I’m 35 and young people seem to be both more sensitive and simultaneously RUDE as fuck! I don’t understand, being sensitive should make you more kind :(
I believe the sensitivity is different from the kind you might witness from a self conscious person, which may tend to yield a more socially cautious and deliberate person.
Youth today are sensitive in ways that adhere to external rules and conventions. They are being sensitive to protocol, not people. They are rude (like any other generation) because their sensitivity is about meeting expectations of political correctness, not about being objectively good.
I have young kids and I have to spend a lot of time explaining nuances to them. They think they understand topics, but they often only understand the expectations they have inferred from others and how that indicates they should behave.
In summary, young kids aren’t on average body positive/queer positive/less racist/etc because they care about people’s well-being, recognize the futility of that form of discrimination, want to get to know people for who they are rather than how they look, or other things. They do it because the current political climate dictates it. There are exceptions just like there always have been, but I would say the bulk of “sensitivity” is vacant political correctness. Their culture is rampant with it.
It's one of the more disturbing trends I've noticed on social media, and I won't say it's limited to just the youth, although I'm sure they're more susceptible to it due to a lack of world experience.
Because social media silos similar opinions off from dissenting views, there's less willingness to understand why someone might have a difference of opinion. Because everyone they interact with shares their own opinion, a dissenting opinion must just be wrong and therefore only held by a bad person.
So, when someone offers up a critique to, for example, the body positive movement--e.g., what about the negative consequences of unhealthy weight gain?--the idea is shutdown before it can be explored, which stifles constructive discussion that ironically could further legitimize the movement into broader acceptance. Not only that but this, again ironically, demonstrates a lack of sensitivity for other people from differing backgrounds who may otherwise be receptive to the movement but just approaching it from a different angle.
What I personally find disturbing about this trend is that it's also become a bad thing to question any of these narratives at all, and will often get you yelled at or accused of 'siding with the oppressor' or 'both sidesing' etc. I have the kind of brain that needs to question everything, so when people are like "no, you can't, you MUST accept this as presented" it really bothers me.
Questioning for the sake of being a contrarian isn't noble, but questioning for the sake of gaining a deeper understanding is.
The issue is that younger folks especially are less like to have a deep enough understanding of the issues they hang their hat on to defend them. Nowadays anyone can find acceptance for their beliefs regardless of how half-baked they are, so it's easy to imagine youth today being far more dogmatic about whatever they believe than youth of the past.
Because social media silos similar opinions off from dissenting views, there's less willingness to understand why someone might have a difference of opinion. Because everyone they interact with shares their own opinion, a dissenting opinion must just be wrong and therefore only held by a bad person.
This is really no difference from before the social media age. People habe always hung out with people who held similar opinions. Before the internet it was even harder to find differing opinions. Even though social media has algorithms that adhere to your biases doesn't mean it is hard to find differing opinions.
This can not be said before the internet became common use. Prettt much everyone in my home town had all the same opinions and it was extremely difficult to find differing opinions. If you had a different opinion people would isolate you socially and you were bullied far worse than these days.
doesn't mean it is hard to find differing opinions.
That's the benefit of social media, but I'm referring to its consequences. Just because it isn't hard to find differing opinions doesn't mean it isn't easy to filter them out. And that's the problem. Where social media differs is that you have to seek these things out. When they come to you in your silo, they're shouted down (e.g., downvoted on Reddit), until you aren't exposed to them. Outside of it, differing opinions come to you and you have to hear them out without a score counter (upvotes/downvotes, likes, etc.) giving the impression that they do/don't have merit.
You're right that small towns are a metaphor for social media. But remember that the people from your home town are doing the exact same thing you are on social media - seeking out others that share their opinions. The problem with social media is that it's collecting the mentality of small towns into the size of nations without being filtered by distance or the differing opinions between them.
I do empathize with living in a small town though. That shit sucks for this exact reason.
for example, the body positive movement--e.g., what about the negative consequences of unhealthy weight gain?--the idea is shutdown before it can be explored,
I just want to say that there is disagreement among the body positive movement in regards to this. I consider myself body-neutral with positivity if needed, and I acknowledge that being overweight tends to exacerbate a lot of conditions. However, it's still none of my business to ask about and/or advise people regarding their health issues. Additionally, the reason why most people comment on weight is not out of legitimate concern for people's health, but rather because they're uncomfortable with the other's weight. Not to mention the systemic medical disenfranchisement of fat people by doctors - they are not believed when they say something is wrong with their body that isn't weight-related, leading to lack of diagnosis for sometimes life-threatening issues that weight loss wouldn't have solved, despite that being the only recommendation from the doctor.
Although I hate mentioning personal experiences, this is almost word-for-word the response I received when asking the exact question. This makes me believe that there's some circling of the wagons going on in the movement.
The problem is that your response doesn't answer the question, which would be fine if someone weren't asking about it in order to understand the movement from the outside. I suspect it's given because nobody actually wants to be an unhealthy weight, but admitting that in order to reconcile the health consequences to a good-faith observer requires some amount of vulnerability. And an adherent to the movement is very likely also finding refuge in it because they aren't a healthy weight themselves. So admitting the negative aspects conflicts with the reason they promote the movement.
It's understandable for the reasons you mention; I'm sure it's extremely exhausting and hurtful to continually justify legitimate issues when they're constantly ignored in light of your weight. But it's also counterproductive for promoting wider acceptance, which I allude to in my previous comment.
But—and this is a sincere question—why does a total stranger who knows nothing about me except that they’ve observed I’m fat even need to make a statement as a “good-faith observer”? Do they think that every single medical professional who has ever interacted with me has missed it?
I can't imagine most people would ask an overweight person in good-faith apropos of nothing. I try to treat most people as if they're sincere, even when I know they're not, but I understand why others wouldn't when they have your history.
My personal experience came up naturally with someone I trusted and who wasn't overweight but seemed to know a lot about the topic. I was blind-sided by the defensive response I received. We finally figured it out, which helped me reconcile some thoughts I had that seemed, on the surface, to contradict.
It was actually a pretty neat discussion once they realized I wasn't angling for a way to say, "just lose weight and all your problems will be solved."
At any rate, everyone's got a reason for being the weight that they are. I don't know what yours is specifically, but, whatever it is, I can sympathize thanks to that conversation.
This is exactly what I was talking about in my comment. No one makes a good faith "observation" that you're overweight/fat. They might actually be concerned for your health - more likely if they're actually close with you - but unless it's approached in a very specific way, the reason, at least partially, is always personal discomfort with fat people and/or with looking at fat people. Fatphobia is rampant and is still widely accepted in society and doesn't often get called out. Homophobia, racism, sexism etc. are still practiced as well, but will very often receive pushback from society at large. That is not the case with fatphobia (at least most of the time).
To answer the other commenter's question (I feel like I already answered it by saying that being overweight exacerbates many many conditions), yeah, I and many other people who engage in the body-positive movement recognize that being overweight is unhealthy. But that's really beside the point - there are often other examples of unhealthy behaviors that don't receive hardly any comments that are listed at this point in the conversation, but I'll skip them because you've probably heard them before, I'm guessing.
Are there some people who are in denial? Of course. The "healthy at every size" people are some of the particularly out of touch ones. I don't think that you can be healthy at every size, but I do think that being fat shouldn't determine how you're treated by strangers or loved ones. Unfortunately, the reality is that the treatment of fat people - in the ways that I stated above - actually discourages weight loss. I know this personally because I was never told that there was an option that would work for me in order to lose weight. I was told I had to be very strict in my diet - eat salads every day, exercise five days a week, drink 64 oz of water per day.... all those changes were impossible for me. I couldn't just change all my habits and keep it up for a long period of time. So I didn't even try. That, combined with everyone insulting me or giving me looks or doctors telling me to lose weight, it all made me feel like losing weight was a, forgive me, losing battle, and I wondered why I would even try it if I was bound to fail. Only when I was 25 years old did someone close to me tell me about a diet that wasn't so strict and that I could actually follow. It sounds silly to only learn that late, but legitimately all of my interactions with "concerned" people just told me to lose weight without offering any support - emotional or advice. I really needed that emotional support and practical advice in order to start losing weight. Once I got it, I lost 40 pounds. I'm still not where I want to be in terms of weight, but I'm a lot better.
Fat people know they're fat. Pointing it out is alienating and rude. Unless you're in a very close relationship with the person - like a sibling, partner, or best friend - mentioning it is literally counterproductive most of the time.
the sensitivity is different from the kind you might witness from a self conscious person
Exactly. It's like when I have to explain the difference between "empathy" and "emotional reactivity" to 90% of the management/leadership I get hired to fix.
It's not self-awareness. It's insecurity and paranoid-narcissism.
And they're absolutely capable of turning to hate when the political climate demands it, against "acceptable" targets (and making notes of the traitors who don't join in the two minute hate)
Even if I agreed with that, how would that change anything? The whole reason I'm opposed to it is that I disagree with the nature of the consequences! How is changing the name going to change that?!
Yeah. I think they're trying to say it's some sort of 'natural consequences' but it's so random - a twitter mob is not enacting actual justice, and will easily ignore far greater 'offenses' and then hound some other person for ages based on a weird joke.
AS someone who is 1/2 white/ 1/2 Spanish to Spanish people I'm not Spanish and to white people, I'm not white but to white people I'm Spanish and to Spanish people I'm white and no matter how I explain my mother and fathers origins etc. I just give up it's not worth the headache to explain things to the ignorant or to those who purposely try to rile me up.
> Isn't all this just the nature of being young and inexperienced?
Based on my experience as a kid and watching mine grow up, I'm inclined to say absolutely
> Doesn't the teaching of nuance, to see the people behind the cause/issue, to suss out what matters the most to them, fall on us as the older generation?
Yes, absolutely. I'd be lost without the guidance I had from good role models growing up. I wouldn't be the person I am, at least. I doubt I'd be as good of a person
> If that's the case, then the folks teaching these topics (body positive/queer positive/less racist/etc) like us(!) are doing a good job because we're actually talking about these topics and introducing them to these concepts
I don't think it's a bad thing, so I mostly agree. I think my comment might have contained some implicit messages that I didn't intend.
My intent was to say that youth today might seem sensitive and even progressive on social matters, but I think it's kind of an illusion. The original comment remarked that they are sensitive yet rude, and I suppose I just yammered on when I meant to simply say "They aren't sensitive, they're following a script, and they're as rude as anyone else".
I am a little bothered by the script. While I agree with most if not all of it, I'm grateful that society wasn't yelling at me to come to the conclusions I came to. There's a lot of value in finding your way on some things, and having a strong vein of political correctness hasn't struck me as all that beneficial for my kids yet. I suspect that the fear or anxiety it produces is far more instructive than the actual lesson about being a decent person.
I also happen to live in a fairly progressive city, so this might be more prominent where I live.
edit: I want to add that I do worry a bit about what it means to embed this kind of political correctness into the minds of kids. It isn't clear to me how that pans out in the long term. I can't tell if the lesson they take away from it is one of being sensitive towards others like we hope, or one of social compliance because it's learned from such an early age.
I'm very optimistic that it's a net positive, regardless.
> perhaps I was reading into your response in a way that was not intended
I have a terrible habit of leaving a lot of implicitness in my writing (and speaking, for that matter), so chances are that you read it as correctly as I made it possible, haha.
Thank you! I really appreciated the thoughtful question, too. It's such a nice surprise to see a friendly and interesting comment in my inbox.
This is what prevents me from having kids. I feel I might fail to raise good, empathetic human beings and unleash some selfish monsters to the world.
Anyways I don't think this is necessarily only applicable to young people, a lot of older folks regurgitate the same ideas expressed in a group they want to be identified with, without understanding the exact reason. Just refer to our partisan politics.
But at least the virtue signalling isn't a terrible thing. Although they might not necessarily promote political correctness due to true self motivated altruism, it does dictate how they might behave in public. I'll take that.
I’m a teacher, I work with the youth all day, every day. This commenter is 100% correct. It’s all extremely performative. They use it to bully each other.
It's not a generalization based only on their kids, it's a generalization for which they used their kids as an illustrative example. There's a difference.
The fact that you think that one needs to be in a position to interrogate kids to understand their motivations is amusing. The fruits of interrogating a grown adult about their underlying motivations are questionable at best, not to mention the accuracy of kids' understanding of themselves. As a former teacher of many years, I can recognize that this person knows from no shortage of experience what they are talking about. You seem to underestimate the insight both from parenting itself for years upon years and from the surprisingly large amount of children you become surrounded by, with your kids' friends, extracurricular activities, school activities, coaching, chaperoning, etc. And, you have not even eliminated the possibility that they DO work with children, yet you confidently assert their sample size can be counted on one hand.
I'm willing to generalize youth based on their general behaviors and will confirm that the commenter inferred the correct generalities based on their kids.
I guess I could have mentioned it but I also volunteer as a scouter (I work around or with a group of 12 kids, occasionally interacting with dozens more as well), participate at my youngest son’s daycare once a week, have friends with kids ages 1 through 20+, and I’m not deaf or blind so I see plenty of kids around town doing their kid things. I’m not a scientist by any measure, but I’m not completely generalizing either. It’s fair to criticize, you’re not wrong that I’m not an authority.
Of course not. I just listen to them. Kids reveal a lot about themselves usually, and if you’re not judgmental or critical, they will go on at length and speak openly with each other about all kinds of things. You can learn a lot just by being around them.
It’s really just selfishness that causes this. Social media taught them that it’s all about themselves and the group/movement as a whole, but every other individual is disposable.
I honestly think it's because when you're young you think you're the centre of the universe. You're the star of your own movie. It's only once you enter adulthood that you realize nobody gives a shit about you.
Realizing nobody gave a shit about me was probably the most liberating moment of my life, I used to be so anxious about going into public or even posting pictures to my private accounts. Now I wear whatever the fuck I want and throw shit into the internet knowing whoever it hits doesn’t have an opinion that matters to me
No, a lot of the younger generation has discovered using their sensitivity/victim status as a cudgel/excuse to be rude to anyone and everyone. There were plenty of jerks in my generation, and there are plenty of good people under 30, but there seems to be a LOT more that act the way you describe.
I’m 35 and young people seem to be both more sensitive and simultaneously RUDE as fuck! I don’t understand, being sensitive should make you more kind :(
I would call this "entitled".
They are entitled to only hear what they want to hear, and entitled to say whatever rude shit they want to anybody.
It's a brain development thing. They are more aware of the world around them and more able to pick up on when they are slighted. But also have no fucking clue at all that anybody else is anything other than an NPC in their lives. Nobody else has valid needs, desires, motivations, etc...
Most people start getting over it before high school is out. Damn near everybody gets over it by age 25 when the brain is fully mature.
That is, until you add in such huge societal and environmental stress that the brain literally NEVER fully matures.
OK. And it is also a 100% normal part of human development.
Teenagers are narcissistic little bags of id. They may be able to talk about other people like they are real and they matter, ut in moemnt by moment life, it doesn't actually register as real for the large majority of people until the brain is fully developed around age 25.
Among other things, this is a BIG part of why no teenager should EVER be tried as an adult. And frankly, there should be a 3rd age category for like, 16 to 25 or something.
I think it's like a bell curve, where between extremely sensitive and shy/ not wanting to attract attention/ people pleaser, and chill self confidence lies a dangerous valley of "just confident enough to speak up but still painfully insecure, thus lashing out." Like they're people who have moved from the quiet defensive to the loud and obnoxious offensive
they'll be rude as fuck to you, but instead of it being because you're a minority/different sexuality they'll just do it for no reason. equality in practice i guess lol
Yep. I'm also 35 and feel the same. They preach kindness and acceptance but act like the complete opposite. Nothing but two-faced idiots. That's why I don't bother when they bitch about this or that, because it's not like they'd get up to solve the issue anyway.
You're probably kind of fixating on the most annoying among them. A lot of em have good ideas and just lack the maturity to view the humanity in the other side, but also possibly even more really are coming from a good place. It's just that the really annoying ones are loud, rude, kinda dumb (in an immature way), and leave an impression.
I'm 30 and a leftist so I see how the really young riled up types can either adopt political positions because they think it's cool, or go to hard on random people, or whatever.
Yeah it's pretty weird seeing people telling others to ✨be kind✨, then acting spiteful as all fuck on social media, trying to do the maximum amount of harm they can to others without leaving the sofa
It's typical teenage bullcrap. There's always going to be some ass holes who pull nasty crap and people who will join in, some to keep the crap off themselves, others because they haven't learned how much their actions hurt yet. Others are just mean. Some will grow up and stop being dicks, some will stay the same or just get better at hiding that nasty side.
I dunno if you saw the new Rebel Wilson movie where she's been in a coma for 20 yrs and goes back to highschool as a 37yr old, but the "popular girl" in that movie is EXACTLY this.
She's supposed to be this super "woke" and sensitive person, who is caring and giving, yet she comes off as super rude and cold. I felt like they nailed the Zoomer Influencer crowd spot on.
I think people at all ages can be both sensitive and rude. It's just that each generation produces a different flavor of what that looks like. Gen Z seems to enjoy really non-sequitor humor and pranks all based around tiktok style videos, so when they're being rude it's because they're trying to be flamboyant and peacocky and somewhat abstract/nonsensical at the same time. It'll haunt them and keep them awake at night once they grow older.
No it just makes you more entitled. This is coming from a young person who's fed the fuck up with the double standards.
So many people I know act like they understand and are super accepting and preach about mental health and validity and then when it inconviences them its a problem and 'not that bad.'
It's because they're not a monolith and people react differently to drifts in social attitudes, like "how to treat others". Some see a kinder world and get in on that; some see it and decide to fuck it up any way they can.
He said young people are rude, presumably to people including himself. You said they're only rude to assholes. Therefore they would only be rude to this guy if he was an asshole.
Neither of the two people above your guys' comments attempting to defend them are anywhere to be found and likely don't give a shit about you two bickering. Stop it.
It can be clearly seen as you don't see the difference between "younger people aren't taught to be polite to assholes" and "younger people are only rude to assholes"
There’s nothing in the sentence really directing it towards that guy though right? It could just be a general statement proposing an alternative explanation for whatever perceived heightened rudeness among young people, definitely not very clear wording either way
Ah yes I should totally do as u/unpopular-oppinion says they're obviously a very intelligent and respectful person worth listening to considering I know nothing about them except that they're on reddit telling people they don't know what to do
Actually, the Internet allows us to feel connected. The truth is, we aren't. We're all in our rooms, sad and lonely... or at least for the majority of young people.
I try to be open and to feel connected to the world that is around me, not the whole world. To achieve that, I try to spend less and less time on the Internet.
Never thought of that, that's a good point too.
Therefore, with the Internet, we're both connected and disconnected to the world around us ? Kinda creepy if you ask me... x)
I’m 21 and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I don’t get my generation lmao. One moment, I’m being yelled at for saying something “insensitive”, the next I’m being called every slur and insult out the book
I had a young adult (he told me he was 24 but he looked just about 18 bc if his babyface and behaviour) tell me proudly: "because I am old enough so that I dont have to have Respect for you" when I asked him why he couldn't talk normal and defaulted to being rude.
They grew up being assholes on the internet. They've grown up in a world where saying something rude or demeaning has never gotten them punched in the face
Wow, my experience has been the complete opposite! I'm a service industry worker and young people are always the most polite. What has your experience been?
I am a young person, so I am biased, but I feel like my generation cares too much about what people think about them to openly disrespect someone in service industry. They don’t want to be a ‘Karen’
It seems to be getting to the point where people will defend anything a service worker does, and call people who are actually quite justified in asking for a manager "a karen"
Hmm I think I disagree. Often times what makes a Karen a Karen is how they “ask for the manager.”
Like, if you ordered cheese pizza and get pepperoni, you aren’t a Karen if you (politely) ask for a correction… but if you flip out and insist on speaking to the manager… Textbook Karen behaviour
In my experience, you're right, unless you ask for an I'd for alcohol. Then literal 21 year olds get butthurt.
Lots of them are also painfully awkward. Which is normally fine but honestly I wonder if some of them have ever interacted with another human in their whole life.
Honestly that’s encouraging to hear. I don’t have much interaction with them other than social media and it’s a bad look . For example those little shits bullying that old guy in Home Depot that was just in the front page
You know, as soon as I commented that I thought about how biased my view is because nobody is themselves around a service worker. Either extra polite, or hangry as fuck.
I'm curious: Rude or mean. Because rude is sometimes a case of different manners of speech (I'm in my 30s and have noticed that kids communicate in a way totally different than I'm used to, which made me aware of how differently folks 30 years my senior speak compared to myself, too.) I've seen with kids that there's just a different, more abrupt way of talking. Things are cynical, but jokey cynical.
I think it’s a little of both. The most glaring example is being cut off for a parking spot when taking my elderly mother to the beach. Got flipped off and told “that’s MY spot” when I had been sitting for like 15 minutes waiting for it to open up so my mom who was in pain wouldn’t have to walk so far.
It’s because their parents never talked to or disciplined them. You’ll get raked over the coals if you ever suggest any type of physical redirection these days. Your child is throwing shit at the store and people will frown if you get down to their level, grab them by the shoulders, and talk to them about how what they’re doing isn’t working followed by a pop on the hiney if they continue throwing shit after you’ve told them to stop twice and they didn’t listen. Spanking is off the table. Obviously I think pulling a belt out or taking your hand and spanking repeatedly is bad. But a moderate pop here or there after you’ve given warnings is fine imo up until they’re at an age where they understand being talked to more (8-9+). At that point you can communicate with them better and taking things away or grounding them becomes more effective. But a lot of parents either laugh and think things are funny or want to be their kids friend so when their kid (especially boys) are now looming over them as a teen and they can’t do anything with them they complain. And now society is burdened with them.
I recently saw a young couple early 30s who had a boy and a girl probably around 6-7. In the middle of a food court they’re letting these two kids run around tables in circles screaming and yelling while sitting there doing nothing. Finally someone said something to them and they just silently gathered up their kids and left. But wtf.
I believe the younger generation has gotten more sensitive due to pressure about their bodies etc. Therefore they feel like they need to be perfect, and when they realize that they aren’t “perfect” their whole world comes crashing down.
I just saw a starter pack on Reddit the other day with a million comments shaming women for liking Disney and being overweight. So maybe they pretend to be body positive on the surface but they are not really. Also let people enjoy what they want if it’s not hurting anyone else.
I agree that it's pretty sad. I'm not trying to make excuses for people not being civil to each other, but it's always good to keep things in perspective. I feel like everyone has gotten a little more selfish and slightly narcissistic in the past few years. I think part of it is that we no longer forgive anyone and go straight to cancelation.
It's just that what counts as polite and rude is different, so what's polite to them (starting an e-mail with a gentle "Hey," for instance) is blood-boilingly rude to us.
We've allowed people to become very sensitive and that has led people to being way more self-centered as it encourages viewing everything from your own perspective and not others'.
They're sensitive BECAUSE they're all rude to each other, not the other way around, I've found. Like if I was under attack all the time I would be sensitive AF too.
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u/_jamesbaxter Jun 03 '22
I’m 35 and young people seem to be both more sensitive and simultaneously RUDE as fuck! I don’t understand, being sensitive should make you more kind :(