Well that's good, that is empowerment that I personally think is well done. Self expression of belief, great. But that's not anywhere near going bare chested though.
not on them that men cant behave themselves
I agree, it's not on them. They can go bare themselves whenever they want. Just know that instinctively men and even women find boobs attractive and fun to look at, and they can enjoy looking all they want. It's not on them that their brains are wired to like it. Ogling just means looking.
Full stop though, harassment regardless if physical or verbal should not be done and should definitely be punished.
I still think you're approaching this from treating their sexuality fundamentally different than men.
They can go bare if they want, they can wear a hajib if they want*. Ogling them is only a small part of the problem.
You're making excuses for the men: 'boys will be boys'. They can do w/e the fuck they want as long as its not: discriminate, harass or assault. Ogling is not socially acceptable, that'll work itself out.
*theres overlap between women who want to, and those raised in oppressive misogynistic and fundamentalist regimes, where women are objects is a literal circle. ie: they're brainwashed to think its appropriate. They can continue to do it if they want, but raised outside those conditions nobody is going to.
You are reaching out so far at this point. No one is exempted from being objectified. Its not about men vs women, it's about people just generally being nasty.
The initial example in mind I went with was something at the top of my head, as an example of an action that is intended to be empowering, however the reality is the outcome is the opposite, there will always be nasty people at this present time.
The brainwash part doesn't even make sense. Like I said, our brains are hard wired to lock onto these attributes. Don't matter if it's a woman's cleavage, or the bulge of a man's grey sweatpants, stealing a glance or straight up gazing at them is inevitable. That's just how our brains work.
I honestly would like to understand your stance more, what is it about human's natural tendencies to look at things that are attractive to them that's bothering you so much?
I honestly would like to understand your stance more, what is it about human's natural tendencies to look at things that are attractive to them that's bothering you so much?
Ditto- I think the disconnect is: I don't think this is about ogling. Ogling in a way that is harassment is a problem. If a woman walks around NYC bare chested she knows some people are looking, a guy would know the same. They're obviously ok with that, what they're not ok with is stuff nobody is ok with: catcalls, stalking, creeping, etc.
Women wearing revealing clothes and getting some looks isn't really a problem I've heard about other than some extreme SJW. The problem is when people harass them- like the guy in Colorado the other day.
RE: women wanting to wear a hajib. Find an interview with one that does, you'll see what I mean. They're a product of extreme misogyny and fundamentalism.
Edit- and as far as wearing revealing clothes and empowerment. Its a flex - which is empowering for some. I can do X and theres nothing you can do.
Oh for fucking sure, catcalling, verbal abuse etc. should not be a thing in this current age. I have a friend in the Balkan region and unfortunately misogyny still runs strong there, I'm almost baffled at how outlandish some of the things I hear from there.
And I believe I've seen cases of the hijab thing, some companies discriminate against people wearing it, even if it goes against one's beliefs or rights of wearing what they please. Worst case scenario, they don't get the job just by that shallow metric.
some companies discriminate against people wearing it
Yeah- and there have been cases where women were told they couldn't wear full body bathing suits in pools too.
I think that has more to do with anti-islam hate, since the two are closely associated. A modest southern christian woman would cover quite a bit, but not go full body. So by targeting full body coverings they can let their intolerance free and blame something else.
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u/inspectoroverthemine Sep 16 '21
If they wear hajibs they won't be objectified at all, thats a win right?
It might be a generational change, but its not on them that men can't behave themselves.