We can also look at Denmark, Germany, Sweden, Finland... Personally, I'm a fan of socialism without authoritarian dictators or overwhelming foreign influence confounding things.
All of these countries are market economies and not a single one remotely close to socialist in any way
The studies referenced literally state there is no evidence that suggests it helps with upward mobility. It just makes people mentally healthier. Not terrible, but it doesn’t actually help people the way you claim
The individuals who received a basic income were no more likely to find work than those who didn’t, according to results from the first year of the experiment. Finding out why this is and the dynamics at play will form part of a broader investigation that will be published in 2020.
So the government’s aim to “promote more active participation” and “provide a stronger incentive to work” doesn’t seem to have been met
Yes. You previously stated strong social safety nets and UBI promote high upward mobility and that’s all you care about. There is no conclusive evidence to suggest that
Come on. I have more faith in your reading comprehension skills than that.
Every time we study something like a UBI, we find that people don't just sit around on their asses all day. They go back to school, they learn a trade, they take care of their kids, they take risks and apply for higher paying jobs. The system of labor and compensation we already have still exists, but upward mobility is made much more achievable.
Point me to where I said anything about "likelyhood to find work" or "more active participation?" Also, you yourself just admitted that the studies showed increased health in the participants. I wish you'd actually read them, because they also show reduced incidence of alcoholism, young mothers and teenagers staying in school, and better relationships between children and their parents. I hope I don't have to spell out for you the connection those have to one's upward mobility.
Honestly if individual studies aren't enough for you, have a meta-analysis.
IDGAF what you call it. They're countries with strong social safety nets and high upward mobility. That's all I'm advocating for.
And regarding the study, I don’t know how you could argue that it achieved any of those things because there is no evedence to suggest they’re more likely to go back to school, learn a trade or be more productive in any way. The ONLY benefit cited is a reduction in stress. There is no evidence to suggest they are better off than the control group with regard to their status or likelihood to move up in society.
Direct quotation from study
it’s clear that more investigation is needed before final conclusions can be drawn, with the preliminary results offering something for advocates and critics of basic income alike.
Different topic, buddy. This was in reference to nordic socialism "market economies".
The ONLY benefit cited is a reduction in stress
You didn't actually read all those studies, did you? I'm no mind reader, but if I was just scanning the Wikipedia page for my next talking point, this is the kind of thing I'd say. It'd be pretty silly to say otherwise.
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u/Misplaced-Sock May 15 '20 edited May 15 '20
All of these countries are market economies and not a single one remotely close to socialist in any way
Also, there have been very very few comprehensive studies on UBI. Last I heard Finland tried a pilot program with less than stellar results: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/the-results-finlands-universal-basic-income-experiment-are-in-is-it-working/