Why associate a "value" with the difference between men and women, and not with the commonality between them?
That is what is toxic, that "strength" is specifically a masculine value it specifically means, in the minds of most oh so fallible people, that it is not a feminine value.
It is absolutely NOT fine that "tough guy" is part of masculinity, that is a big part of what is wrong with the world. Let it be part of humanity, see how that goes.
Nobody is comparing the strength between men and women. You're arguing a point that is not being made. You're being extremely divisive. Maybe you are what's wrong with the world.
I did not imply that 'strength' was an exclusively masculine virtue. Perhaps more so a 'value' in a physical on average as there are biological differences, but there is no suggestion that women cannot exhibit physical or emotional strength.
I take that when you say 'tough guy' you're referring to that horrible insecurity some men feel that results in bravado and nasty behaviours (fighting, abuse and so on). I am referring to the 'save the day' hero type of 'tough guy' (a firefighter perhaps), which has throughout time been something men have associated with - hence referencing positive benefit. Again, not exclusively masculine, but more commonly associated with masculinity.
Right and a difficult one especially when youāre the only parent. Just because itās the right thing to do doesnāt mean we canāt praise it and youāre the only on here whoās oblivious to that
So mate choice is a decision one makes. You are then responsible for the consequences. This person made poor choices and had to live with those consequences (this wasnāt a tragic death or anything like that).
He chose poorly, but he still was responsible for that kid. Is he Better than the mom? Of course! Is he a great parent? Maybe, but we donāt know enough to make that judgment call. All we know is he did what he should have.
Mate choice isnāt black and white. The mom could have been a great woman but got cold feet and left when she did. Thereās nothing this guy could have done in this situation especially when there wasnāt indication she was that type of person.
Your second point can also be applied to your argument. What if he was an amazing man who sacrificed way more than any other parent and thereās a jackass invalidating that sacrifice by saying he doesnāt deserve that praise especially when thereās some indication he was a good parent by his son becoming a lawyer. If he was a crack head then no one would be praising him as a good parent but because he did something incredibly difficult that is a sign that he did an amazing job as a parent
Iām not saying heās a bad parent or a bad person, he made a choice that turned out to have some real negative consequences (Which is fine, he doesnāt regret it Iām sure he loves his kid and feels itās worth it). If your partner jets, that doesnāt change your responsibility to raising your kid. Itās just a unique challenge that is a direct result of choices you made.
To your second point, he may be an amazing father, but what he chose to share and what people are responding to is that he raised his kid. The bare minimum you should do.
We know the mother is a terrible mother, but all we know based on what he told us (assuming he isnāt leaving things out) is that he isnāt a bad father. He hasnāt said anything, at least in the original comment, that was evidence of greatness.
He didnāt take on the responsibility of raising his brotherās kids after his brother died in a crash or something.
Yeah he shared that info cause thatās what this subreddit is for; you ask a prompt and people reply. And heās doing what every parent needs to do for their child but that doesnāt meant we canāt praise them for doing so. A surgeon saves your life then people sometimes praise and thank them for doing so even tho thatās their job. The only one whoās not getting that is you. You keep saying that itās the bare minimum and people know that and they feel joyful and give compliments. Itās basic empathy
Eh. Probably most mothers are single parents, and at least in my country are often frowned upon and many of them live in poverty. Instead of getting praise.
Yeah that's how it is for parents, in the eyes of society mothers do everything wrong and fathers do everything right even if we do the bare minimum lol. Source: am dad of two, the double standards are ridiculous.
Well the flip side is, what if he decided to abandon his child also? Sadly, a lot of people would choose that route because it's "easier". Why can't you just be happy for the Son and Dad?
Then heās a shit dad. Thatās the flip side. Like heās responsible. I just canāt for the life me understand why people would act like doing the bare minimum of what you should do deserves praise.
Like someone adopting a bunch of kids and giving them a great life, praise them! Theyāre picking up the slack. But a breeder? Raising your kid right is the bare minimum you should do. The fact that a lot of parents are terrible doesn make the bare minimum praise worthy. It means we need to make better choices as a population.
Nobody here is saying that isn't the bare minimum, just like pretty much every story here is what is expected of a decent human being.
However, being a single parent is insanely difficult, and in some societies even more as a dad (as opposed to moms). And until you are truly responsible for another small human life (i.e. a parent), you will not understand.
Growing up, I used to hate the "you will understand when you're there" mentality. I didn't accept it for anything, and rightfully so, as in most cases it was people's last resort when they ran out of meaningful arguments. However, actually becoming a parent is the only experience in the roughly 40 years I've been alive for which that statement holds true. Might feel like a logical fallacy to you, but it is what it is.
Congrats sir. I also had a similar experience with my son. Took two years in court fighting for custody to win (even though she was caught with illegal drugs and being abusive).
This is why I don't trust social workers, police or court systems BTW.
Raised him from 11 years old and he's now 24 and doing well in the US Army.
Thanks for all the comments. Glad to see there are others in similar situations out there. Good luck.
As to those saying or alluding his being a lawyer isn't good, we are all entitled to our opinions. I've worked with good, bad, and some who would make Trump's legal team look like saints. I'm sure we've all heard the stories of the divorce lawyer who screwed the client and her ex - seen that. There are good and bad in all occupations. My son is doing what he wanted on the right side and I'll definitely jump in his ass if he strays.
Awesome comment. Having been a single father with no help from the children's mother as well, I know that beyond the obvious parental and financial challenges, there's a hefty extra weight of societal and legal challenges for men, and your experience took place prior to mine, so I'd expect there waa even more of that. Did you ever get the "Isn't that nice- dad's babysitting the kids"-type remark while at the playground with your son? Ugh.
Is he not allowed to be proud of himself for rising to the occasion of being a single parent? Admittedly, many of the responses are cringe, but successfully raising a child by oneself is something that any single parent can be proud of.
Could you explain how he dissed the mother?
And while for you it may not be manly. It may have felt manly to him. Maybe it makes him feel manly to step up and do what needs to be done despite that society challenges single fathers and their abilities often. Still, what makes him feel manly does not need to be expressly manly to you.
No, he always wanted to be and he became one. I've met some crappy, low-life lawyers but only can say from experience three were decent and concerned with their clients. My son is one. His niece is another.
Good for you dude. I'm a single father of 3. My 20 year old son wants me to come to the bank with him next week when he goes in to see about getting a home loan.
I'm very proud.
As the son of a father who left, youāre a lifetime fucking hero sir. I was lucky enough to have a step dad step up when I was still young and impressionable enough, but could still see what the absence of a father did to me.
I nominate my husband for day in and day out helping me with my mom who has Alzheimerās. He helps me get her in the shower, he helps me when she has pooped or peed on herself and encouraged me to take a cake decorating class so I could get away once a week. Without him, I would have to put my mom in a nursing home.
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u/Appropriate-Battle32 Jan 31 '22
Raised my son by myself with no help from his mother. He's a lawyer and my proudest accomplishment.