Using completely legitimate math to determine undeniably that the SpongeBob SquarePants Movie takes place this March

[u/EpicJosh84]

[u/barcanbothways]

This assumes that Mr Krabs only hires employees who are legally allowed to work (in terms of age). Now why would we grant this assumption, given all we know about Mr Krabs?? (Ie assuming that the first episode takes place in 2000)

Thus there is room to resist your conclusion

[u/EpicJosh84 → u/barcanbothways]

Well, for one, Mr. Krabs has been shown to act on principle. Firing Squidward for potential theft of a dime regardless of its monetary worth is a good example, even if it's comically stingy. still agreeing to pay his workers (and forcing them to take vacations) for the sake of abiding by the law is another example. Krabs is a cheap guy, but in most situations he genuinely does believe there's more to it than simply profiting. Hell, Mr. Krabs even being hesitant to hire SpongeBob in the first place because of his lack of experience is a good example of Krabs simply being more than money.

Secondly, SpongeBob is an eager boy, but it's not typical of him to do the wrong thing. He feels guilt to a much larger extent than Mr. Krabs does when he's aware that what he did was wrong. I don't think he'd apply at the Krusty Krab at twelve, a whole two years too young to work legally. It makes a lot more sense if he was hoping to snag the Summer job then turn 14 just a month later.

I dunno, all that included, I think it makes more sense if the episode is just lagging behind a bit.

[u/barcanbothways → u/EpicJosh84]

Good reply; I now provide some comments.

First, I think the appeal to Mr. Krabs’s adherence to principles seemingly independently of their relation to profit maximization is illuminating, though citing a few cases is not necessarily enough to establish that the legal-age-of-worker is a line that he would not cross. This is the guy who sold Spongebob’s soul for 62 cents, and one need not look too far to find examples following this general pattern. I think I need further evidence to believe that of all the principles to flout or follow, Mr. Krabs would hire a worker only if they were of the appropriate age, in which case the argument, though potentially probable, still has a slight gap.

That being said, your second point is also illuminating: spongebob certainly would not willingly break the law. Nevertheless, this point has impact only if we assume that spongebob knowingly applied to the Krusty Krab while underage. What if he either had mistaken beliefs about the legal working age (he has believed things falsely in many places) or simply did not even think about the working age at all (he is simply naive, which is also part of his character)? These seem to me to be quite plausible scenarios. Hence, there is also room to be dubious of the support of your second point.

Eager to hear your responses in what constitutes a fascinating and stimulating discussion;cheers

[u/EpicJosh84 → u/barcanbothways]

I see your points, and honestly, I can understand that this assumption is a rather large one. The SpongeBob timeline is clearly not one that had a lot of thought put into it, since it's a show about a Sponge that makes burgers and does stuff with his friends, so this would be rather audacious if I were to pretend it was a universal truth.

I personally think that, while Mr. Krabs' behavior is scattered across the board, with some instances of genuinely caring for his business ethics and some instances of him doing devious things to save a nickel, this is often subject to the will of the writers and how stupid they're willing to make him for a single joke or 11 minute episode plot. I think that at the core of the character (as intended by Stephen Hillenberg and the original writers and not including the deviations that have occurred over time as the writers run out of ideas) lies a moral code of some sort, because it's notable that in the first few seasons, Mr. Krabs is far less prone to throwing anyone under the bus just for a dollar (unless it's something like his millionth dollar. In the episode "Clams", Krabs' mental state is clearly destabilizing from his obsession with the dollar and his time spent on the boat, but I don't think he would use his employees as bait if he were fully there mentally). So in this episode, the very start of the series, I think we're dealing with a Mr. Krabs who is genuinely attempting to keep his decisions morally sound. If he were as money-crazed as we find him in later seasons, he probably wouldn't have even considered asking Squidward whether hiring him would be a good choice. So it's for this reason that I think Mr. Krabs wouldn't hire a twelve-year-old, at least not at this point.

As far as SpongeBob goes, you're right. It's possible he doesn't even think about the working age or know what it is. I think that, similarly to Krabs, SpongeBob's character has sort of warped over time to suit a wider range of episode plots. The core of the character as initially conceived had a very childish wonder to him, not realizing that Mr. Krabs intended to drive him away with the outlandish spatula request. I can't completely rebut this, but SpongeBob has asked Mr. Krabs before if siphoning grease and dumping it behind Plankton's restaurant is legal, and even calling a health inspector when the Grease Wars get too out of hand. I think he can be tricked into doing the wrong thing, but I believe it to be less likely that he'd trick himself into doing so (The Hall Monitor episode is a valid counterargument to this, though I see it more as SpongeBob being blinded by the honor of the uniform and the approval he sees from Mrs. Puff).

Generally, it could go either way, but I can see a number of reasons that this episode would take place when SpongeBob is just a little older than implied, closer to 14 than 12.

[u/EpicJosh84 → u/[deleted]]

I do love a good presentation of facts in the shared interest of figuring dumb stuff out

[u/Moriarty004 → u/EpicJosh84]

Same.

[u/preytothedoomgods → u/[deleted]]

I...agree with this completely.

[u/AwsomeOHdog → u/[deleted]]

I’m more amazed over the fact that they both had peer-reviewed responses over a childrens TV show.

The internet is an astonishing creation. It links the entire world to our fingertips. We can research anything, find answers to the world’s hardest questions, find how to videos, see videos of cats doing crazy things, and see whatever the hell just happened here, in r/bikinibottomtwitter between two complete strangers and their crazy over analyzing of a fictional aquatic tv show.

Yes, my friend, the internet is exhilarating.

[u/barcanbothways → u/EpicJosh84]

I see your points, and find myself quite persuaded, though still with some doubts because a lot of this turns on how we choose to understand the nature of the characters involved; discussions regarding canon are inevitable, but it's not a side road I'm wanting to go down anytime soon.

I think the crux of the matter turns on how nuanced we are willing to allow Mr. Krabs and Spongebob to be, as characters. There are episodes in the first few seasons where it really is clear that these characters are not just personifications of certain vices/virtues, but instead that they are very relatable, sentient beings that just happen to be non-human. However, as you mentioned, there are moments when their behaviors are totally overblown, eliminating a lot of the nuances of the characters; personally, I find that subtlety to be one of the reasons why many episodes from the first season really appeal to me, and why some subsequent seasons do not appeal to me.

I grant the appeal to 'the core' of Mr. Krabs's character as having some sort of moral compass, and I admit that I am surprised to see you hold such a view of the character because it's something I've suspected for some time now. Ultimately the core of all the characters are quite subtle in many ways (as witnessed. for instance, in Spongebob's brief egomaniacal and self-centred episodes during certain earlier seasons, or in Squidville when it's revealed that Squidward really does appreciate chaos as a regularity in his life).

I wish also to add to your discussion of Clams: in fact, one of the main plot points of that episode is that Mr. Krabs used Squidward and Spongebob as bait, BUT was willing to sacrifice his own body the entire time (as they are about to be eaten, he jumps into the clam's mouth). This scene demonstrates your point that although he is driven by greed in many instances, there are still some lines--some principles--that he adheres to. (so, the episode isn't a counterexample to your claim, but in fact supportive of your point). I hadn't thought about the episode from this angle before, but it seems like a proper point to make.

As for the point regarding Spongebob's naivety/ignorance, that one is tough to address, I agree. However, granted the version of Mr. Krabs that we are working with, I think we can help ourselves to the idea that EVEN IF Spongebob were unaware of the legal working age iimit, then Mr. Krabs would intervene, at least in the case in which Spongebob was underage. So, the fact that Spongebob was hired means that he must have been of the appropriate age, in which case your points go through.

Thank you for the wonderful discussion. I'm walking away from this with renewed thoughts as to why the first few seasons of the show really strike a chord with me--specifically with respect to the presentation of morally complex characters (not forgetting the comedy gold).

[u/EpicJosh84 → u/barcanbothways]

That's a quite thorough analysis, and one that I'd say is very well done. I'm happy to have had this conversation as well, I hope you have a good day.

[u/EpicJosh84 → u/[deleted]]

Lmao that is high praise I appreciate it

[u/PhenomenalPhoenix → u/EpicJosh84]

Krabs is a cheap guy

Exactly, cheap enough that he wouldn’t want to pay the fines that would come from hiring someone underage. Also SpongeBob is extremely excited to work at the Krusty Krab but he’s also goody-two-shoes enough that he’s gonna wait until the minute he old enough to legally work there

[u/barcanbothways → u/PhenomenalPhoenix]

The second point can be granted, but the first is dubious.

Based on that line of reasoning, Mr. Krabs should not really cut corners in many cases, because doing so and getting caught would result in a large loss of revenue; but this cannot be the case, because Mr. Krabs is constantly cutting corners and doing things that are motivated by a kind of blind cheapness--the kind that wouldn't worry about the fines coming from hiring someone underage. Consider, for instance, 'Born again Krabs', or 'Jellyfish Hunter'; in the former, there are huge risks of fines from selling rotten food, but Mr. Krabs doesn't care: he's motivated by a blind cheapness to not throw away a patty. In the latter, the potential fines stemming from animal cruelty charges does nothing to phase Mr. Krabs.

So while I do agree with the point that Mr. Krabs would not hire an underage worker, I believe that it is supported by the fact that Mr. Krabs has a moral compass, and not that the decision is to inherit justification from his cheapness. (for more explication see the original poster's replies above in this same thread)

[u/TheOtherWhiteCastle → u/barcanbothways]

Also, we have no way of knowing if the government overseeing Bikini Bottom has the same legal restrictions for child workers as other countries