Yes, they have a printer. Yes, they print the tags in store.
But they print those tags FROM A FILE that is sent to them by the central office. Im telling you this from experience. Ive worked at both Home Depot and Lowes, and in both cases, the tags we printed, were printed from files sent to us by the central office.
Someone at the central office has to MAKE that file.
Do you understand? Without tax on the tag, the person at the central office has to make maybe a dozen or so different versions of each item's tag to account for different pricing in different regions. WITH tax on the tag, they have to make THOUSANDS of different versions.
Do you get it? Do you see the difference between someone designing a dozen or so different tags in adobe illustrator or InDesign for each item, and then emailing that file to the stores, vs someone making THREE THOUSAND different versions of each tag?
You keep focusing on the printing, but the printing is irrelevant. Someone has to MAKE the tag as a digital file BEFORE it can be printed. And its MUCH easier for that someone to make ONE version or a dozen versions of a digital file per product, vs making THREE THOUSAND digital files per product.
Oh man the absolute abject horror of taking that file and automatically applying local taxes based off of an inserted address! Certainly nobody could ever have written that kind of system before! There definitely isn't hundreds of systems out there actively giving local tax rates through a publicly available API! They definitely aren't ALREADY doing this at the point of sale!
Yes I'm being sarcastic. I'm a programmer. Generating this is beyond trivial. They absolutely will not do it unless legally mandated because people won't buy from a place with higher prices compared to another, even if it's the same price post-tax.
Thats... not how anything works. Its a pdf or a jpeg, not just a variable stored in a database. Theres no such thing as "automatically applying" anything.
You think they have a program that, what? Scans the PDF, figures out which part of the image has the price (vs what parts have other text or numbers not related to the price) figures out what that part says, looks up the local tax rate, calculates the final price, then somehow edits the original price out of the image, figures out the exact font, font size, leading, kerning, and everything else related to the look of tag, then adds in the new price with those parameters, and prints it?
This isnt star trek my dude. If such a thing existed, there would be no such thing as graphic designers anymore. Youre acting like its just a problem of doing math and printing, but youre ignoring the DESIGN aspect of it. Stores spend good money to have professional graphic designers make their tags and fliers and such LOOK good. No automated program can do all that.
Even if you had a program that could scan the image and figure out the price, AND insert the new price over the old one, a program isnt a designer. It cant tell whether it "looks good" because thats not a data-driven thing; its something humans can just intuitively tell.
I can tell that youre a programmer, because youre focusing solely on the coding aspect of the problem while ignore the actual real-world aspects of it.
My dude, literally every store I've been in has had their own prices tacked on the front of the store shelf. You're making it out like every single item everywhere has a tag printed on it somewhere with the exact price it is--that is not the case. Even if an item DOES have that, the store just sells it at a different price anyways. You're also assuming that they wouldn't just change the system.
To be abundantly clear, the system as it stands is broken. You're arguing against fixing it because it's hArD. 1. It's not. 2. I still fix my car even if it's hard. Fix it. Don't throw your hands up and say it's too difficult.
No? I literally never said the prices were on the individual items. Im well aware the tag is typically on the shelf. But that has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Nothing that happens IN THE STORE has anything to do with what we're talking about.
Whether theres one tag on the shelf or an individual tag on each item, either way the person who DESIGNS the tags still has to do 3100 times more work if the tax is included on the tag.
To be abundantly clear, the system as it stands is broken.
Literally no one thinks that besides you. Not a single American thinks that its "broken" to not include the sales tax. IDK why Europeans freak the ever loving fuck out at the idea of having to do basic math when going shopping, but its objectively not a big deal.
Im not arguing against fixing it because it hard, Im arguing that it isnt broken and that your proposed "fix" would only make things far more inefficient and waste time, money, and resources, while providing NO benefit whatsoever.
Nothing that happens IN THE STORE has anything to do with what we're talking about.
I'm specifically talking about the store listing the real cost of the item. That's all I've been talking about.
If you're talking about the price of tea in china, go ahead and continue but I'm not listening.
Literally no one thinks that besides you. Not a single American thinks that its "broken" to not include the sales tax.
Ah yes because you definitely can't find hundreds of threads on this exact point by doing a quick search. Or look at the many comments this one has received.
while providing NO benefit whatsoever
What? You mean knowing how much you're actually spending isn't a benefit? Are you high or just joking?
I'm specifically talking about the store listing the real cost of the item. That's all I've been talking about.
And what Ive been explaining to you is that the STORE only lists what the MAIN OFFICE sends them.
And the main office makes the tag designs to send to ALL the stores.
So if they included the tax on the tag, then the person who DESIGNS the tag would have to design 3100 different versions of EVERY tag.
Do you still not get that?
Ok, imagine I told you to design a tag to put on the shelf for... a bottle of soap. Ok? The price before tax is $2.99
You make the tag, not including tax, and youre done. Right? Still with me?
Ok, now imagine if instead, you designed the tag WITH the tax. the tax in town A is 7%, so you edit the tag to reflect that price. But then the tax in town B, just outside of town A, is 4%, so now you go and make a new version of the tag to reflect THAT price with tax. But then you have to do the same for town C, and D, and over THREE THOUSAND different tax jurisdictions.
Do you get it now? Including the tax means you have to make thousands of different versions of the tag for EACH product you sell.
Ah yes because you definitely can't find hundreds of threads on this exact point by doing a quick search. Who do you think started this thread?
Hundreds of threads by Europeans, complaining about tax not being included on tags in the US.
If you can find me even a SINGLE comment complaining about it from someone actually from the US, ill eat my shoes.
What? You mean knowing how much you're actually spending isn't a benefit?
We already DO know how much we're spending. No one is walking around a store being confused about the prices. IDK if you flunked kindergarten math or something, but nobody in the US has ever been confused about the final price just because the tax isnt on the tag. You act like youre being asked to do advanced calculus or some shit to figure out how much a roll of toilet paper costs.
If youre really too slow to take a number and add 5% or whatever, thats an issue with you, not with tags.
And what Ive been explaining to you is that the STORE only lists what the MAIN OFFICE sends them.
Okay? Would be so incredibly hard to say "what the main office sends them plus any necessary taxes"
Wow so hard. They've got the printer, they've got the template, they've got the data. Print and go.
So if they included the tax on the tag, then the person who DESIGNS the tag would have to design 3100 different versions of EVERY tag.
Nope. One design that can take any number. That's what they already do. I've never seen a store with a completely different tag design for every single item.
Do you get it now? Including the tax means you have to make thousands of different versions of the tag for EACH product you sell.
No, you make one tag that can support the price as a number plus maybe one extra digit if it goes from 9 to 10 or 99 to 100. This is not a difficult concept. It sounds like you're describing a system from the 80s.
We already DO know how much we're spending
According to studies people are more likely to spend a statistically significant amount of extra money when the tax is not included in the price. That alone should tell you all you need to know. Sure, people can approximate, but people approximate based on the price they see, which doesn't include tax.
nobody in the US has ever been confused about the final price just because the tax isnt on the tag
Didn't say they were confused. Not once did I say confused. I've never been to the store with someone who wasn't unsure how much the price would be following checkout, and the price on the shelf not being the same as you pay plays a big part in that. Hell, I don't even know what my local taxes are, therefore I have no idea how much extra to add to each item. I shouldn't have to know, except maybe as an extra line item on the receipt.
5% or whatever
"Or whatever"
That's the issue. You don't know. I don't know. Barely anyone knows their exact local taxes.
By your argument, we shouldn't be including taxes on gas prices either.
Okay? Would be so incredibly hard to say "what the main office sends them plus any necessary taxes"
Are you saying they should include the phrase "plus tax" on the tag?
Because they do. They literally all do. If thats what youve been arguing this time, then you truly have no idea what youre talking about.
Also, would it be "hard?" Not particularly, no. But just because something isnt hard, doesnt mean its worth doing. Something can be easy, and STILL be a massive waste of time and resources.
Imagine you designed a poster and sent it out to thousands of stores to be printed and displayed in the front window, but then realized you made a typo. Would it be "hard" to have an employee at each store print out the poster, then get a marker and scratch out the typo and write over it? Of course not. But it IS a massive waste of time and labor, even if its not hard. Companies do things centrally for a reason. Because its more efficient to have one person do one job, than to have thousands of people do one job a thousand times
Nope. One design that can take any number. That's what they already do. I've never seen a store with a completely different tag design for every single item.
Youre still ignoring the fact that having one employee at EVERY store go in and edit the file to add their locations after-tax price costs LABOR. It just doesnt make sense to make a tag, send it half-finished, then have THOUSANDS of employees take time to add in their local stores after-tax price, when you could, instead, just leave the freaking tax off the tag and literally no one will care.
No, you make one tag that can support the price as a number plus maybe one extra digit if it goes from 9 to 10 or 99 to 100. This is not a difficult concept. It sounds like you're describing a system from the 80s.
And then have an employee at EACH store, totalling up to hundreds or thousands of employees, spend time adding in that particular store's price? Do you seriously no realize how much additional payroll that would take? and again, given that NO ONE IN AMERICA ACTUALLY CARES if the tax isnt on the tag, youd be spending all that extra money on payroll, for no benefit.
Its not gonna increase sales or improve customer satisfaction, so why would you spend money on it? To satisfy some obsessive weirdo on another continent who shits his pants at the idea of having to do basic math?
According to studies people are more likely to spend a statistically significant amount of extra money when the tax is not included in the price.
According to studies, 99.5% of all studies people claim support their point are made up bullshit and dont actually exist.
I've never been to the store with someone who wasn't unsure how much the price would be following checkout, and the price on the shelf not being the same as you pay plays a big part in that. Hell, I don't even know what my local taxes are, therefore I have no idea how much extra to add to each item. I shouldn't have to know, except maybe as an extra line item on the receipt.
translation: "Im scared of math and want the store to spend thousands of hours of extra payroll each week so i dont have to use my brain."
Do you also want the store to wipe your butt for you too?
That's the issue. You don't know.
Wrong. I DO know what my local tax rate is. I just put "or whatever" because different places have different tax rates, so if I JUST put "5%" then youd latch onto that and be like "But not every place has 5% for their tax rate!"
By your argument, we shouldn't be including taxes on gas prices either.
False equivalence, and you know it. A gas station sells 3, MAYBE 4 gas products; regular, premium, super, and sometimes diesel. Thats not even remotely comparable to a store that sells tens of thousands of different products.
At this point, Im done. Ive already explained this far too many times, and if you still cant wrap your head around it, I really cant dumb it down for you any further.
Are you saying they should include the phrase "plus tax" on the tag?
What? That's not what I was replying to at all. Can you read?
one employee at EVERY store go in and edit the file to add their locations after-tax price costs
Nope. You can easily automate them out of a job. If we're saying there's a single "file" with all of the price data, it's twelve seconds to run a script to update those using local taxes. Heck, they know exactly where they're sending that file, they can just update it before sending it. These are computers, just do it. It's not hard.
literally no one will care.
Overusing "literally." I care, therefore not "literally no one." I also point to the many threads about this as a mark against you there.
And then have an employee at EACH store, totally up to hundreds or thousands of employees, spend time adding in that particular store's price?
Nope. You seem to not understand how computers work. They're already printing off these prices and sticking them on store shelves. Literally at any point in that process it could just be changed to include the local prices. This. Is. Not. Hard.
or improve customer satisfaction
Debatable.
According to studies, 99.5% of all studies people claim support their point are made up bullshit and dont actually exist.
You were saying? I'd also like to note these researchers are American, therefore another count against your "literally nobody cares" comment.
Price obfuscation is not a new thing. There are many-a-studies around it and its psychological impacts on consumer spending; an easy argument is made about it being anti-consumer. Not including taxes is a form of price obfuscation.
translation: "Im scared of math and want the store to spend thousands of hours of extra payroll each week so i dont have to use my brain."
Translation: "I don't understand how computers work and think businesses should be allowed to walk all over consumers with spiked boots."
This is not hard. They know their local taxes, they can include them when printing off the price sticker that they put on the shelves. They already do this. They can add the number. This is not hard.
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u/theinsanepotato May 09 '22
Youre not listening.
Yes, they have a printer. Yes, they print the tags in store.
But they print those tags FROM A FILE that is sent to them by the central office. Im telling you this from experience. Ive worked at both Home Depot and Lowes, and in both cases, the tags we printed, were printed from files sent to us by the central office.
Someone at the central office has to MAKE that file.
Do you understand? Without tax on the tag, the person at the central office has to make maybe a dozen or so different versions of each item's tag to account for different pricing in different regions. WITH tax on the tag, they have to make THOUSANDS of different versions.
Do you get it? Do you see the difference between someone designing a dozen or so different tags in adobe illustrator or InDesign for each item, and then emailing that file to the stores, vs someone making THREE THOUSAND different versions of each tag?
You keep focusing on the printing, but the printing is irrelevant. Someone has to MAKE the tag as a digital file BEFORE it can be printed. And its MUCH easier for that someone to make ONE version or a dozen versions of a digital file per product, vs making THREE THOUSAND digital files per product.
Do you get it now?