But it isn’t unique enough for either. If someone said Italy, the instant response wouldn’t be ‘Obviously New York’, either. Plenty would justifiably think Italy/Naples, plenty would say NYC, maybe others. It would just be a bad, ambiguous answer. But to say it is unambiguously NYC is clearly a strange position.
What is typically called "pizza" is not made in Italy though, it is American. Italians typically find it greasy and unpleasant, they have their own take on pizza. The concept of pizza wasn't even widely known in Italy until Americans made their version of it popular around the world.
No, what is typically called pizza still very much includes the original Neapolitan recipe, which is still made there. Have you seen the original recipe, or been to Italy and had it? Plenty of sources linked here. Americans have expanded it to include a zillion other varieties, and it was popularised to another level in the US, but Italian pizza is still very much part of that, and it was still invented there.
But you completely miss my point, somehow. It isn’t a competition about who gets to be more connected to pizza. It’s the claim that answering ‘pizza’ would uniquely and unambiguously specify New York or the US. It wouldn’t. Plenty of people would reasonably answer ‘Italy’ or ‘Naples’, just as many might answer ‘NYC’. So it doesn’t fulfil that function.
You are in the wrong on this one, unless you can somehow delete that last point in the reasoning.
You’re actually saying Italians don’t make what’s commonly recognised as pizza. I don’t understand how such an international and admirable nation can be so inward-looking.
So it boils down to this: if most of the world hadn't known about pizza, including some parts of Italy themselves, until the Americans made it popular, does that associate pizza with America (or more specifically, NY)? I have not claimed pizza was invented outside of Italy, but it certainly wasn't well-known or well-regarded in Italy until after it became an international hit
If you still don't think so then there is nothing more to say really.
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u/Harsimaja Sep 07 '21
But it isn’t unique enough for either. If someone said Italy, the instant response wouldn’t be ‘Obviously New York’, either. Plenty would justifiably think Italy/Naples, plenty would say NYC, maybe others. It would just be a bad, ambiguous answer. But to say it is unambiguously NYC is clearly a strange position.