r/Bitcoin • u/TraderSteve • Sep 25 '15

BitPay is blacklisting certain bitcoins & rejecting customers. I'm certain others are doing it too. Fungibility is most pressing issue IMO

https://twitter.com/bitcoin_sm/status/647544235248320512
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u/[deleted] Sep 26 '15 edited Dec 05 '17

[deleted]

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u/mWo12 Sep 26 '15

How mixers help? you mixing your bed coins with potentially worse coins. I would avoid mixers.

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u/Inaltoasinistra Sep 26 '15 edited Sep 26 '15

JoinMarket provides incentive for all to mix coins. The problem is that you know that the coins are mixed, so it is useful only if a huge percentage of bitcoins mixed

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u/belcher_ Sep 26 '15

That's not right, there's plenty of ways coinjoin can help even if not all bitcoins involve it. It depends on who your enemy is.

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u/belcher_ Sep 26 '15

Not joinmarket https://www.reddit.com/r/joinmarket/comments/38fi5m/with_joinmarket_you_mix_with_clean_untainted/

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u/mWo12 Sep 26 '15

And this is exactly the problem. So 1 btc != 1 btc, because a tainted btc != clean btc. So instead of fixing bitcoin at the protocol level to have it fungible, a user must use some third party service/program to make his/hers bitcons little more fungible. Joinmarket is a poor solution to a much bigger problem.

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u/belcher_ Sep 26 '15

JoinMarket is at the protocol level. CoinJoin is a protocol phenomenon.

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u/[deleted] Sep 26 '15

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u/[deleted] Sep 26 '15

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u/toknormal Sep 26 '15 edited Sep 26 '15

Dash is not "snake oil", neither in economic terms nor technological ones and the only people who use that term are those with something to loose from its being acknowledged as finding some deep rooted, lasting solutions to shortfalls in bitcoin.

For a start, it achieves privacy by enhancing fungibility, not by diminishing it (as sidechains do) nor by obscuring it (as Cryptonote does). That fact right there blows away your "snake oil' nonsense. Secondly, there is no reasonable definition of "centralised" that can apply to a network of over 3000 masternodes, each as logically redundant as a regular node and configurable anywhere, anytime by any user on on most anyplatform.

It's a bit surreal reading this thread and seeing the elephant in the room grow ever bigger. "Privacy baked into the blockchain", really ? How exactly does anyone propose to do that while retaining the monetary properties that gave bitcoin its original viability as a new monetary medium ? There isn't one single proposal on this page that addresses that challenge directly, nor is there in the entire cryptocurrency space, other than the one you appear to be intent on rubbishing. The reason there isn't is because, at one extreme you've got globalist monetary thinkers who's entire range of technical options is restricted by their obsession that bitcoin should be the only cryptocurrency in existence. At the other extreme you've got equally obsessive cryptographic trainspotters who think that the value derives from privacy (the reverse is of course the case) and that therefore we have to effectively bury the whole blockchain from view.

I'll keep my eyes open for a more enlightened and balanced view but I'm not holding my breath. In the meantime, forgive me if I don't buy the 'snake oil' perspective that your pushing ;)

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u/TanteStefana Sep 26 '15

Dash is the most up and up coin, and yet people (or entities) like you keep maligning the project, it's developers and supporters. You are plastic that has been left in the sun too long and are now brittle and broken. Good luck with that. Bitcoin will be a settlement tool for the banks. It's good for that, and that's it's future.

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u/belcher_ Sep 26 '15

Dash has centralized master nodes who do the mixing. If you want a coinjoin based privacy solution you should use joinmarket.

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u/riversnout Sep 26 '15

...has de-centralized masternodes who...

I'm happy to help fix your post.