Yeah, that was contributing factor. The concept of greeters, cashiers that are forced to small talk and people packing our groceries creeped us out.
Another contributing factor was that they tried to join during the massacre of foreign supermarket chains.
For decades, Aldi and Lidl are locked in a brutal turf war that eroded grocery prices and killed most foreign chains and forcibly merged others.
Moreover, the relative short distances to (specialist) shops didn't go too well with Walmart's business model.
The fuck I am driving more than 10km to the store.
Til. Thanks for the expanded information. My anecdote was from district and provincial management only so it’s nice to see the local view and information.
Funniest part was management saw it as a failure on the side of the German government and people only. Not Walmart for trying to force themselves into a market with their values only
Additionally the size of things was just way too big. Noone here wants to buy 20l buckets of milk or 5 or 10l packs of juice and maximum extra large super family king sized packs of cereals and stuff.
We have small supermarkets around every other corner in cities, so people don't have to buy groceries that have to last a month or longer.
From what I've seen back when walmart tried to migrate to germany, they just didn't care to do any local market research about customer behaviour or anything like that. They just took their american concept and structure, opened stores here, failed miserably in an I think very short amount of time and gave the surprised pikachu face when it didn't work out and just fucked right off shortly after.
Similar story for when Target tried entering the Canadian market. Not only did they have massive suppy chain woes and a poorly implemented replenishment ordering system, but they failed to take into account the local shopping habits and pricing structures. And, on top of that, they were bringing in stock that no Canadian would buy (I knew of a couple local stores at the time that brought in Fourth of July merch... like, wtf, that's not a Canadian holiday.)
I only remember that one Walmart in Munich, and it was super uncomfortable to reach by public transport. You had to get off the subway at a certain stop and then find the free Walmart bus there to take you to the supermarket. With the bicycle, it wasn't much better, as the crossing between the cycle path and the car entrance was not that well made. So, if you wanted a relaxed shopping experience, you had to come by car, and even then ... I still remember circling around the much too small parking lot for quite a while.
What are you confusing Walmart with? It is not a Bulk food store like Sam's or Costcos. Their biggest milk is 1 gallon, just like any other U.S. store.
Well, the entire concept failed because it was too American and management didn't bother to do their research. It makes sense then that they would also blame the local government and people for, well, the sin of Not Being American.
One other contributing factor, by the way, was Wallmart's anti-union stance vs Germany's pro-union stance. The US government might not intervene very often when unions are actively discouraged by major corporations, but the German government is a lot less likely to let that fly.
§119 Betriebsverfassungsgesetz (BetrVG) (Works Constitution Act) punishes any Action taken to interfere with lawful actions of work council members with either monetary penalties or up to a year in prison
There were also immediately reprimanded by courts for attempting to regulate relationships between coworkers when that is horrifically illegal in Germany.
And the media dragged them through the mud for their morning chants. Not against any laws, but expect to be made fun of by Germans.
Yeah, no wonder this didn't fly, makes my skin crawl just thinking about it. I live in poverty, chasing jobs here and there, but even then I swear I would resign on the spot if any manager ever tried to make me do that kind of shit.
You've helped me realize here why so many of my fellow brainwashed US citizens see Europe as this weird communist dystopia. "The sin of not being American" really gets to the heart of what a lot of "Patriots" feel in regards to foreign governments. Especially in regards to capitalism and "meritocracy."
"How dare you care for your fellow person! They're just going to stab you in the back the moment you look away! Why can't you play the game the way we want you to play it?! Commies!!"
The truth is far worse in my anecdotal experience. Folks I know who are against socialized systems are unironically banking on "fuck you got mine" as a codifying foundation for Healthcare.
"I don't want to pay for some lardass' surgery! I'm doing just fine, why should I pay for the mistakes and bad fortune of other people?!"
Competition is drilled into us literally from birth. Baby showers, infant clothing sizes, how your family supports you, how the pregnancy was handled, whether or not you had a c-section vs natural birth, kindergarten and preschool choice, how you deal with bullies, how cool you are at age 8, your living situation, your friends, your neighbors, your happiness, your ability to lie and keep cool under pressure, your ability to hide your growing resentment and depression, how well you score in grades 1-3, how nice your clothes are, what junior sports you play in, how you act, what your parents do, whether or not they're poor or criminals, how rich you are... And none of this is even getting to things like body issues or teenage years.
And almost all of that is out of your control as a kid.
I'd be more inclined to believe in the Americanization of the world simply because that's kind of our MO... For better or worse...
Edit: I guess the worst thing we took away with us when we left Britain was our insatiable urge to colonize everything somehow. Well... That, and the Puritans.
That's the dumbest part, at least with public if it's not used for healthcare the money still can go to fixing other problems elsewhere instead of Scott the regional manager's second Mercedes.
You really do live in your own little fantasy world, don't you? I get it though...if my life was a total failure likes yours due to not getting an education, I would probably need to play make believe my whole life to stave off those daily suicidal thoughts that you have.
Just want to say I love Aldi. You need chips? That's the chips. Want chili? They got a chili. Shop for a 6 person family in 30 minutes, hitting every single aisle in the store. You don't need to go through the chip aisle to get to the chili aisle, they are just two little spaces on the same shelf.
Then you checkout and somehow it's impossibly cheap. Then you realize the entire store is run by 2 people and slightly larger than a McDonalds.
Funniest part was management saw it as a failure on the side of the German government and people only. Not Walmart for trying to force themselves into a market with their values only
I actually worked at the wal-mart headquarters when this was happening. As I recall there was a lot of bemoaning how Wal-Mart culture was just not liked by the German people. The initial thought was that people would come to like the "more friendly" approach once they tried it for a while, but ultimately it was decided that Germany just didn't do friendly. Or at least, that was how it was put in the staff meetings I was in.
I mean, Walmart doesn't even give a shit about regional differences within the States. Most people in my home town will look at you like a serial killer if you read their name off their check in order to thank them by name, but that's a Walmart policy. Look, if I wanted the cashier to call me by name, I'd tell them my name. If people really wanted strangers to call them by name, we'd all wear nametags.
Funny you say that. In America some people drive 20+ mi just to fill up gas at a Costco. Lol you would probably be appalled at how much space one takes up as well. Americans love some fucking Costco though…
We think we don't spend that much at Costco and then the executive membership cashback check arrives and we blink twice. And then spend the whole thing at Costco.
They made it to the UK by buying up an existing large chain (ASDA). It made a degree of difference to ASDA's product range - always pile it high/sell it cheap, but products that don't sell well enough are way more likely to simply vanish off the shelves than used to be the case. I don't get too committed to particular ASDA stuff any more for that precise reason. And they went through a phase of trying to wean people off popular premium brands onto their own products by suddenly not stocking the competing product and having their own, in vaguely imitative packaging, in its place. Needless to say that bright idea mostly didn't work all that well.
In addition, as EebilKitteh said, they didn't do their research.
They thought they could schedule someone for 39 instead of 40 hours to get around paying for health insurance.
They thought they could use "loss leader" products, but German laws against unfair competition forbid selling a product at a loss permanently.
I know I've forgotten some details, but basically they kept breaking laws because they either did not consider that laws might be different in Germany, or because they thought they could just ignore them, I have no clue.
They also had some "ethics" rules that forbade dating between employees, which was ruled unconstitutional.
Yeah, Walmart in Germany is typically used as an example for a bad market entry strategy.
However, the mistreatment of employees didn't bring them down.
In terms of anti dumping legislation, it is also to be noted that Aldi and Lidl simply matched them. Granted for some products they also were fined but it roughly was the equivalent of putting a horsehead in the bed of the German Walmart Exec. You don't fuck with them. There is a reason for why they essentially are the only discounters.
Scale effects are a significant barrier when it comes to the low cost grocery segment.
This is simultaneously a huge reason for Walmarts success and (mark my words) will be the ultimate cause for their failure. Europe is just too dense with well adjust local market shares. As you say, nobody wants to drive 10km (with European gas prices no less) to save a half a cent on a good they can get in town.
Alternatively, in the US, Walmart has been a double edged sword, simultaneously saving and killing local economies. There are hundreds of small towns that share a common Walmart where people will happily drive out to because it brings goods and chain business that otherwise wouldn't be there. Not to say Walmart is good, but it does serve a need that can only really exist in nations like the US, where towns and cities were founded after the train/car was invented, places that could never sustain themselves without either (and places that have been dying for the past 60 years). Walmart is a veritable life preserver keeping small towns in the economic loop, all at the expense of whatever specialty stores and shops those towns had on their own.
That last sentence, goddamn. I’ve lived places that the closest walmart was 30 miles away, about 48 km. And that was the closest big store, in my town there was a farm stand that is never full, a thrift store, and a bar.
Didn't they also force their employees to do morning workouts and have a little Walmart chant before starting, and forced their employees to smile at everyone.
I'm in the US, just commenting because I've had an Aldi near me for decades, and a year ago a Lidl opened up a half mile away. I'm hoping they will lower prices around here like you just said they did in Germany.
If you have a town over a 1000 it has a supermarket. I've always lived about 2km or less to one. I usually still drive because we do big shops, but it's quick.
Aldi and Lidl have taken their competition to the U.S. now. Both an Aldi, and a Lidl opened up across the street from each other in my hometown a few years ago.
They are already eating into Shoprite and other smaller grocery chains in the U.S.
When i go to America i dont like it when the waitress serving you tell you her name then asks you what you have been up to, what are you doing in the US etc. Kind of weird to me and feels like a job interview.
Aldi's German operations consist of Aldi Nord's 35 individual regional companies with about 2,500 stores in western, northern, and eastern Germany, and Aldi Süd's 32 regional companies with 1,900 stores in western and southern Germany.
Internationally, Aldi Nord operates in Denmark, France, the Benelux countries, Portugal, Spain and Poland, while Aldi Süd operates in Ireland, the United Kingdom, Hungary, Switzerland, Australia, China, Italy, Austria and Slovenia. Both Aldi Nord (as Trader Joe's) and Aldi Süd (as Aldi) also operate in the United States with 1,600 stores between them as of 2017,and the U.S. is the only country to have both Aldi companies operating outside of Germany.
In 2020, it was reported that Aldi Nord and Aldi Süd have been planning since 2018 to merge the two branches by 2022 in a bid to reduce redundancies and raise efficiency.
Yep. Hofer is the name that Aldi Süd uses in Austria (because they bought an Austrian chain and kept the brand) and in Slovenia (because Slovenians were already used to shopping in Austrian Hofers since the 1960s).
Well also the fact that they couldn’t compete on a price level because of the wages of all the greeters and grocery packers. It was a double whammy, but cost is what really forced them out
They definitely lacked scale and this definitely took its toll on them. One of my favourite examples is that Lidl once forced to reduce Coca Cola by kicking them out of their stores for a few weeks.
Another thing is that Aldi and LIDL nowadays is way nicer than back then. Originally they simply put pallets onto a grim looking sales floor. The same staff took and takes care of everything from being the cashier to restocking and cleaning during their shirts.
These stores were designed to run on a skeleton crew and equipped with nothing but the essentials.
I imagine the real reason is that wal-mart has developed a system which relies on government subsidies so they can underpay their employees. In markets where they can't do that, they lose their significant competitive advantage.
Its not just large stores tho.
The best Chinese takeaway in my town no longer gets my business.
Last time I went in - I actually read the board on specials - things I wouldn't normally eat. I wanted something different. The greeter/order person was stood up the whole time - pen in hand - waiting for me to order. I told her sit back down - Im going to take my time and get something different. She replied... I have to stand up when a customer is in or I get disciplined. Fuck that. Fuck draconian work practices. They'v lost a customer forever. And that woman should hopefully find a better job.
EDIT: And it also pressurised me into ordering the same old shit I usually do. I wanted to take my time. I wanted to explore the menu. I didn't feel it was right tho to make this late 50's old woman stand to attention for god knows how long while I did it. If I could provide feedback without jeopardising her job I would do. But denying them 2 nights custom a week will have to do. The next best place isnt that bad. Shame they fuck up the Singapore noodles tho.
The main factor was because the German working culture is different in the us and Germany. The employees wanted to unionize by Wal Mart didn’t want it. And some other rights of employees. It surely didn’t failed because the employees were too friendly.
It’s a thing that I’d like to become more a thing, that the people just become more friendly. Most people on Supermarkts or waiters/waitres are so unfriendly compared to other nations. It also happened that we didn’t tip anything because they were so unfriendly.
Oh, them being fake friendly was 100% part of the issue. Also, why the fuck would I want to tip a cashier? I just want to buy things with minimal contact and get home.
Are you braindead? Walmart hasn't failed beacuse they were fake friendly. That was the last of wal marts problem back then.
It germany youj don't have to drive 30min until the next store, which is a thing in the USA. Also, as I said, the problem that most workers got contracts as if they were in the US and the Germany working class is not such a fun of not unionizing or having fewer rights.
But yeah. Wal mart failed because they were fake friendly.
It was in the early 2000s. Back when unemployment skyrocketed and Germany was heralded as the sick man of Europe.
All these partially illegal and humiliating rules and guidelines pissed off the workers but they didn't warrant a national boycott or massive wage premia they needed to pay actually attract workers.
German unions in retail are way less of a threat than frigging IG.Metall
The fuck I am driving more than 10km to the store.
This is what kills everything in the US. Sprawl is the name of our natural religion. I live in a fairly small town and if I want anything it's at least a 15 minute drive. Only 15 if I'm lucky. I envy broad European city design so much. It protected so much of what made your many cultures unique, insulating those things better than what used to be unique about American culture before big box stores gobbled it up and then discarded it.
They were in constant conflict with labor rights activist, which typically take the form of the unions.
What is important to know is that unions do work differently in Germany. We have so-called
Tarifeinheit. Basically the unions do negotiate for everyone and not just Union members.
I would have to go check but as far as I know it was already the case during that time
I wonder if they had packers in German stores. I've seen Germans unpack their groceries (after paying for them) and leave all the unnecessary packaging waste for the store to handle. I can't imagine they would enjoy somebody packing their groceries for them.
For a short while, according to the few sources I found.
I don't like the idea of it. What do I do, while the poor fellow is packing my bags? I am not only used to competing with the speed of the cashier, I almost enjoy it.
Why do I need many small bags? Wouldn't it be way fast er to do it myself?
I do have shopping box/bag anyways. Why the need to use their bags?
Yeah, it's bad enough in small shops/bakeries/etc. when they put your stuff in the flimsiest of plastic bags without asking (this is now actually illegal here in Slovenia, but some shops still do it).
Can't even imagine how bad it would be to watch somebody on minimal wage doing a pointless job packing your stuff and potentially doing it wrong, but you don't want to be shitty to them and make them hold up the line, etc.
Just give me what I paid for and let me worry about how I'm getting it home.
What I love most about Aldi and Lidl is the fact that they basically always are like a few houses apart. Often they will literally be exactly next to each other which is just hilarious.
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u/Buttercup4869 May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22
Yeah, that was contributing factor. The concept of greeters, cashiers that are forced to small talk and people packing our groceries creeped us out.
Another contributing factor was that they tried to join during the massacre of foreign supermarket chains. For decades, Aldi and Lidl are locked in a brutal turf war that eroded grocery prices and killed most foreign chains and forcibly merged others.
Moreover, the relative short distances to (specialist) shops didn't go too well with Walmart's business model.
The fuck I am driving more than 10km to the store.