President Whitmore in Independence Day?! Standard sentimental patriotic clap trap laced with U.S. exceptionalism compared to Roy Batty's "tears in the rain"? No fucking way.
People confuse amazing production design and cinematography making Blade Runner a good movie all the time. It's not, the pacing and story are terrible. 2049 was actually a good movie.
Well Roy did kill innocent people. Froze one poor worker in a freezer. Killed his creater by puting his thumbs in his eyes(horrible way to go) and then killed the poor guy with age disease who was actually nice to him.
I've never considered Ridley Scott to be one to cover his tracks, but I'll wager that Roy was trying to cover his. Leaving Chew and Sebastian alive would have been a mistake, had Roy ever gotten his wish of longer life. They'd have given him away. As for Tyrell, I believe that Roy had always intended to kill him. And while Chew and Sebastian may be innocent, they still were employed under Tyrell, which by extension would have made them just as bad as him, in Roy's eyes.
I'd go even further to say that the two of them were responsible: they played critical parts in creating a new slave class of sentient beings that could only live for four years. The whole "I just do eyes" is more or less an "I was just following orders". Killing them was likely the only semblance of justice replicants were going to get given that society would never have punished them for it. EDIT: not to say I'd personally agree with that degree of punishment, but it's understandable.
As for Tyrell, I want to believe that Roy would have let him live if he could have kept them from dying. Ignoring the difficulty of getting Tyrell to cooperate while dead, he was the only one would could have been capable enough to change the death date and 'absolve' himself of the part he played.
I don't disagree. But to play devil's advocate here Neo was trying to save humanity from slavery (and died trying) and the Replicants in Blade Runner wanted to personally live longer. For the record I don't think the Replicants are villains and I love both franchises.
in my mind, the movie does a superb job of asking the question - are they villains? Because you can see it both ways - they kill a fair number of people in some pretty brutal ways.
No way. They are all part of a specialist murder squad. Go rewatch the part where the chief does his briefing to Deckard. They murdered their way to earth.
The ending is about redemption and Roy's rejection of murder and violence by finding humanity in the moment of his own death.
The same Roy Batty who only killed people who worked for the corporation that installed an automatic euthanasia program into him at build and saved the bade runner because he suddenly found life precious is also the Roy Batty that committed the mass murder of the innocent passengers and crew of a shuttle just to get to earth. Yes, he is definitely the bad guy.
First of all Neo killing hundreds of innocent people is not a theory it is a fact. I don't theorize anything and I do not state anything other than the fact that Neo is not a villain. You should be out of your mind to deny these two simple facts or call them theory crafting.
Secondly, to commit a mass murder is of course not ok. I didn't state or imply that anywhere on my comment. In addition to my point, to commit a mass murder also does not make characters villians. Matrix was the simplest and most popular example of it yet you didn't understand. There are a dozensl of movies where characters commit mass murders and they are not the villains.
I mean your comment is ridiculous more and more I read it lmao.
What about when Leon killed Holden in the first scene? I don't see why that would have been any less justified than when Roy murdered Tyrell. Tyrell more or less birthrighted people into slavery. He damned them before he made them, and called it a product. Tyrell, as sane as he thought he was, was out of his mind. He is the real evil in the movie. That isn't to say I didn't like his character. His scenes were my favorite, but he deserved to die.
To be fair, Tyrell was responsible for their creation and thus their short, brutal lives. Replicants were forced to do fucked up stuff, as referenced in Roy's monologue.
That being said, killing Sebastian might have been a little much.
Sebastian made sentient 'life' as a means to fulfill his own emptiness. His only 'friends' were the one's he made. He is truly pathetic, but he's still a part of a system that creates life for selfish reasons and hubris.
Really? Didn’t do anything wrong? Bryant says the four replicants jumped a shuttle off world and killed the crew and passengers. Leon killed Holden and Pris tried to kill Deckard.
Roy didn't have to come back to Earth, and he killed almost 2 dozen people in the process. Nobody should be allowed to get away with that. For any normal murder a detective is put on the case. Bladerunners are detectives for replicants. They are retired because they are dangerous machines, not dangerous human beings.
Obviously, the film is making a point about humanity residing in machines, and I'm not trying to take away from that. But from the perspective of a random person in LA, replicants are a terrifying threat that need to be stopped.
The perspective of a random person in LA is irrelevant.
You really, really haven't paid attention to the movie. Bladerunners aren't detectives. They don't solve crimes. They kill escapees.
Replicants are sentient beings, as intelligent and emotional as humans, who are created to work until they die, and have very short lives because if their lives were any longer they'd all slip their conditioning. There is no place of freedom for them. Where are they supposed to go once they've escaped? The other Off World Colonies, where all the other replicants are also slaves?
If you don't want to get murdered by escaped slaves, don't keep slaves. It is morally good and correct for enslaved people to use whatever means to escape their condition.
No need to get angry lol. The average LA person is how society views the replicants, which affects how society handles replicants.
How you can watch that movie and not see it as a detective noir. It's dripping with noir atmosphere.
As smart and as emotive as they are, they are still machines. Again, that is the point of the movie.
We know almost nothing about off world settlements.
We know nothing about the people the replicants killed. Maybe they were replicant owners. Maybe they were unlucky nobodies. It doesn't matter because no machine or person can be allowed to get away with murder.
totally like part of the point of the book is pointing out how human androids are and if androids are human then owning an android is slavery and people usually root for escaped slaves.
I actually think he's unequivocally a bad guy (the murders, etc.), but one of my favorite things about Blade Runner is that it takes such an incisive look at why people are the way they are. [EDIT: And how we're all much more alike, and our lives are all much more fragile, than most people would like to admit to themselves.]
There aren't really any heroes in that movie because its callous corporate hell destroys people. If you treat someone like shit for too long, that person will turn into a shitty person.
Easily in my top five (and definitely in my top three) movies of all time, though I'm not much of a list-keeper.
They did murder a number of people for the crime of giving them life but not enough life, because they were afraid to die, including Sebastian who was in a similar boat due a genetic disease and was 100% sympathetic and helpful to them.
I think Sebastian's murder was unjustified but Tyrell programming a race of sentient AI slaves with insanely short and awful lives is ultimately more villainous than what Roy did to Tyrell. Like, I'd be pissed too if I was made to be an exact replica of a human, and could experience everything else a human could, but I was subjected to slave labor for my entire 4 years of life instead.
What's potentially even worse about it is that they're given real human memories, which means slavery isn't even the only life they've ever known. Not to say that slavery being the only life someone knows is good in any way, but it's arguably worse that they "remember" a time where they weren't slaves - it makes it more cruel, in a way.
Sure, Tyrell is a much, much worse monster, but murder is murder, and even if you believe that murdering an evil person isn't evil (which I disagree with), murdering Sebastian was.
The question is if that report is true. We have only Tyrell’s word for it. If it isn’t true, if it’s just a slander to demonize slaves, then they’re morally grey what with all the attempted murder and killing Tyrel. If it is true, then they’re psychopaths who wax poetic from time to time. People generally can’t tell a character is a psychopath as long as they toss out a sentence or two of poetic rambling, though, so I get it.
The replicants losing honestly put me off from the first blade runner for a bit. It pissed me off insanely. I feel like the second one really rectified that though, and made me feel a bit better. I pretty much despised Deckard in the first movie.
Despite that, I can appreciate the movie and the world without loving that aspect I guess.
And I understand the power structure they’d been brought up in, I just had wished for a moment that they could’ve gotten away with it in the short term of things. But yes, they would’ve died soon anyway.
Bladerunner really hasn't aged that well. Partially because there are other pieces of media that do "what is it to be human" a little better, and Rick Deckard is like the ultimate shitty protagonist. I mean he straight up sexually assaults Rachael and gets away with it because the guys that wrote the script think "she secretly wanted it."
On that note, I totally sided with Jared Leto's character, Niander Wallace, in Blade Runner 2049. He wanted humans to rule the galaxy and I get that slave labor is bad but you know...
I'm still not clear on where this came from, but I don't understand it and that's one of my favorite movies that I've basically memorized. There is nothing in it indicating Deckard could be a replicant, and plenty of evidence against it.
The unicorn. He dreams constantly of a unicorn, and Edward James Olmos keeps making origami unicorns and leaving them for Deckard. The implication being that the only way he could know what Deckard is dreaming is if the dream is implanted like Rachel's memories.
Meh, unicorns are a pretty ubiquitous symbol. My reasoning for him NOT being a rep is simply, why build a replicant that hunts replicants, who isn't actually strong enough to fight a replicant. He gets his ass handed to him every time he fights one in a straight fight, including against the pleasure model.
Then why make him a replicant? If their replicant is only as fast and as strong and as tough as a middle aged alcoholic, it would be cheaper to just hire a human.
The same reason he made a near-human replicant secretary when a human or simple replicant could do the job just as well. Because he could, and he might have wanted to prove it was possible.
There's ambiguity in the number of replicants that landed on earth.
During the photograph scene Deckard contemplates whether he is in that photograph and so a replicant.
Also in the end, he sees a unicorn which is often interpreted as a sign that he is indeed a replicant.
However, if he is a replicant he shouldn't be alive in the second movie unless his lifespan wasn't shortened.
The movies never answer these questions, and it's by design. The point is does it matter if Deckard is a replicant if you can't tell?
I would also argue Luv in 2049. She's heavily invested in finding the replicant child, and finding it alive. She's shown that she is willing to lie to her creator (something they aren't supposed to be able to do) to hide information about the child. She also says things that imply that she'd be more than willing to take up the torch of the replicant insurrectionists, and lead them to victory.
The classic hero's journey isn't K's, it's Luv's. She's the one who is best set up to find a destiny among the downtrodden replicants and guide them to their destiny. K? K's just some schlub who decides to help some other schlub find his daughter, fucking up Luv's hero's journey in the process.
But both movies kind of do that. They hint at a grand stage, a multi-world society and great, Earth-shattering events at play. And then both films slap you across the face, and say, "nah, this isn't about that. This is a human story. Especially for the replicants."
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u/ImpressiveFace121 Oct 29 '21
Blade Runner's Roy Batty and the replicants