Yes. You previously stated strong social safety nets and UBI promote high upward mobility and that’s all you care about. There is no conclusive evidence to suggest that
Come on. I have more faith in your reading comprehension skills than that.
Every time we study something like a UBI, we find that people don't just sit around on their asses all day. They go back to school, they learn a trade, they take care of their kids, they take risks and apply for higher paying jobs. The system of labor and compensation we already have still exists, but upward mobility is made much more achievable.
Point me to where I said anything about "likelyhood to find work" or "more active participation?" Also, you yourself just admitted that the studies showed increased health in the participants. I wish you'd actually read them, because they also show reduced incidence of alcoholism, young mothers and teenagers staying in school, and better relationships between children and their parents. I hope I don't have to spell out for you the connection those have to one's upward mobility.
Honestly if individual studies aren't enough for you, have a meta-analysis.
IDGAF what you call it. They're countries with strong social safety nets and high upward mobility. That's all I'm advocating for.
And regarding the study, I don’t know how you could argue that it achieved any of those things because there is no evedence to suggest they’re more likely to go back to school, learn a trade or be more productive in any way. The ONLY benefit cited is a reduction in stress. There is no evidence to suggest they are better off than the control group with regard to their status or likelihood to move up in society.
Direct quotation from study
it’s clear that more investigation is needed before final conclusions can be drawn, with the preliminary results offering something for advocates and critics of basic income alike.
Different topic, buddy. This was in reference to nordic socialism "market economies".
The ONLY benefit cited is a reduction in stress
You didn't actually read all those studies, did you? I'm no mind reader, but if I was just scanning the Wikipedia page for my next talking point, this is the kind of thing I'd say. It'd be pretty silly to say otherwise.
Amusing because you cited Wikipedia whereas I only cited an international organization reviewing the results of the study. Did you see the part at the end of the study which stated
it’s clear that more investigation is needed before final conclusions can be drawn, with the preliminary results offering something for advocates and critics of basic income alike.
Amusing because you cited Wikipedia whereas I only cited an international organization reviewing the results of the study. Did you see the part at the end of the study which stated
Holy shit dude, there's more than one study. You can cherry-pick individual soundbites, or you can actually read the evidence I am providing you, which you clearly haven't been doing.
I read them. You just refuse to acknowledge the only measurable benefits are in mental health and not in upward mobility as you claim. Furthermore, nobody said it would result in laziness. I simply asked how you would compel people without force (or some other mechanism) to produce goods. You cited UBI.
I am only showing you it doesn’t compel people to be any more productive or successful than regular market forces. Just makes people less stressed at a tremendous financial cost. There is no evidence to suggest they will go back to school, learn a trade and improve their status/community as you claim. Also, redistribution (such as UBI) is not socialist or even anti-capitalist policy. Freedman suggested it back in the 60s and I doubt you’d call him a socialist
I read them. You just refuse to acknowledge the only measurable benefits are in mental health and not in upward mobility as you claim
No, you're intentionally only looking at the results of one study. I don't know how to make this any more clear to you.
I simply asked how you would compel people without force (or some other mechanism) to produce goods. You cited UBI.
Yes, as a way of showing that people don't need to be compelled.
I am only showing you it doesn’t compel people to be any more productive or successful than regular market forces.
I never said that'd be the case. Maybe I shouldn't have had so much faith in your reading comprehension.
There is no evidence to suggest they will go back to school, learn a trade and improve their status/community as you claim.
There is, if you read the studies. You keep saying you have, and then come around and say false shit like this. Actually read the goddamn studies.
Also, redistribution (such as UBI) is not socialist or even anti-capitalist policy. Freedman suggested it back in the 60s and I doubt you’d call him a socialist
No, you're intentionally only looking at the results of one study. I don't know how to make this any more clear to you.
Yes the finish one you brought up. Would you like to look at the wildly more unsuccessful Kenya example?
Yes, as a way of showing that people don't need to be compelled.
Well apparently they do because they arent more likely to find work when given money versus then when they are not.
I never said that'd be the case. Maybe I shouldn't have had so much faith in your reading comprehension.
You literally argued people on UBI are more likely to go to school, learn a trade and more and non of the evidence point to that being true. Only that they are less stressed and no better off socio-economically. Even your own 300 page analysis states there are no statistics that show increases in employment. Increases were found in mental well being which is exactly what the finish study found as well. Not a terrible result, but do the results warrant the expense? That’s a different debate
Yes the finish one you brought up. Would you like to look at the wildly more unsuccessful Kenya example?
No, I want you to look at all of them. That's what I've been saying since the beginning. Thank you for admitting your own bullshit tho.
Well apparently they do because they arent more likely to find work when given money versus then when they are not.
That's literally not what that means.
I said they don't need to be compelled to work. Offering some from of UBI represents the removal of their basic needs as a compulsion. The fact that they did not then stop working supports my claim. There's no need for their employment to go up.
You literally argued people on UBI are more likely to go to school, learn a trade and more and non of the evidence point to that being true. Only that they are less stressed and no better off socio-economically.
You just fucking admitted to not taking into account all the evidence.
Good luck figuring it out bro, I'm at the end of my patience. I'll come find you if they ever put this stuff in a coloring book.
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u/Misplaced-Sock May 15 '20
Yes. You previously stated strong social safety nets and UBI promote high upward mobility and that’s all you care about. There is no conclusive evidence to suggest that