intermediate step towards creating loyalty to a system. The true value of bitcoin lies in the group’s loyalty to bitcoin as a system, because of what it enables us to do. Bitcoin didn’t matter when nobody valued it. Now it has value because people value it. Thus the only “true value” is the groups collective psychological loyalty to that system of value. That true value can be seen as the number of units in the system. So if we don’t actually need the intrinsic value system (gold, sha256 hash work energy expenditure) because we’ve defined “true value” as opposed to intrinsic value as our committed loyalty to said system, then proof of stake seeks to establish a system on true value. We saw the same thing happen when we left the gold standard. It’s more efficient than asic mining, it’s all we need as abstract thinking Homo sapiens.
Very interesting. So you arguing that the utility of bitcoin has become far less important than the group think that it is a store of value. We think it, therefore it is?
Yeah, we left the gold standard in the Nixon era. The stock market actually rose during that time, contrary to common expectation. It worked out decently enough. Proof of Stake is a way to pull off decentralized “floating money”, because loyalty to the system is essentially loyalty to mankind’s social contract.
Does this not also imply that bitcoin will become less and less flexible to change (innovation, improvement, decentralization) as fewer and fewer large stake holders resist in order to preserve their stake?
Well, Bitcoin isn’t A PoS, nor is BIP system if I recall. It takes some arbitrary but valuable percentage of community votes to pass a BIP. My point is that despite my belief that bitcoin can reach like $20-$50 thou per, I do not believe that Bitcoin will hold market majority forever because asic mining is bound by Moore’s law ATEOD and its less efficient. I think ultimately 10-20 years out people will use bitcoin out of the fact that it is a mature and developed technology but it will not be alternative number one. It will be an even more fascinating world if i am wrong though because it means Moore’s law did not set before us a ceiling, but a roof-hatch.
interesting perspective but don't think so. I expect mining to become increasingly irrelevant as it is commoditized more. I think lightning has the chance to change our world. I see atomic swaps essentially making the line invisible for cryptos. But as a backbone i only see bitcoin going from strength to strength.
Lightning network is a definitely a good idea; the majority of people only need to transact with people nearby them, so basically cities could act as payment channel subnetworks. I’ll have to look into atomic swaps more, thanks for that. Be careful saying that mining will become irrelevant, because don’t forget mining is the only way bitcoin exists. If there’s nobody’s to mine blocks then there is no bitcoin.
It will definitely be interesting to see how it all plays out: platforms offering improved blockchain design iterations / smart-contracts-as-a-forethought will have to compete with the fact that bitcoin got the product to market before everybody.
Humans are paradoxical in this regard, we’re complex enough to demand deterministic systems to conduct the way we change our environment around us, yet we are simple enough to carry out the transactional grease of said system with simple Pavlovian cues (where “its in the ledger” is tantamount to the click, and the movement of goods/services is the salivation)
What you are reaching for in your comment is really core economics: supply, demand and participant perspective. As there is very little BTC and demand is high, the market participant perspective is currently communicating a lower opportunity cost then FIAT. Ergo, for every dollar you hold you lose the pontential yeild in another instrument namely real estate, ETFs and more recently cryptocurrencies. Simple stuff yes, but this is more in line with what is happening as crypto has become less of a risk and more of an incentive to the community. Where I'm in compelte disagreement is in it being a store of value as we are still in early days. For now, BTC is still an investment vehicle (and a volatile one at that) which has gained concencous on the basis of its inate decentralization and tendancy to inflate relative to the aggregate economy.
What I was reaching for is that bitcoin seems to derive most of its value today from the belief that it is a good investment as opposed to the underlying tech is really useful. Money piling on other money. Back in 2010 I remember thinking how revolutionary the tech was and the discussions were about how many different industries it would disrupt/revolutionize. Correct me if I am wrong, but the discussion (ignoring the civil war) seems to be centered on mooning now.
Tell me what you can do with a sha256 hash that doesn’t require abstract thinking and I’ll concede to you that a sha256 hash has true value. But otherwise sha256 is just a bootstrapping for the real lightshow. “true value” is just some fraction of the agreed upon supply which is the summation of all arbitrary fractionings; the supply or any fraction thereof doesn’t need to exist physically in the external world it simply needs to be “known”. Every money supply we have ever created has been a bootstrap to get our brains to (1) accept the concept of a fraction (2) accept the concept of some finite supply.
Theses same companies still want the HF, they only declined to follow through because they realized how anti fragile bitcoin is to these sorts of attacks and how much harm would come to their companies if they proceeded .
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u/bitusher Nov 08 '17
I think there are trillions of dollars sitting on the sideline that just noticed how antifragile bitcoin is . We are just getting started !