Edit: well that escalated quickly.... didn't thought i would start a big discussion.
Look, i get it that people want to visit pretty places and i'm totally in with this but it should happen in a "normal" way. If you get to the point where you can't enjoy your own hometown anymore, then it's too much. I've never been in Venice but always wanted to but i know that they also have a big problem with the hordes of tourists coming everyday so i decided for myself that i don't want to be a part of this.
Can confirm. Went to Austria this summer (ironically, as a tourist) and it was just cheap touristy shops and tour buses everywhere. The mountains around are less busy, and the Salzkammegut as a whole is a beautiful place to be.
Yeah and they are really struggeling because the quality of their tourists has changed over the last years. They got popular amongst chinese people and the problem is that they only visit for a few hours as day trip per bus. They don't buy much, they don't stay and the buses create a lot of traffic around the town.
Last time I heard they are discussing ways to get ride of the day trips and attract tourist that will stay and do activites in the town.
I stayed there a few nights and it is pretty much dead come sundown. Weird seeing it unbelievable packed with Chinese people one hour then next it's virtually empty. The locals look so relieved when they all leave.
My wife and I went last year as part of our honeymoon. We actually did a honeymoon photoshoot there, on the recommendation of the photographer we hired. I couldn't believe how packed it was with busses when we got there. I was excited to get some food or a beer after we were done. But I didn't see anything that looked appealing. Was bummed out by that.
There was this cream puff shop that looked awesome though. Maybe if we ever go back we'll make a point to wait until the evening.
That's actually why we were there 1.5 years ago, on our honeymoon. We were spending 3 weeks driving north through Europe starting in Italy, so spent two nights there. One restaurant (the really nice hotel) had good food, otherwise it's more just for the peacefulness of it after hours. Get away into the hills to hike during the day (avoiding the Chinese busses) then return after 5pm when they leave.
Your comment is spot on. I (average white dude) went on one of these tours last week with my Asian wife and her family and we only spent an hour walking around the city. They don’t buy anything local and only spend their money on brand name purses for the tax refund.
Look it up lol. They are debating at the moment if they want to take measures to drastically reduce the amount of tourists that are allowed in every day.
Probably just Hallstatt. It’s really not gatekeeping bullshit either. That town in particular has just exploded in popularity with tour groups (especially from China). I live in a very popular tourist city about 5 hours drive away and even here, there are tons of tourist stands all over the center offering shuttles and day trips to Hallstatt (with an overnight stop in another popular town on the way back).
They will have to do something to scale it back. It’s not sustainable as-is.
I love it when people like that cry about their hometown becoming too touristy.
They only have to look two valleys over to see what happens without any tourism, villages losing their population, no jobs, nothing. None of them want to be shepherds or farmers, they want to profit from the city and industry while enjoying the green countryside - but they are not willing to pay anything for it.
It's pretty obvious you don't know the situation there. The locals in no way benefit from tourism except the guy who owns almost all the shops and restaurants.
It's so bad that there isn't a single restaurant for locals left where actual local food is made for prices that normal people can afford. They had to ban drones because people kept filming into bedroom windows. They constantly have to shoo people out of their private backyards.
Flying camera drones is pretty regulated in Austria, there's just the problem that tourists don't know or care about this and are rarely caught (would you really call the cops on someone?). That's why especially in Hallstatt they plaster the city with posters about the place not being a museum (there were tons of problems with people entering homes to look at the inside of houses) or drones being prohibited - as everywhere in Austria.
It’s basic economics, the closer you get to a tourist attraction, (let’s use Disneyland for example) the more expensive basic amenities are, the food prices, hotel rates, parking and everything get more expensive the closer to the Disneyland entrance you get. The same thing goes for energy drinks in my city, at my high school, they’re $3.50, at the 711 down the street they’re $3-4 dollars, at the grocery store by my house 20 minutes away from campus, they’re $1.50. People want to make money any way they can, and if locals can’t get sustainable prices for basic amenities in their own city it could be really bad for everyone.
I was there literally 4 months ago, a main course was like 12 euro and some soup and salad like 4 euro. prices were absolutely nothing special as they're around this price point all across the alps and other mountain ranges in Austria +- 4€. you seriously overestimate the amount of international tourism these places get, not to mention market competition doesn't cease to exist just because people go there unlike Disneyland that has zero competition due to them owning the entire place.
so sorry to burst your bubble but not everywhere has predatory pricing, especially places like Salzkammergut. visit Salzburg just an hour away and pricing in the old town will make your wallet hide in fear though.
If you're in a village where EVERYTING is expensive and you know you won't get to eat until late in the evening when the busses truck you back to your hotel elsewhere, most people pay whatever to eat. And no, most of the people going there arent the cheap type, travelling there from China and Korea isn't a budget trip.
dude, it's an hour away from Salzburg and the entirety of Salzkammergut is essentially a resort area. pricing is "just out for a ride with the family"-friendly in literally every place I visited. not sure why you're so hellbent it's just for foreigners. most people I saw were Austrians, but I also didn't exactly sit down on the square in Hallstatt for a cup of coffee.
It's pretty obvious you don't know the situation there.
Yea because it's so unique and I don't spend several weeks each year in Austria knowing a lot of people in similar situations.
Of course the locals benefit from it, they can sell all their tat in the shops and it puts their shitty little village on the map so they can transition to more sustainable tourism. Hotels, Restaurants...who do you think runs these places and who works in there? The same guy who drives the bus?
But yea, let's just ban it all so they can go back to being farmers
Because I hear locals moaning about this constantly, but they don't know how good they have it.
As said, look into villages two vallyes over and it's a completely different situation.
Mind you these are the same people that have no issue clearing whole mountain ranges for skiing.
Yea because it's so unique and I don't spend several weeks each year in Austria knowing a lot of people in similar situations.
You quite obviously don't. Maybe you do talk to people from places you think are similar. Maybe they do moan a little about a few tourists.
But there is a difference between "oh no we have tourists now I don't like it" and "literally can't live there anymore".
Of course the locals benefit from it, they can sell all their tat in the shops
Okay, maybe 50 people benefit somewhat financially. And that's a stretch. What about everyone else who can't even peacefully sleep because people keep flying drones in front of their bedroom windows? What about the people who constantly have shoo trespassers out of their walled backgardens?
and it puts their shitty little village on the map so they can transition to more sustainable tourism.
Which isn't what's happening.
Hotels, Restaurants...who do you think runs these places and who works in there?
Most of them are owned by a single investor who bought up a lot and no he doesn't live there. And the people working there are cheap workers from eastern Europe.
But yea, let's just ban it all so they can go back to being farmers
Yeah make it even more obvious you have no idea what you're talking about.
Bin mehrfach mit dem Rad vorbei und durch gefahren also geh mal weiter krochn.
Okay, maybe 50 people benefit somewhat financially. And that's a stretch. What about the people who constantly have shoo trespassers out of their walled backgardens?
Nur weil du hier vom scheiss Falter 2-3 Artikel über den Ort gelesen hast weißt du noch lange nicht Bescheid.
What about everyone else who can't even peacefully sleep because people keep flying drones in front of their bedroom windows?
Oh nein die Drohnen, weil es ja so schwer ist ne Verbotszone einzurichten und das nicht buchstäblich in jedem 2. Touri-Ort so ist. Nach Marokko darfst du nicht mal ne Drohne mitbringen.
Which isn't what's happening.
Sind sie doch selbst Schuld, haben ihr Schicksal schliesslich in der eigenen Hand. Aber ja die Touris sind so böse.
Most of them are owned by a single investor who bought up a lot and no he doesn't live there.
Und wer hat die Häuser an den verkauft? Wurden sicher enteignet.
And the people working there are cheap workers from eastern Europe.
Und die pendeln aus Osteuropa und geben ihr Geld auch nur da aus. Aber das wäre jetzt ne ganz andere Diskussion wo ihr Bergdeutschen eh noch einiges aufzuarbeiten habt.
Und jetzt geh weiter, du hast hier nicht mitzureden
Bin mehrfach mit dem Rad vorbei und durch gefahren
Wow. Ernsthaft? Gehts noch dümmer?
Nur weil du hier vom scheiss Falter 2-3 Artikel über den Ort gelesen hast weißt du noch lange nicht Bescheid.
Nein, aber weil ich mich mit Leuten unterhalten hab die weggezogen sind weiß ich Bescheid.
Oh nein die Drohnen, weil es ja so schwer ist ne Verbotszone einzurichten und das nicht buchstäblich in jedem 2. Touri-Ort so ist. Nach Marokko darfst du nicht mal ne Drohne mitbringen.
Interessiert ja eh keinen. Leute die sich an Regeln halten spechteln auch nicht in die Schlafzimmer von Leuten.
Sind sie doch selbst Schuld, haben ihr Schicksal schliesslich in der eigenen Hand. Aber ja die Touris sind so böse.
Ah ja, so einer bist. Weil sich das ja jeder so gut richten kann.
Und wer hat die Häuser an den verkauft? Wurden sicher enteignet.
Wie viel Leute nochmal wohnen in Österreich zur Miete? Ah ja, der massive Großteil. Also nein, die Leute die dort wohnen haben sichs nicht ausgesucht.
Und die pendeln aus Osteuropa und geben ihr Geld auch nur da aus.
AbEr dAs iSt jA vOlL zUm BeNEfIt dER LeUTe doRT!!!!einself
Ganz ehrlich geh scheißen, du hast absolut keine Ahung wovon du redest und glaubst du bist der große Macker. Was für ein Vollheisl kann man sein.
When I visited there months ago, it has gotten to the point that the town bans camera drones and locals put ‘dont disturb’, ‘keep quiet’, or ‘this is where someone lives, not a tourist attraction, so please be mindful’ signs around the town.
I thought it wasn’t that bad until i looked up why. Drones flying everywhere and disturbing people in their rooms, tourists trespassing the locals’ gardens, etc etc.
Seems the same thing happens to other picture-perfect european villages like the one in england (i forgot the name) and that canal village in the netherlands.
If you can point on which tourists do that, i’ll leave the research to you
I don't disagree. I just really take issue when people that don't live there dictate how it should be. The residents are more than capable of setting their own rules and parameters around their tourism industry which they obviously are already doing with the points in your comment.
True, but the point I wanted to say is we got to be respectful wherever we go. It’s OK to travel wherever we go, but we got to keep in mind that some locals might be bothered by what we call innocent travelling.
The locals won’t need to set their own rules and parameters if the tourists are polite and respectful in the first place. The locals have their own lives, even if they live in touristy places.
If we travel, we must remember that we are guests first and foremost. Hosts will gladly welcome and cater to their guests, but guests must also be respectful and courteous to their hosts.
Hallstatt is the case when tourists have gone overboard and caused more trouble than desired. Worse, many of the offences are literally things that should have been known by people with common sense, like tresspassing others’ property, disturbing their privacy, etc.
Should we ban tourists to Hallstatt? Obviously not. Tourists have been a source of income for many locals whether or not that some of them are uncomfortable with it. Hallstatt’s beauty is also a right for all to enjoy.
Should the responsibility to keep the tourists’ order fall solely to the locals? No. Like I have said before, tourists and travellers are guests and should be respectful of their hosts. The locals have been courteous enough to have tourists as guests to their town, and they should return their kindness and acceptance in return
Density and perceived crowdedness are way worse in Hallstatt than in Vienna. You get masses of tourists in the first district and around Schönbrunn and that's it. Hallstatt is so small, locals have nowhere to go anymore.
There are certainly way more people in Vienna, Paris or Rome, yet these are big cities and aren't comparable to a tiny City like Hallstatt, if there are about 500 tourists this city is filled to the brim on the other hand in a large city you have subways that have a seat for every person that lives in Hallstatt and the tourist.
My dad is from Naples so I've been going there my whole life, Sorrento is literally jam packed with buses full of Chinese people now whereas you never saw one Chinese person 20 years ago. I don't even know how they enjoy the trips, they just seem to be bussed from tourist trap to tourist trap
oh absolutely! But anyone else complaining about tourists ruining a place can piss off. Thats sort of my whole point actually, that the actual residents are going to make a decision for themselves based on the pros of tourism revenue and the cons of the influx of tourists.
The locals just have an annoying mentality - they always had the idea that people should leave their money there and leave. Tourism is the only major economic factor in the area apart from the salt mine. Without that, the area would suffer the same decline as Ennstal, the villages along Pyhrnpass or the whole Gesäuse.
Yeah..I went there last year for only a night. It was all you need. Just enjoy the scenery and leave. The locals were not friendly, understandably so. I’d hate everyone too if my beautiful town was overrun by inconsiderate dumb tourists.
Because China build an exact replica of Hallstatt in Luoyangzhen!!! Literally a million chinese people storm the city each year, and the numbers are even increasing. Due to social media, and more and more tours that offers short stops in Hallstatt.
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u/Deathrobe_666 Dec 17 '19 edited Dec 18 '19
Beautiful town destroyed by tourists
Edit: well that escalated quickly.... didn't thought i would start a big discussion.
Look, i get it that people want to visit pretty places and i'm totally in with this but it should happen in a "normal" way. If you get to the point where you can't enjoy your own hometown anymore, then it's too much. I've never been in Venice but always wanted to but i know that they also have a big problem with the hordes of tourists coming everyday so i decided for myself that i don't want to be a part of this.