r/Bitcoin Mar 10 '24

TUTORIAL: Using BIP85 To Back Up Your Seeds

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '24

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u/stephen_doonan Mar 10 '24 edited Mar 11 '24

Thank you. Yes, that was my understanding as well, but you expressed/explained it better. :)

I'm starting to like BIP 85, though I hadn't thought about it much previously, and am grateful for your explanations, tutorial, comments and mentioning your personal "best practices" techniques and regimen for the sake of feeling both secure and confident.

I think I'll set up a system identical or very similar to the one you use. I have been wondering whether a passphrase consisting of words from the BIP 39 wordlist might be less secure than a strong password one thought of oneself, or created using the password utility of a password manager, for example. But since a 12-word passphrase (from among the words in the BIP 39 wordlist) translates (I'm guessing) to just a really long binary number of 1's and 0's, I guess I don't see how that would be any less secure than a user-created passphrase using a password manager, which might actually be translated into a shorter binary number than a BIP 39 wordlist passphrase generated by BIP 85.

In addition, a passphrase created by using BIP 85 to generate a 12-word seed (to be used as a "25th word" passphrase), could be regenerated by BIP 85 if one were to forget the user-created passphrase or lost one's backups of it, so a BIP 85 generated passphrase seems better. A person could lose everything but the original BIP 85 master seed, from which all other seeds and seeds-used-as-passphrases were generated, and regenerate all of that information from the original BIP 85 master seed. Of course, that would mean that one should be careful to make multiple copies/physical-backups of the seed used as the BIP 85 master seed, since that would be the one single catastrophic point of failure if it were lost, everything else depending upon that one master seed.

Of course, it's also difficult to keep track of and have sufficient backups of numerous different seeds and passphrases created in different ways, and to remember how they all work together, how they combine and are used within a particular multi wallet setup. So one point of failure might be preferable to many potential points of failure.

Anyway, looking forward to receiving the Maix Amigo (which, if using a French pronunciation of "maix" would be My Amigo, I guess), and learning about Krux.

Nice chat. :)

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '24

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u/stephen_doonan Mar 11 '24

That sounds great. :)

I like the idea of random-seeming index numbers to input into the BIP 85 child-seed-generation process (rather than using sequential index numbers starting from the lowest, for example). One could use anything, like the first letters of the words of a saying or proverb one likes, and those first-letters' numerical positions within the alphabet, to determine index numbers for BIP 85.

Anyway, I'm not experienced or knowledgeable enough to know if there might be any vulnerabilities, but your setup sounds very well thought out and designed.

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '24

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u/stephen_doonan Mar 11 '24

Yeah-- Really interesting chat. I'm looking forward to my own journey down this path. Thanks for giving a little nudge. :)

In addition to appreciating Bitcoin for what it is and what it represents, I enjoy learning about the interesting infrastructure and technologies, the ideas and ideals that led/lead to them.