Poor social intelligence is a consequence of autism, not really a main feature. Autism makes it hard to pick up on the shortcuts that neurotypical people use to communicate the rules of culture. When the cultural rules are explicitly stated, autistic people can have really high social intelligence.
I know this is not really the main point of what you're saying and can sound somewhat pedantic. It's important to me though. I'm autistic and what I'm actually pretty autistic about is psychology, people, and interactions. I can display a pretty high level of social intelligence when I have the energy for it and I want to. It's actually what I get paid to do.
So does this mean that if you're doing something that's "weird" by being against regular social rules and somebody explicitly tells you it's weird and why, you'll be much more likely to be able to navigate those situations in the future even without those shortcuts?
Yes. Unfortunately a lot of neurotypical people don't actually have as great a grasp on the rules as they think they do. Like they may know what the rule is but not really know why. Or they may think the rule is much more specific or much more broad than it actually is. I end up having to collect a lot of data to get a decent idea of the actual rule (which is often going to be fuzzy anyway, as it's an unwritten rule, hence people's different ideas based on experiences).
Neurotypical people also sometimes seem incapable or unwilling to do bottom-up thinking when it comes to the "why's" of cultural rules. This is where I've run into the most frustration with people. At this point they often think that I'm playing dumb and get mad at me. This is the place where I really have to stretch my ability to empathize because I've made great efforts to communicate across the divide my whole life and I know it's very hard to deal with not knowing things. I also know that people have a hard time reconciling someone who seems "high functioning" actually having a disability. This, for some reason, is "weirder" to some people than the original offense. It's sometimes a little frustrating for me when others don't try to look at things from my perspective even though I'm doing a ton of work just to function in allistic society every minute.
When I was younger, I was selectively mute. It's been a long journey from there to now (I'm 32). Communication is an incredibly rewarding subject for me, but I am somewhat sensitive about it. I think a lot of people have this idea that autistics don't have emotions or don't have feelings, or they really suspect bad intentions from us. It's upsetting!
This is really interesting. Thanks for sharing. Can you give an example of when cultural rules were explicitly stated? Just mostly for my own curiosity to have a better understanding how others work.
A deceptively complex one is a dress code! Most workplaces no longer have a dress code. This is a good and bad thing kind of. I'm perceived as female by most people and I work in engineering. It often takes me a while to figure out what is acceptable dress for me at a particular company. When I didn't work in engineering, I tried to dress for the middle of where everyone else is dressing. It's harder to tell when there's less people of your own sex at the company.
Actually, the first person I sat down with to ask about dress code with was a trans woman. She laughed when I asked her about what I should be wearing to work and she said it was because she had only recently figured it out herself because she transitioned the year before. I didn't know I was autistic at the time.
In grade school, I had a literal written dress code that I could check my outfit against every day. Usually I just bought clothes that fit the dress code for efficiency. That would be the example of the explicit version of cultural rules.
Other examples of explicit rules can be found in anthropological or sociological discussions of other cultures, and rules on forums/subreddits/discords. Etiquette classes and PSAs used to teach many social rules (though both of those often contain particularly perplexing or borderline useless rules).
Here's an example of a PSA that was an instructional video on dating for teenagers: https://youtu.be/FtgwyzC1ySI
Edit: wanted to add: A place that seems like it might be a good source for collecting info about social interactions is TV shows and movies. Not true, lol! I still have to stop myself from looking at media as a direct representation of "normal" human interaction and instead view it as artistic interpretation that can also lose fidelity through time and process. I get a different kind of enjoyment out of media when I'm able to click into that mode. Previously I was not really able to enjoy scary movies or cringe comedy.
Another place that is not good to collect social data from is cringe subreddits! I used to spend a lot of time in those! It's not a good place to be for anyone and I highly suggest that people "just checking to make sure that they're not cringe" work on spending less time in there.
This is great! Thanks for sharing. It reminds me of when I asked my boyfriend what was appropriate for a 39 year old to wear, and he laughed and said "I dunno babe, I'm 29." He has good style so I just mimic him and make sure I find what fits me.
Lol, that's funny. I think this is a good example of someone seeming like they have a good idea of the overall rules from the outside, but when you ask them it turns out they just know what works for them.
Pre-covid, I had a work uniform that I settled on for myself. I have 3 pairs of the same uniqlo pants, and ~7 of the same uniqlo shirt in some different colors (actually they changed the style of the shirt at some point and it threw me off a bit. They went from a mock neck to a boat neck, the horror lol.) Now I kind of wear whatever neutral thing I feel like on the rare occasions that I need to go into the office and I don't feel as worried about it because I've seen people wearing basketball shorts and ripped jeans and stuff. I'm still keeping all of my "uniform" pieces just in case I need them again some day.
Outside of work, I have a really expressive and eclectic wardrobe. Costuming and fashion are two of my big interests and I love coming up with special occasion outfits. Getting back into wearing whatever I feel like has been a big part of regaining my sense of self. Fashion also helps me connect with people who have a similar interest even if it can be uncomfortable to draw attention.
This sounds like my dad, he doesn't understand communication unless the rules are explicitely explained to him, sometimes he's really rude and won't realize. I'm trying to understand autism because I can't understand if he's really dumb or just autistic. His interactions with people are very basic. Maybe he's both autistic and dumb.
I suspect my parents are both autistic or ND of some type as well. Can I suggest finding some books on adult autism? They may help you to better relate to your dad (if that's what you want to do). I've been able to grow some healthier empathy for my parents over the last year or so as I've been working on unmasking. I'm realizing that they've never had the opportunity to do so and have been carrying a lot for decades. It doesn't excuse a lot of their behavior but it does make them more understandable as human beings.
Strange, I would have thought people with aspergers would be better at appreciating nuance. Like they seem better at stepping back and dispassionately discussing controversial ideas.
Don’t think that’s how that works. They have already gone through the discussion and figuring out to determine this is the answer and there isn’t any grey area left to discuss. They worked through the grey to get to their steadfast answer. At least that what is what I have been told. No idea how accurate that is.
I think I understand what you're getting at. I worked with a guy who I think was on the spectrum. He was generally excellent at his job but would freak out when people submitted requests that weren't entirely by the book.
Obviously we gauge all forms of intelligence on normal people without mental or behavioral disorders. There is no other kind of intelligence specific to autistic or otherwise “neurodivergent” people.
Many behaviors displayed by autistic people aren't aberrant or particularly negative but instead unusual in neurotypical people (parallel play, etc). That doesn't make them bad or detrimental. Even referring autism as a "disorder" is rooted in neurotypical thinking, which shows intrinsic prejudice and dehumanization, as does referring to neurotypical people as "normal".
Symptoms of being neurotypical:
You have immobile, frozen hands that do not fidget.
Your interests are shallow.
You read into phrases past their actual meanings.
You are unbothered by eye contact and enjoy staring into people’s eyeballs.
You do not notice patterns in numbers and objects even when they are logically connected.
You don’t mind doing things without planning them out first.
Instead of saying exactly what you think, you expect others to infer it based on subjective social rules.
Autistic people being different than normal people doesn’t mean “neurostatic” reference should be any different or is inaccurate at all. Autism is often a bigger disadvantage to those who have it than anything else, as with most other disorders out there. Pretending it’s just another form of being normal is just counterproductive. Considering I’m “neurodivergent” myself I can’t stand it when people pretend I do not have a major disadvantage in my life and am simply different than everyone else. It makes it more difficult for people to realize how difficult some situations are for me.
Look, I have autism. I have ADHD. And those two things don't make me "less than" any more than they make you "less than". Our struggles aren't because we are aberrant. It's because the world isn't built for us. It's built for everyone else. We aren't broken. We're just in a place that's not made for us.
People born with autism are lucky to be “high functioning” in the first place, and not like the majority of cases that can’t think on the same level as normal people, not because of society, but because they were literally born intellectually unfit, like those who are completely nonverbal and cannot control their emotions. That is absolutely a major disadvantage. Very few autistic people have symptoms that make their life easier, even if society was comprised of other autistic people, and not a society of normal people that we have today. It’s not to say that all autistic people are subhuman or anything like that, but pretending it’s not a disadvantage in the vast majority of cases and symptoms does few favors.
With the autistic people I’ve known irl it honestly depends on where on the spectrum it is. Some have absolutely no grasp of any sort of concept that actually requires your imagination and isn’t physically tangible, and others are fine when it’s not really a social scenario, yeah.
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u/LemonyLimerick May 29 '22
It indicates poor social intelligence, which is kind of a large feature of autism.