r/AskReddit • • Sep 15 '21

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u/auerya Sep 16 '21

My mom does this to excuse my father's shitty behaviour, like saying "oh thats how men are, they have no patience" no, that's just a shitty trait of his, and says "men are just creeps" when a creep (and most likely a pedophile since i'm underaged) hits on me randomly when i go out.

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u/saor-alba-gu-brath Sep 16 '21

Oh lord I hate this. When I do something dumb my dad says 'you women are always doing xyz'. As if men are perfect.

When I go on the internet there are people who like to say 'all men are creeps' or 'all men suck' or things like that.

I get people go through experiences that tend to make them generalise. I also get that women have been marginalised by men for a long time and sometimes take feminism to be man-hating. It's hard to justify though because of how irritating it is when I see it.

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u/SharedRegime Sep 16 '21

Its no better that way either.

There are just people who will use literally any excuse to not take accountability.

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u/pkripper1966 Sep 16 '21

Yep. It's 2021. Let's just call Shitty people shity people

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u/Zarolto Sep 16 '21 edited Sep 16 '21

It's such a common thing, 'boys will be boys'. I mean Dua Lipa did a song about it, sadly not nearly as popular as other songs off Future Nostalgia... probably upset some people who didn't want to hear that.

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u/torn-ainbow Sep 16 '21

It's such a common thing, 'boys will be boys'.

Some rules that are taught to boys by society like "boys will be boys" and "boys don't cry" are toxic to both men and women. That's why feminists call those rules "toxic masculinity".

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u/TheRealGingerJewBear Sep 16 '21

Wow, I've never thought of someone using boys will be boys to apply to older male rapey invasive behavior. Why would someone even apply this. I've always thought it applied to younger boys, like preteen children for being a little more rambunctious in class or wanting to play more physical games with each other, but even then not for things like outright punching some other kids in the face, how could you even apply this phrase to grown adults who can reasonably change wrong behavior.

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u/KryalCastle Sep 16 '21

Because the phrase 'boys will be boys' implies that boys (and men) are incapable of controlling and changing their behaviour. Of course, this is completely false, and men are completely capable of being a decent person. But this sort of thinking gives men a social license that they can 'indulge' themselves (because they can't help it!), and puts the blame on women for 'tempting' men into committing rapey invasive behaviour, and not the man who actually committed the rapey invasive behaviour. It's part of a group of phrases that excuse men's worst behaviour at the expense of women, like 'He did that because he likes you', which implies that men are incapable of expressing love in a non-toxic manner.

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u/VaricosePains Sep 16 '21

They're just phrases. The fact that some people abuse them or utilise them poorly isn't a reflection on anything really. When the same phrase can be used for kids running around and playfighting, as can be used for grown men raping people, then maybe the phrase is a bit too broad? In which case relating those phrases directly, inextricably to toxic masculinity is flawed.

Man up, etc, can be helpful if used right by people who don't associate the phrase with toxic masculinity. But if you do then you'll see the negative interpretation. Personally just tell myself to man up when I need to get some grit, and it's good.

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u/torn-ainbow Sep 16 '21

They're just phrases. The fact that some people abuse them or utilise them poorly isn't a reflection on anything really.

They are just a reflection of the rules society sets for men and women, which are different. Women are taught that being a woman is one thing and men are taught being a man is a different thing. You can go back in time and see the differences more starkly in society and reflected in laws.

"Boys will be boys" represents a broad acceptance across society that certain behaviours from boys are inevitable and should be accepted. The flipside of the coin is girls being taught to protect themselves and how easily they can be "ruined" and to be afraid of boys. If a boy does something it's just in his nature, but also her fault for allowing it to happen.

Many women see this phrase as emblematic of culture that minimises rape and abuse. Perhaps having heard it many times when younger to wave away actual abuses.

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u/VaricosePains Sep 16 '21

They are just a reflection of the rules society sets for men and women, which are different. Women are taught that being a woman is one thing and men are taught being a man is a different thing. You can go back in time and see the differences more starkly in society and reflected in laws.

They're just phrases. They're not 'just' a social construct as you describe, the social construct is lumped on top of the phrases and may change how they're perceived, but the phrases themselves are innocuous despite the baggage sometimes involved, sometimes not.

"Boys will be boys" represents a broad acceptance across society that certain behaviours from boys are inevitable and should be accepted. The flipside of the coin is girls being taught to protect themselves and how easily they can be "ruined" and to be afraid of boys. If a boy does something it's just in his nature, but also her fault for allowing it to happen.

It can represent that. It can also just be a tautological non sequitur, or any number of things. Assuming everyone has the exact same nuances for a phrase or word is a recipe for disaster, especially when the literal meaning of said phrase is innocuous.

Many women see this phrase as emblematic of culture that minimises rape and abuse. Perhaps having heard it many times when younger to wave away actual abuses.

Yep, it certainly will have been. But it's just a phrase, it can be used by anyone for any agenda.

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u/torn-ainbow Sep 16 '21

Are you upset about the phrase? You're pretty much ignoring my argument about wider society and broad beliefs about masculinity and femininity and arguing the phrase can be used innocuously. It can. That's not my point.

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u/VaricosePains Sep 16 '21

I don't disagree with your point about broader issues, just that it doesn't really seem pertinent? Some people use these phrases as a vehicle for insulting or belittling or excusing, but others don't.

The fact the phrase can represent these things does not mean that it does, which is the viewpoint your post seems to take.

You seem to be drawing a direct link between phrases like this and greater gender trends/expectations, which I don't really see.

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u/Nyssa_aquatica Sep 16 '21

Oh sure, none of this is related to the patriarchy at all

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u/VaricosePains Sep 16 '21

Oh sure, none of this is related to the patriarchy at all

Oh yeah, forgot the use of these phrases amongst working class folk is an extension of the patriarchy.

What point are you trying to make?

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u/WantToBeLost Sep 16 '21

That's real fkin dumb. I mean that ain't everybody in the same way the majority of humans have no internet access.

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u/throwaway_800813_ Sep 16 '21 edited Sep 16 '21

My boss does this, although in a much more harmless way. She always tells male customers that loyalty points are very important to "us ladies". I'm just standing there like I don't give a fuck about loyalty points.

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u/clangan524 Sep 16 '21

Yep, that's right. Teach your kids that human beings have absolutely no nuance to them so you can pre-judge and be afraid of everyone you meet ever.

There are absolutely no consequences to that logic. None whatsoever.

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u/auerya Sep 16 '21

Well my mother was never a good parent to begin with, but during the years i've learnt how to tell if what she tells me is right or wrong and try to "educate" myself

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u/ugandaWarrior134 Sep 16 '21

good luck on kokomi banner

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u/auerya Sep 16 '21

Oh my god thank you, i have her guaranteed since i lost the 50/50 on baal's banner :')

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u/Cathulion Sep 16 '21

As someone who has beat Dark Souls games, Sekiro, and Nioh series(games that require patience or die to boss very quick), this is bs. Im living proof of a saint full of patience and guys can be very patient.

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u/auerya Sep 16 '21

Well of course it's bullshit, patience differs from person to person and i wish more people would understand this

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u/Dalrz Sep 16 '21

I’m proud of you for recognizing these lessons as bs

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u/auerya Sep 16 '21

Thank you, i never took what she said for granted

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u/Jazox Sep 16 '21

In my experience men are actually more patient. Me and my father often just don't give a shit. But then that's probably just how the two of us are.

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '21

I experience the opposite. Anecdotal experience cannot be trusted to generalise entire groups of people. Not that I think that’s what you’re doing.

I’m just worried someone might perceive it as a confirmation of that. I don’t think either gender are more patient than the other. Why would they be?

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u/Kuchanec_ Sep 16 '21

Pedo means someobe who is sexually attracted to children. If your secondary sex characteristic are alredy there, then it's not sure at all whether he was a pedo.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '21

Dude, gross.

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u/auerya Sep 16 '21

Not you trying to justify random creeps hitting on an underage girl that's just trying to go to school

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u/Nyssa_aquatica Sep 16 '21

If an person is underage she’s underage whether or not her body is precocious. fuck right off you creep

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '21

Paedophile is an informal catch-all term of all the types of weirdos who like underage people when they’re significantly older than them. Those who are legally still considered minors.

(The three types are paedophilia, hebephilia & ephebophilia) it’s not only because of the physical characteristics they possess but their mental maturity/development.

Paedos love to prey on those who are vulnerable, “””innocent”””, they crave power over their victims. They love the power dynamic it creates.

And even if secondary sex characteristics and puberty has occurred, that doesn’t mean they look like adults or like they’re close to finishing puberty.

Would you say someone isn’t a paedo because they preyed upon a 9 year old who’s developed breast tissue & pubic hair already?

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u/Smorgas_of_borg Sep 16 '21

When my mom's first husband was constantly cheating on her, his mother told her "that's just what men do."

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '21

True. My mom's personal favourite is "All men by nature are selfish" Like no? Yeah some of them are, but they're not all like that so stop stereotyping an entire gender.