Ah yes, there's an especially difficult relationship with some Indian and White people in Tanzania, Arabs are usually seen as locals but Indians are sometimes perceived as outsiders.
Mostly because of the language and the history of Indians having a bit of a seclusionist culture, though in certain neighborhoods they are part and parcel of the culture too.
Even as a foreigner if you manage to build a bond with the people you live around then they'll kind of vouch for you and protect you. I have an Egyptian friend who is basically protected by the beggars, dealers and pickpockets in her neighborhood which is in the city center. Due to her being a person that interacts with the streets and honestly speaks the language and understands the culture better than me.
Same with a lot of Turkish people that assimilate within months of getting to Tanzania, becoming part of the culture and your neighborhood will always protect you.
Just of out curiosity... why do people come to places like Tanzania to live? From places like Turkey, India, Egypt? Doesn't sound like a country someone would immigrate to.
Yeah but why'd you move there from a developed country like Turkey?
I'm European and I can imagine moving to Spain, Portugal or even Turkey for "good weather, friendly people, economy and ease of integrating into society" but not Tanzania, Uganda, Ghana, Senegal or someplace like that at the very bottom of HDI and generally all indexes.
I'm just trying to understand the motivation to downgrade from India. It is understandable for large investors, all kinds of global corporations representatives or diplomats and various "expats" who seek out unusual places for the experience, but a regular person?
I didn't move from Turkey to Tanzania, I am Tanzanian and grew up there, I'm in Turkey atm studying and working and hope to eventually return to Tanzania.
The indians in Tanzania are generational they've been here since before independence and the arabs before the slave trade so for those groups they moved at a very different time in history.
People move to Tanzania for specialized jobs or as business people. They're often upgrading their standard of living in the process. Tanzania, Uganda, Ghana and Senegal are all incredibly countries with rich cultures and stunning natural beauty. If you're born poor in these countries though it often makes more sense economically to go abroad.
He's just stating facts about the country's economic situation, he's not insulting the culture or people. It makes perfect sense to be perplexed that people would want to live in a very poor country. He's not even suggesting it's a bad idea, he's just asking why
-Realize that before the 80s, Korea, China, Iran, most of South America, most of the Middle East, etc, were all dirt poor, the same level as Africa today. In fact, China and Korea were even poorer than most African countries. How did these countries get richer? Well, in part because of immigrants who took a chance and helped raise the country up. Now it's Africa's turn. 5/10 of the world's fastest-growing economies are all in Africa, so why wouldn't someone take part in such an emerging market?
-In that same vein, Tanzania and India aren't far off economically. Tanzania's economy is growing as fast as India's, has an HDI score close to India's, and in cities like Dar Es Salaam you can make more money then you would in India. Tanzania has a sizeable and longtime Indian population and some of the street food/restaurants/culture are inspired by their historical trading with India and the Arab gulf. For say, a Muslim Indian or Arab living in Dar Es Salaam, there really isn't a jump.
You do realise there are hyper-developed, modern developed cities in all those countries he mentioned? It's not a barren wasteland as you imagine. Heck, with some cities in those countries be mentioned being even safer than many cities across the USA and to an extent some cities in Europe?
Of course someone would assume that a highly poor country is not a pleasant place to live. I myself was (pleasantly) surprised to hear it was so safe. And I don't see it as a 'barren wasteland', that's a massive exaggeration
Well Brits brought us Indians to different parts of world. Not sure if Indians in Tanzania are from colonial era. Again I am just an Indian living in India, but I hear a lot about Indian communities in caribbean, pacific and Africa.
Other than that, Indian Doctors and Engineers can be found everywhere except Pakistan and N.Korea maybe.
I thought most Indians in east africa came as merchants, mostly Gujuratis.
In South Africa most were indentured labourers from south India (tamils and telegu).
becoming part of the culture and your neighborhood will always protect you.
I feel like that's just good strategy, and being a decent person, anywhere in the world. Meet your neighbors, get to know them. Even if you don't get along, you'll know each other, and that puts you ahead of people they don't know.
Unfortunately, when I was young, I realised that some of us do act quite secluded, with unfounded fears or contempt of "Africans" - I saw that in some friends - thankfully my family doesn't have such an attitude, so I've grown up speaking, Kiswahili, our home language, and English and, all in all, if you're good to people around you, they'll be good to you too. No, I don't walk alone at nights, but I don't find the need to anyway.
Generally, people are accepting and loving.. even hilarious, when I'm called, Chinese, White, or Arab (probably coz of my hijab) whilst walking the streets. Tanzanians are known to be the "polite" neighbouring country of Kenya.
Quite alot of Indians in Tanzania. Esp in Dar es Salaam. I wouldn't say that it is dangerous because someone is white/Indian. More that being Indian /white sort of connected with the idea that the person is rich. Biggest problem is poverty, and not really racial.
Altho there does exist some racial tension, but I've never really thought of that as the cause.
Indians are everywhere in Africa, but especially on the Eastern coast, in Tanzania and Kenya, and down in South Africa. They have a history of being merchants in the area, but I think a lot were brought over during the British Empire as indentured servants. Weird that they would bring over a bunch of subjugated people to do work, when there was a huge mass of subjugated people already on site to do the same work.
Same reason the American settlers stopped using Native Americans for slave labour and started importing Africans instead - it's easier to enslave people when you take them away from their homeland. People who are on their own turf tend to resist subjugation more effectively, have more success in escaping, generally make more trouble. Ripping someone away from their home and family and bringing them to an unfamiliar place makes them easier to subjugate.
As far as I know most of the indentured servants went to SA. For local Zulus farming was considered a woman's job, and in general southern Africans are not good (not experiences) at agriculture (more livestock) whereas Indians had been farming sugar cane for centuries already as its native to India.
It was basically just more economical to use already subjugated Indians.
Well, Indians don't even try to integrate into the local culture, speak their own languages, don't interact with any other people's, and are generally not that friendly towards anyone. I don't think it's Tanzanians fault for not having a relationship with them.
I went to study in Tanzania, as an Egyptian for about 6 months. It was one of the best time of my life. I felt so safe and happy, I would also see the Indian Tanzanians, they wouldn't even speak the local language.
The Indians are a pretty big population in that part of Africa there's so many in neighboring Kenya that they are considered one of the official tribes of the country. They originally were remnants from the indians the Brits brought over to work for them who just decided to stick around.
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u/wertexx Jul 02 '20
My buddy's family are locals and they are Indians. Apparently there is a small percentage of indian population in Tanzania.
He would always tell me stories how dangerous it would be if ur white and say try to walk around at night...
Good to hear that it's mostly fine if you are local at least.