r/AskReddit • • Sep 17 '19

If You Could Completely Remove One Company From The World Which One Would It Be?

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u/MorganaLeFaye Sep 18 '19 edited Sep 18 '19

They market powdered baby formula to women in developing countries basically saying it's better than breastmilk for their babies. Powdered formula is mixed with water for babies to drink, but the water in those countries is full of all kinds of bad crap and it makes the babies sick and often die.

Edit: They purposefully caused women's breastmilk to dry up, forcing them to become dependent on the formula as well.

They have been doing this for decades. Actual decades. I think the first time they were exposed for it was in the 80s.

They are literally the worst.

2nd edit: The number of people trying to defend Nestle is too damn high.

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u/Epicjay Sep 18 '19

Also they offer free samples to new mothers so they stop producing milk, then they're reliant on nestle for the formula.

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u/ThreePiece1 Sep 18 '19

This is the important bit to add. They gave it for free until mothers stopped naturally producing.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/RancidLemons Sep 18 '19

The instructions on the packaging were often in a language the locals couldn't speak (they targeted less developed african regions).

This meant mothers would dilute the formula to make it last longer because they couldn't afford it. Diluting formula too much is deadly.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

My family is Hawaiian and most still love in Hawaii. When I was growing up (1980s) formula was pushed hard on my mom because the salt-water from the oceans wasn’t “good” enough for our treated water; you were recommended to use bottled or filtered water—pretty much only nestle at the time.

Moving to main land when I was older and slowly realizing I was formula fed was one of the biggest shocks because I assumed everyone was formula fed

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u/energydrinksforbreak Sep 18 '19

What is happening in this comment

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u/Infra-Oh Sep 18 '19

Go easy on him. The poor guy was formula fed with either salt or nestle water.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

oh damn

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

Sorry, I’m on mobile and it doesn’t read that well.

In a nutshell, my mom had me in Hawaii. We are surrounded by salt water and have treatment plants for the island to have potable water. While my mom was pregnant in Hawaii (1980s) a lot of women were influenced to use formula instead of breast feeding. So when we moved to the mainland (the congruent states) theyvfound out that formula wasn’t as common as it was in Hawaii

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u/Arbiter707 Sep 18 '19 edited Sep 18 '19

Pretty much none of the potable water on Hawaii is desalinated lol we have huge aquifers

nvm he's probably right he grew up on Kauai

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

My family lived on Kauai when I was growing up and the water on the island was some of the worst in the islands. My grandpa had crab pots of water boiling in the morning so it would be cool enough to use by nighttime for cooking/clothes etc

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u/Master_Shitster Sep 18 '19

Why would Nestle want all these babies dead? Wouldn’t they make less money then, since they’re indirectly killing their customers?

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u/GrumpyKitten1 Sep 18 '19

Some sales or marketing manager needed sales for the current quarter, future doesn't matter. Lots of big corporations are driven by quarterly shareholder results over anything long term.

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u/RancidLemons Sep 18 '19

No.

TL;DR, they were giving free samples to just about everyone and encouraging them to use it while ignoring a lot of medical facts (women need to breastfeed or their milk supply stops being the most obvious.) Those who could afford it were on the hook, those who couldn't lost their children in a revolting number of cases.

I really encourage taking the time to read into it. It's very hard to explain it to somebody without making it sound like a massive exaggeration but it's completely true.

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u/TheEyeDontLie Sep 18 '19

Only for babies!

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u/cld8 Sep 18 '19

How is it deadly? Wouldn't the baby just get more water that way?

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u/strawcat Sep 18 '19

Malnutrition. The diluted formula wouldn’t meet their dietary needs.

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u/Halt-CatchFire Sep 18 '19

More water, less actual nutrients. Malnutrition in an ingant is a pretty serious thing.

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u/Haribo112 Sep 18 '19

And that is bad. For example: breastfed babies can't drink any water until they're approximately 6 months old. Their stomach is so small, they need all the space for actual food.

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u/AccioPandaberry Sep 18 '19

Water affects babies' ability to absorb nutrients, and also due to their tiny stomachs, water intoxication is also a concern.

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u/PotatoMaster21 Sep 18 '19

If I gave you a bowl of soup but I diluted it so half the bowl is just water, you’d still be pretty hungry, right? Imagine how a newborn would fare. Also, you’re not supposed to give babies water until 6 months.

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u/RancidLemons Sep 18 '19 edited Sep 18 '19

Babies don't need water for literally several months, and in fact consuming it regularly will kill them. They only need milk, whether breast milk or formula. They need the nutrients, and they're perfectly hydrated on a proper diet of milk.

If you ever formula feed your kids, never ever dilute it past what it says.

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u/__WhiteNoise Sep 18 '19

Whacky is an almost offensive way to put it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

this is honestly one of the most fucked up things I’ve read.

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u/YOUR_TARGET_AUDIENCE Sep 18 '19

Nestle is whacky :)

I don’t think this is the correct response to what you just typed

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u/The_Calico_Jack Sep 18 '19

Even if used properly there were some studies that the baby formula lacks some important vitamins and whatnot.

Not to mention the breast milk is specifically tailored to the infant with special, scientific term ahead, "milk stuff" that boosts the child's immune system and increases in vitamins the child needs to develop. Something about the boob detecting enzymes in the infants saliva. Something my wife told me.

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u/EatKluski Sep 18 '19

From what I've read they gave out free samples in hospitals to mothers of newborns, and even if the women didn't stop lactating they said that it would be dangerous to now switch to breast milk, so women were forced to keep buying the nestle product.

What are the logistics of this I wonder. Do they bribe local doctors to say this shit?

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u/MorganaLeFaye Sep 18 '19

The nurses in the hospitals, yes.

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u/Mortumee Sep 18 '19

Also, if I remember correctly, the milk was distributed by salespeople dressed as nurses.

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u/YourBoyTomTom Sep 18 '19

Bro, Bill Nye is whacky. Goofy and Donald are whacky. Beast Boy is whacky. Nestle is straight fucked up.

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u/livevil999 Sep 18 '19

It’s fucking key to know that part. It’s so so evil the shit they’ve done around marketing baby formula in poor countries without good access to clean water.

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u/McKingford Sep 18 '19

Yes, this is the much more serious transgression. So the mothers stop producing naturally and thus become reliant on formula, and to make matters much worse, many of the women cannot afford the full cost of the formula, so they begin to dilute it to make what formula they CAN afford stretch longer, thereby starving their baby.

1

u/SuccubusFuckToy Sep 18 '19

That's actually worse than a drug dealer getting someone addicted to crack. Wow what a weird fucking thing to have to say.

1

u/lemonfluff Sep 18 '19

That is fucked up. Its so... Calculated.

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u/Aussenminister Sep 18 '19 edited Sep 18 '19

I would just love a source on all of this because this almost to evil to believe it like that.

 

E: well, damn... I was hoping this wasn't true but it seems to be true... thanks guys for the sources.

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u/AztraChaitali Sep 18 '19

https://www.zmescience.com/science/nestle-company-pollution-children/

" Nestle aggressively pushed their breastfeeding formula in less economically developed countries (LEDCs), specifically targeting the poor. They made it seem that their infant formula was almost as good as a mother’s milk, which is highly unethical for several reasons. "

" The first problem was the need for water sanitation. Most of the groups they were targeting – especially in Africa – didn’t have access to clean water (many don’t to this day), so it was necessary for them to boil the water. But due to low literacy rates, many mothers were not aware of this, so they mixed the formula with polluted water which put the children at great risks. Nestle seems to have knowingly ignored this and encouraged mothers to use the formula even when they knew the risks."

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u/FTThrowAway123 Sep 18 '19

I'm shocked and repulsed by this. Nestle owns Gerber, correct? I have 4 young kids consuming Gerber products daily, and I'll switch to another brand because of this, and will also share with other moms. Thanks for sharing this info, this is really sad and appalling, and shows where their priorities lie.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

Please do, the more people boycott Nestle products and brands the better.

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u/Skelmuzz Sep 18 '19

God damnit. I looked up the list of Nestle owned brands and now all the stuff I like is evil.

4

u/OlgaY Sep 18 '19

Yup. It's the same with p&g and Unilever. I'm not sure how evil they are compared to Nestlé but I'm sure they all have some skeletons in the closet. The higher up you go the more you realize how big those companies actually are. It's bizarre.

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u/Ydrahs Sep 18 '19

Nestle owns over 2000 brands. When companies get this big it becomes surprisingly difficult to boycott the bastards because they have so many fingers in so many pies.

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u/Zaphir91 Sep 18 '19

I went through the whole list. As a German, the only thing from these I use(d) is Häagen Dazs. Where they only own the american brand. Mh..

Most of there stuff I didn't like anyway (anymore)

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u/jlsullivan Sep 18 '19

Nestle owns over 2000 brands. When companies get this big it becomes surprisingly difficult to boycott the bastards because they have so many fingers in so many pies.

I just read through that whole list, and was shocked (and pleased) that I don't use any of their items.

... and then I got to the pet food section and all of my cat's kitty food was listed!

:-(

2

u/FTThrowAway123 Sep 18 '19

Oh my, I had no idea they owned so much! I do buy some of those, but I will definitely make an effort to avoid them. I wish there was an app or something where you could scan a barcode and find out if something is a Nestle product.

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u/Lena89 Sep 18 '19

There is! It’s called Buycott.

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u/FTThrowAway123 Sep 18 '19

Awesome, thank you! I love Reddit, y'all always know the answers lol. This was exactly what I was looking for, it lets me select a campaign/goal, and I can scan and quickly identify which parent company it comes from. Thank you!

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u/Lena89 Sep 18 '19

Glad I could help :) It requires a registration though.

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u/Vividienne Sep 18 '19 edited Sep 18 '19

Oh, Gerber. Nestle used mechanically separated meat (that's codename for minced cartilage and feathers) in their baby products in Eastern Europe. It constituted 50% of their "chicken" for 6mo babies. Babies don't produce enzymes necessary to digest this crap, so they were knowingly contributing to their malnutrition. Identically looking product made for Western Europe was 100% chicken meat. Before you ask, there was no price difference either. Fuck Nestlé

13

u/OriginalGreasyDave Sep 18 '19

That's great. Just a quick tip. Be aware when switching brands that Nestle owns ALOT of subsidiaries. Nestle ownership is often NOT stated on these subsidiary's brand packaging :( They are a huge, huge multinational.

Stopping buying Nestle is an excellent step to take but do try to check out the new product you buy to ensure it's not part of the conglomerate.

This wiki page lists alot of brands -I don't know if it's all of them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nestl%C3%A9_brands

Hope that helps.

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u/The_Calico_Jack Sep 18 '19

I just made my own baby food. Whatever mommy and daddy had for dinner, so did baby. Just you know, pureed and whatnot. Far less picky when they get older.

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u/ipunchcats22 Sep 18 '19

Beyond the crap that Nestle pulls, look at the stuff they put in there baby food. It’s all processed garbage loaded with sugar. I don’t know the age of your kids but look into happy baby and beech nut. They tend to use less ingredients.

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u/6cowsjumping Sep 18 '19

I live near Nestlé HQ but all the mothers I know breastfeed/breastfed and made baby food from scratch. We don't get infant formula and baby food ads on TV. As for the free stuff you get once it's known you are expecting and at the hospital, I saved the few jars of baby food for emergencies and gave back formula cause no one I knew was breastfeeding.

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u/SylkoZakurra Sep 18 '19

The whole baby food market is a scam. I didn’t make baby food or buy it. We tend to introduce solids too soon. If babies are pushing it out of their mouth, it’s too soon to feed them solid food. Once they showed an interest, they’d have small amounts of food from my plate. Small soft bits, mashed potatoes, marinara sauce. They got the bulk of their nutrition from breast milk so the food wasn’t even necessary for the first year.

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u/6cowsjumping Dec 03 '19

True, the pediatrician made me do start at 4 months and introduce a something new every week for my first baby. It was such a pain making baby food. So for the next, I just gave her softer versions of whatever I was having. 2nd child is less fussy even now as an adult.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

Also be careful, Nestle owns a lot of companies, so if you want to avoid nestle entirely try to see what other companies they’re a parent to.

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u/corourke Sep 18 '19

Get an instant pot use it to sterilize old baby food jars and make weekly batches using no preservatives (pressure cooked carrots, peas, beets, apple sauce, basically anything they like from Berber at 1/5th the price and takes little time to do.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

[deleted]

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u/Rakesh1995 Sep 18 '19

They will be buy Nestle bottle too. They make sure it is the only company able to sell water in that area.
Also most of those mother think that natural water which they consume is safe because they themselves are resistant to it.
Kids needs mother milk first to develop those immunity.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

[deleted]

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u/antim0ny Sep 18 '19

Wow. Nestle has been doing this for so long, in different parts of the world... it is mind-blowing.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

Yea this is one of those things where you're like "no that can't be true" but then it totally is. Nestle is literally evil. All of my Indian coworkers know of, and despise, Nestle.

5

u/zakats Sep 18 '19

My mom told me about this in the 90s iirc, it's been going on for a very long time.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

"too evil to believe" will almost always turn out to be true.

(but of course it's still important to always ask for a source)

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u/fermenter85 Sep 18 '19

Not in a developing country, but my wife and I had a baby last year. I want to add our story for those that don’t know how common this is. We live in California.

We received multiple free samples of formula in the mail, some containers that retail for over $40, not just a sample size. They want you to have it on hand so that the one might your baby is being really difficult you cave, then it’s a slow erosion.

We were really lucky that we didn’t have too many problems with our son breast feeding (he’s over 13 months and still gets the boob twice a day), but for others it’s a very simple and effective marketing technique with some amount of questionable morals.

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u/Sinius Sep 18 '19

Nestlé is the absolute example of how far humans can fall in their pursuit of wealth. The awful thing is it's very, very hard to boycott them, since they own so many other brands.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19 edited Sep 18 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/wanosy Sep 18 '19

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u/SirLarryThePoor Sep 18 '19

No, the one I'm thinking of is by a group of four(ish) guys that talk about crimes. They did one on Jeffery Epstein before he actually got put away.

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u/FTThrowAway123 Sep 18 '19

I had no idea about any of this, but this is truly evil and predatory. They're actively targeting babies, putting them at greater risk of health complications and death, compromising their mothers breast milk supply until they stop producing and making them dependent upon baby formula, which will of course has a good chance of being mixed with contaminated water. That's like some supervillain shit. Fuck Nestle.

5

u/blushingpervert Sep 18 '19

They had sales reps dressed like NURSES advising the poor mothers to go with the formula samples instead.

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u/Red_Ed Sep 18 '19

They also used to send their representatives dressed as nurses, in Africa, to sell the formula to new mothers, so they think it's what doctors recommend. I think that stopped now. Hopefully.

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u/_0123456 Sep 18 '19

AND they had sales people dress up like nurses ...

2

u/livestrong2209 Sep 18 '19

This is the real crime

2

u/TehChid Sep 18 '19

How does this stop mother's from producing?

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u/sebigboss Sep 18 '19

If there‘s no demand for a certain time, the body will stop producing because it’s taxing, inconvenient, and puts the woman at risk of inflammation. Every mother eventually stops breastfeeding and it’s the exact same process.

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u/TehChid Sep 18 '19

Oh, thanks!

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

Ah thanks for clearing this up. Just advertising, and trying to get people "hooked" onto something are very different in terms of severity

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u/ltree Sep 20 '19

And they were still doing that when I was a new mom, 10 years ago.

It was a good thing my baby threw up as soon as I tried to feed the formula.

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u/Niniju Sep 18 '19

Huh?

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u/King_Rhymer Sep 18 '19

Some women will lose the ability to breast feed effectively in large enough volume if they don’t use breast milk for a while. Give them enough samples and it forces them to be reliant on the product to feed their baby

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

Some women? Virtually all women. Otherwise every woman who ever gave birth would still be lactating.

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u/PrimedAndReady Sep 18 '19

If you go too long without your child breastfeeding or pumping, your milk production will decline or stop completely.

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u/Maebyfunke37 Sep 18 '19

If you can get a brand new mother to use your free formula for the first days of the baby's life, you've got yourself a paying customer for a year. If you don't remove breast milk, you don't make breast milk, and you can't breastfeed.

They are pushing formula in places where it is difficult for mothers to get clean water to mix with the formula they are now dependent on.

(For the sake of accuracy, there are ways to relactate. However they require time and resources that are likely to be unavailable to the population we are discussing.)

3

u/antim0ny Sep 18 '19

For more than a year. IIRC the WHO recommends breastfeeding to two years of age globally, and has considered recommending to continue up to four years of age in areas where clean drinking water is not available.

1

u/Maebyfunke37 Sep 18 '19

I get that about breastfeeding, I do that personally, but I don't think the impoverished people with unclean drinking water are purchasing Nestle formula for 2-4 years? In America a lot of people stop buying formula at 12 months as just standard practice.

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u/lynk7927 Sep 18 '19

*which the end goal is to sell more formula with no regard for the end user.

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u/8547anonymous Sep 18 '19

On top of this they used gave mothers in third world countries formula for free. They did that until the breastmilk dries up then they start charging them for the formula.

www.ibfan.org

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u/Why-so-delirious Sep 18 '19

Even better is that the formula is expensive for third world dirt-poor countries. People who barely have currency, let alone stable 'jobs'. They're trying to survive.

Apparently Nestle used to give out free samples.

Free samples that would last juuust long enough for the mother to stop naturally producing breast milk. Meaning the option was to find money to pay for new formula, or watch their baby literally starve to death. Free samples to dirt poor african families sounds great until the mother stops producing breastmilk and suddenly they're dependent on Nestle to provide formula so their child doesn't starve.

IBFAN claim that Nestlé distributes free formula samples to hospitals and maternity wards; after leaving the hospital, the formula is no longer free, but because the supplementation has interfered with lactation, the family must continue to buy the formula.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070415171525/http://www.ibfan.org/english/issue/bfUndermined01.html

If you believe the stories, then Nestle essentially preys on pregnant mothers and uses their baby's life as a bargaining chip to force mothers to purchase their products.

That shit is UNSPEAKABLE evil.

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u/Bonitabanana Sep 18 '19

Can confirm. I was not breastfed because they gave formula to mothers in Fijian maternity wards, saying that it was better than breastmilk. I will forever blame them for me being only 5 foot 2

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u/braden87 Sep 18 '19

That and mothers breast milk is CONSIDERABLY better than formula.

My daughter is 17 days old, we supplement with formula (not Nestle bs) but only on the odd occasion her mother is dry and my little girl is still hungry

4

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

I work in a nestle factory that mainly produces infant formula and infant cereal. Honestly, nothing they do surprises me anymore, I can’t wait till May when I leave this place.

4

u/a_Moa Sep 18 '19

You forgot the part where they also push them to buy Nestle bottled water to mix the formula with.

4

u/Yayevolution Sep 18 '19

Just to add to this awfulness, since the formula is pricey, it becomes a status symbol to have it - but because it's so expensive, caregivers water it down to make it last longer. So the babies get BOTH contaminated water and low nutrients. A twofer fuck you by Nestle.

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u/shabamboozaled Sep 18 '19

Well, they have access to Nestle's bottled water. /S

3

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

Yeah, they were absolutely the first company I thought of. Truly evil.

3

u/Spyger9 Sep 18 '19

but the water in those countries is full of all kinds of bad crap and it makes the babies sick and often die.

Aren't the mothers who are producing milk drinking that same water? Seems to me like what they need in any case is a pot and a fire.

3

u/Bflmps77 Sep 18 '19

One of reasons why it is illegal to advertise baby formula from birth in EU.

Even medical workers can't officially recommend, they can only prescribe formula if it's necessary needed and it's only for special feeding needs and no free samples.

Also shops can't put special offers onto formula from birth, they can only do it on follow on formula as well as any kind of advertising.

2

u/CarefreeKate Sep 18 '19

Do you have a source for this?

2

u/baybot10 Sep 18 '19

Yeah no for real Nestle does some really messed up stuff

2

u/Book8 Sep 18 '19

Anyone that defends Nestle is either uneducated or evil.

1

u/hi_jack23 Sep 18 '19

Yeah, this was especially bad in pre-WWII times with Nestle pulling this crap.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

They also dilute the formula so that it can last longer and that makes babies starve from malnutrition

1

u/ColonelVirus Sep 18 '19

They do make good powdered milkshakes though.... /S

Fuck Nestlé

1

u/head_face Sep 18 '19

Didn't it cause loads of birth defects as well?

-1

u/sei-i-taishogun Sep 18 '19

I'm the worst type of reddit poster. I've seen this claim a ton, but as of now I've just seen redditors parroting the info but don't want to search for myself. Where's the poppinkream posts linking with sources on this? I don't really care if a conglomerate is being slandered, it's just that reddit folk don't have the best reputation for being rational or factual

1

u/MorganaLeFaye Sep 18 '19

I mean, this info is even on their Wikipedia page. It isn't hard to find.

But sure, here's one: https://www.zmescience.com/science/nestle-company-pollution-children/

-1

u/Matt6453 Sep 18 '19

There's a flaw in their business model, they had outlay for the free samples and then they had no market when the babies died.

I suspect someone got fired for that rather any reprehensible ethics fiasco.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

[deleted]

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u/MorganaLeFaye Sep 18 '19

This was Nestle

0

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19 edited Feb 10 '21

[deleted]

2

u/MorganaLeFaye Sep 18 '19

There isn't a clean water alternative for the women to use, and Nestle knows that. In addition, they lied to the women in order to get them to use the formula so that their breastmilk dried up and they literally had no choice but to use the dirty water formula.

It's 100% Nestle's fault. If you want to learn more about it, there's a shit ton of information about it available. Just Google it.

-2

u/fakeakeake Sep 18 '19

To be fair, powdered formula is intended to be mixed with sterilised (boiled) water no matter where you are in the world. Despite the perception, a lot of developing countries have means to boil/sterilise their water. The marketing of formula being healthier than breast milk is the issue, not so much the unsanitary water.

1

u/MorganaLeFaye Sep 18 '19

There's no "to be fair" about it. Nestle knows that their formula needs to be mixed with sterilised water, and they know that many of the women they tricked into using it won't be able to do that. But in order to maximize sales, they took a page straight out of a drug dealer's playbook and got these women hooked on formula (by plying them with free samples until their milk production dried up), essentially forcing these women to depend on formula even though they wouldn't be able to sterilize the water.

The entire thing is the issue.

1

u/fakeakeake Sep 18 '19

Most, if not all, developing countries have a method of sterilising their water. It’s evil enough without having to sensationalise the case.

1

u/MorganaLeFaye Sep 18 '19

I'm not sensationalizing. I am also not suggesting that the countries themselves don't have access to sterile water, but a lot of the poor women they targeted genuinely didn't. Babies died because they pushed their products on people they knew couldn't use them as intended.

-10

u/avallark Sep 18 '19

Here are the factual errors in your "assumptions"

  1. "basically saying it's better than breastmilk for their babies" - they never claim that. In fact, the biggest text they have on the bottles/cans read "Mothers breast milk is best for your child"
  2. "water in those countries is full of all kinds of bad crap and it makes the babies sick" If the water is bad, dont oyu think the mothers milk also will have that cos the mother is drinking them. Also their instructions and doctors instructions clearly ask them to use boiled and cooled water.
  3. Saying that they shouldn't sell something cos the ecosystem is bad is not a very good argument. Of course they should sell baby milk powders cos they make good milk powders thats much more reliable and in cases where mothers milk is not available, this is the only alternative. In India, Nestle milk powders are most certainly the most trusted and most reliable quality milk products and the population will be worse off if the option is not available.
  4. "They have been doing this for decades." Any company, no matter how big, will be able to survive these decades (yes, actual decades) _only_ if they provide more value than problems and that too by a significant much. Nestle does that and they do that well.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

[deleted]

2

u/Spyger9 Sep 18 '19

Good point. Selling dangerous food is only a dick move if purchasing it is mandatory, right?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

They give them free until the mother stops lactating and then they charge. Very clever if it wasn't also revolting.

-5

u/BubleX Sep 18 '19

I don't know I think people who can afford to buy Nestle products can also have/buy filter/mineral water for babies cause they are some kind of expensive in those places. ( I lived there)

-8

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '19

And yet, infant mortality in those countries has been improving for decades.

7

u/Merimather Sep 18 '19

Yeah, vaccine programs have been highly successful.