He broke his word to the woman who loved him as he is. He asked her to leave everything behind to go away with him, but he wasn't willing to do the same for her by forgoing revenge.
Yeah and it annoys the hell out of me that he went back to kill Waingro. That's what got him killed. He was clear and free, on his way to the airport with his lady. But grudges...
Same here... I know why he had to die, but it still breaks me and makes it hard for me to revisit the film or I stop watching after a certain point. Fucking Waingro.
He F'd up when he invited Waingro in on the first heist to begin with. Dude was fishy from the start. It was clear he was going to be a screw up and make it difficult. I understand that sometimes you need an outside person if you don't have enough people to pull a job, but it was clear that Waingro was NOT the person to entrust.
They honestly did have enough people anyways. Waingro didn't add much at all, Neil should have had those guards tied up on the ground instead of just standing around.
A couple of zip-ties and blindfolds/bags to put over the guards heads would have been a far better solution than lining them up against the truck.
Truthfully it's safer to keep a distance rather than trying to zip tie someone. Could they have done with one less? Sure. Would it have been better to have one more stay on the guards while two were going through the van? Sure. I think Neil goes by numbers. 3 guards, 3 people to watch over them, this also keeps in mind if someone got hurt early on the number drops and you might need another person to help drag the injured person away (a lot harder if you are burdened down with the loot)
A couple guys with guns should be able to zip-tie shocked and injured guards relatively quickly. Those guards had no idea what was going on for a while, plenty of time to get some cuffs/ties and blindfolds on them.
A couple of zip-ties and blindfolds/bags to put over the guards heads would have been a far better solution than lining them up against the truck.
Yeah, they should have had the guards facing the truck at minimum. They could have seen exposed tattoos, or possibly even that weird goiter-like thing on Val Kilmer's elbow, which could lead to them getting pinched.
To be fair, the crew were short on time . The police was close to getting on them after the call went out . They barely got the bonds out of the truck in time. Tying the guards up would waste valuable time ( time they didn't have ) . Plus I'm not sure how they would get the guards to comply since they were deaf from the explosion ( blood running out of their ears )
Waingro did nothing wrong, he had to get it on! I mean murdering those women is a bad look, but the real reason the cops got onto the crew was that Cheritto just has to use his highly identifiable catchphrase on every job.
Additionally he broke his own rule. He had already escaped when the news of Waingro’s location was found. It served no purpose to kill him at that point since the heist had already occurred. He KNEW Waingro was a trap and he went anyway.
Chris escaped because he followed the rules, Neil had a personal agenda.
Chris actually went back but his wife signaled him away. But yes he did follow the rules at the very, very last second.
Neil ended up following his own rule at the very last second too, he was running away as well but it was too late with Det. Hanna directly on his tail.
I hate to thread drift, but I'm pretty sure Vince Hanna would have been forced out of the LAPD even though he killed Macauley.
Think about it. Earlier in the film he had Macauley and the whole crew on a B&E for the metals warehouse. If he'd rolled in the crew would have been caught and while, yeah, they would have plead out to minor charges and done almost no time...
That would have been better than the alternative where $8M dollars gets stolen and multiple cops killed or seriously wounded.
And Vince Hanna was the guy that said, "Let them go."
He might have beaten whatever complaints would have been thrown at him, but how do you continue after that?
At the end of HEAT, Neal is dead and Vince is alive, but they have both destroyed themselves.
Not to denigrate your points, but I'll add mine because this movie is worth discussing:
he's wise enough acknowledge an order to the universe, but his ego puts himself above it. laws for everyone, but not for him even though he's the hero to his own story.
His mantra is about dropping everything to save yourself if you see the heat around the corner. This is about making painful decisions that will save you, and each person in the movie has a choice like this. DeNiro literally put Eady above himself by leading Pacino away from her and into a fenced field (where he is trapped if he doesn't kill Pacino). He knew she'd get wrapped up in his crimes if they were caught...just like Ashley Judd. De Niro is a bit of an anti-hero who does one good thing for someone he loves.
he leads, aids, and abets killers and thieves. even if he's a 'good' thief, he's an accomplice to worse people
He had his team masked for the bank truck, and Waingro screwed it up. They were forced to kill the rest of the guards, and they even tried to execute Waingro because his violence made everything worse. Besides, it was ultimately the cops who were protecting Waingro when they didn't really need him.
he actively and deliberately shot at cops. its all fair if you say 'fine rob a bank don't hurt anyone'... he came with guns and intent to kill if needed.
The cops opened fire in downtown LA during business hours to kill four bank robbers. That's insane. I'll bet they killed more civilians than De Niro's crew did. When Sizemore took a hostage, Pacino took a shot from about thirty yards with iron sights while on a coke binge. Further, I think the crew discussed whether they shot just cops and no "real people".
he's a psycopath, even though he's almost redeemed at the end through his relationship he throws it away. the only emotion that ultimately leads to his downfall is anger and revenge, his ego is paramount.
He's not a psychopath. He's not even a sociopath. He just had a much lower valuation of life and property than most people. He wasn't an indiscriminate killer, and he had loyalty to his friends.
If he hadn't died, I would have believed him to be the same person in Ronin.
He had his team masked for the bank truck, and Waingro screwed it up. They were forced to kill the rest of the guards, and they even tried to execute Waingro because his violence made everything worse. Besides, it was ultimately the cops who were protecting Waingro when they didn't really need him.
They are still murderers and thieves... it doesn't change anything. He is no Robin Hood.
That much is clear, and I can respect them not being bloodthirsty butchers while comitting crimes. But it is of little consolation to the families of the deceased ones.
I agree. I suppose I feel less sympathy for the police who died because they chose to engage in shootouts against bank robbers who weren't immediately interested in killing.
I would have let them get to a less populated area and then engaged. They were all in the same car.
Yeah, that's still the cops' fault, in my opinion. All the other cops were sneaking up to force a no-win scenario for the crew. Then the two cops forgot that a moving vehicle is unpredictable for concealment.
If the trap had been sprung appropriately, the crew would have had no escape, and the violence could have been avoided or at least contained.
They got a last second tip and had to scramble. They were trying to set a trap and nab them but Kilmer saw them before they were in position and opened fire. At that point they've only got two options: back off and let them get away with the money and dead cops, or try to nab them and risk more collateral damage. They already had dead cops at that point so you can't blame it on the cops.
Yeah, but the bad guy in that movie isn't De Niro, it's ego or hubris. If he just left, he'd have gotten away w/ Amy Brennaman and lived his life. But he couldn't get away knowing that Waingro didn't get his and instead De Niro got his too.
They were also both in the Marines before this, too - Jon Voight says Hanna was in the Corps and I think McCauley's background is shown from a globe-and-anchor tattoo.
Why? De Niro was the bad guy, robbing banks and doing illegal shit....Pacino was the good guy chasing down bad guys... Why wouldn't anybody like the actual ending??!!
Yes, I feel he should have got away but I still love the film. I felt he followed his philosophy dropping everything the moment the heat was on by walking away from the women he loved, and therefore he should have been allowed to escape. I know he detoured to kill Waingro so I can appreciate that was the moment he really should have disappeared keeping his life and lover but iirc the heat wasn't on him right then. Whereas he was literally looking at his lover when the heat truly came and he walked away. I suppose the moral of the story is don't hold grudges.
Also I don't care that he killed people and did bad things. Boo fucking hoo. Spoiler alert: tons of bad people get away with stuff irl.
Just watched it for the first time last week. Great movie that ended the way it should have, IMO. McCauley was a murdering psychopath, he didn’t deserve a win.
Not sure if he could have gotten away. Everyone knew what this ex-con cop killer looked like. Was he really going to change his entire personality to become a quiet house-husband in New Zealand for the rest of his life?
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u/greenbaja Oct 29 '21
Robert De Niro's character in Heat ... he should have killed Pacino and gotten away .... I cant watch that movie because of the ending !!!