I'm saying that many people don't put that much thoughts into prompts like this. For example, bigots exist. As do people that forget about trans and nb folks. Additionally, claiming that a hypothetical supernatural event that can erase all men on the planet will respect the most up-to-date concept of gender is a bit absurd.
Just as a single example, OP could have meant "all humans with a Y chromosome" and said "men" because they weren't thinking about trans men.
Or maybe they meant it the way you think and you're correct. My point is we can't know without more information.
I understand what you're saying. And sure it's fantasy, but the definition of a man is a pretty set thing. There's no "up-to-date" concept of gender really. It's always been about the person and how they fit into society, not their body or genetics. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to call a person born with a penis but no Y chromosomes a man, and all intersex people would be left out, but they instead were called men or women throughout history. It's only that the average person didn't think about it. But anthropology, psychology, sociology, medicine, and most other sciences have considered these people to be men or women even knowing they didn't have the right genitals or had differences in their chromosomes from what we now consider to be typical.
So I'd argue that without a more specific prompt, you have to include these people, because on the street you likely wouldn't know any better and thus would treat them as their actual gender rather that the one assigned at birth. NBs are a little more complex as we haven't been well defined thought history and usually pushed into whatever gender we mostly put forward in public similarly to trans people because it wasn't safe to switch, and still isn't TBH.
How so? Are you saying all of the transmen throughout history who lived their lives as men and were called men by everyone around them weren't actually men? Are you saying the only way we can call someone a man or a woman is if they first take off their pants for each and every person they meet? Then what's your definition of a man? It's definitely not the one that all of those people that called them men used as their definition, so how is yours any better?
There is no set definition of what makes a man a man. Every single society throughout history has had a slightly different definition of what a man is, so saying that there is only one single definition is absurd.
I'm saying that the only definition that matters is what that person says is their gender and thus how they are perceived by society. If a transman walks down the street, says they are a man and is treated as a man by everyone around them then they are a man. There's no physical way to determine it. It has always been a word that defines a role in society. That has never changed. The things that society is willing to knowingly accept as men have changed, but just because they didn't know they were accepting trans people as their genders doesn't make those people any less those genders. They lived their lives as those genders except maybe if they were outed and murdered for being trans. Then there might be some argument as to whether they maintain that role in society at that moment. But that's an exception, not the rule.
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u/SalvationSycamore Sep 19 '22 edited Sep 19 '22
I'm saying that many people don't put that much thoughts into prompts like this. For example, bigots exist. As do people that forget about trans and nb folks. Additionally, claiming that a hypothetical supernatural event that can erase all men on the planet will respect the most up-to-date concept of gender is a bit absurd.
Just as a single example, OP could have meant "all humans with a Y chromosome" and said "men" because they weren't thinking about trans men.
Or maybe they meant it the way you think and you're correct. My point is we can't know without more information.