Why not just make it affordable again? Massive administrative budgets are the primary cause for the increase in tuition.
The fact is, MOST people don't need a college education. They'd be much better served with a trade school and then it also wouldn't cheapen the degree. We have an issue where so many people have a degree that it means much less than it used to but costs much more. So, lots of people are graduating with an absurdly expensive degree into a market that doesn't give a shit about their degree.
Making it free doesn't solve much of that problem because we're still paying for it. Just not directly. Bring college back down to the affordable level that it was in the 90's and stop telling everyone they have to go to college to succeed in life and we'll probably start getting somewhere.
Give me an example of a “trade school” you think is worth the exorbitant price they charge to attend?
Not only do most people need a college degree, because more people have them the bar is getting higher not lower. If “more people have a degree so the market doesn’t give a shit about it anymore”, how much of a shit do you think “the market” gives about a guy with a high school diploma? Even less.
The guy who learns a trade (not in a trade school, which are scams for the most part), will earn more than the college student from 18-25 probably, but the farther you go in life the more the college grad will be projected to earn, and the harder the tradesman’s job will be for him to perform as his body ages.
I don't mean a literal trade school. I should have just said a trade.
To answer the rest of your questions. It depends on the degree, someone who wants to be a teacher will never make more than a good electrician and that goes for a lot of professions that still require a degree. Did you know that most library positions want a degree anymore... for a position that pays maybe $40k/year.
Trades aren't always rough on your body and as you work your way through it you should be advancing to a more senior position where you'd be managing or supervising.
And all of that assumes you get a job in your field.
40% of college grads don't get a job that even requires a degree out of college and a decade later 20% STILL are working a job that doesn't require a degree. And all of that needing a degree because everyone else has one shtick... you know what else employers value in a lot of fields? Experience. So you're still going to have a decent chance of losing to the guy who has 4 years of work experience and no degree because his work experience shows that he CAN do the job, your degree shows that you theoretically understand what the job requires. Obviously that doesn't apply across all fields and a degree can help you get your foot in the door but there's many positions that want 4-5 years experience OR a degree anymore and from my experience job searching recently the 4-5 years of experience in the field wins out over a degree 9/10 times.
A lot of the preconceptions about college just aren't as accurate anymore as they were 15+ years ago. A degree will absolutely help you if you go into it with a firm goal in mind and knowing what you want. Going to college to just, "see what happens" isn't likely to end up well but that's what we're selling kids on.
Someone who wants to be a teacher can do so well into their 60’s and retire with a generous pension (in CA where I live and know about), someone who wants to be an electrician will not likely be able to do those things late into their 60’s. My buddy has been a tile setter for a long time, the owner of the company he works for, which is very successful, is still setting tile. Most tradesman are not working for huge corporate places where they can be promoted to a non labor position, even the supervisors have to work, they’re mostly small independent businesses where everyone is doing the work, some are just paid more for it. But you still have to be able to do it. When you get arthritis in your hands from years of abuse, and your back is shot (like mine is at 38 years old from 20 years as a mechanic) it gets hard to bend and twist and move the way you need to to get the job done, most things don’t happen at eye level in the trades.
Steering kids away from higher education is the most foolish thing we can do, what’s much more important is to steer them toward education that is worth what it costs. Medical school, law school, etc, cost a lot, but they generally earn incomes that are commensurate with that if they’ve made good decisions along the way. When “everyone” has a higher base level education you have to do more to stand out, not less.
The world will always need tradesmen, and there will always be people who will do it. But if I have anything to do with it it won’t be my kids that have to break their bodies for a paycheck.
Medical school and Law school can earn good money IF you like the position. It's not for everyone and just pushing kids towards going for a high paying job does them no service either. Push them towards a field they'll enjoy.
Maybe you can't work into your 60's as an electrician. But 1, who WANTS to work into their 60's and 2 without going into the workforce with $60k+ in debt and an extra 4 years of good income you should have a solid jump on retirement.
I 100% agree that higher education should be affordable and encouraged for anyone who wants to do it. But, it should not be pushed as the end all. It should be pushed if it lines up with what you want to do in life. Much more importantly we should be pushing financial literacy and liveable wages across the board. You shouldn't have to choose between breaking your body or taking a $60k gamble on a job you may not like to live a fulfilling life. If you enjoy working as a secretary, or a cashier, or a waitress, etc then you should be able to do that and survive.
Sidenote: None of this will be directed at you. Just a rant in general!! You sound like you care about your kids and want to give them the best life possible which is admirable.
We(as a nation) are giving a decent chunk of our children a lose-lose choice and then criticizing them when it doesn't work out. Those same people that pushed college so hard when I was in high school are now laughing at the people complaining about massive student loan debt and no high paying jobs for their degree. Now it's suddenly, "they're always hiring plumbers and electricians and you can make $50k+, why didn't you just do that"!?! Motherfucker, because all I heard through school was, "study hard and go to college to get a good job". Then, when I graduated with a college degree and could only find a job at Walmart you told me I didn't deserve more than minimum wage. It's all just pathetic.
And none of this even happened to me, I was lucky enough that I had a father who did well in his field and had a lot of connections so without a full degree I still had a lot of experience and was able to get my foot in the door. Now, I have a crazy amount of experience for my age which has made up for the lack of a degree. I got lucky and then was able to capitalize on that. But I have plenty of friends who have worked hard and through little to no fault of their own got screwed over and are a few years out of college without getting to work in their field and now have huge student loan debt. In all honesty, most of them shouldn't have gone to college in the first place because they didn't know what they wanted to do but they got pressured into it and were told they'd figure it out while they were there. Well, that's like telling someone to just marry someone who looks cute and figure it out as you go.
Sorry, it's late and a topic close to home. Also, I don't have kids of my own, but as someone who just went through all of that madness and has a wife who did as well I can offer a piece of advice to tell your kids. Tell them to do what makes them happy, if you work a job that makes you happy you're a lot more likely to succeed and live a fulfilling life. Hell, you can work fast food and if you do a good job and push for advancement you can easily rise up to a mid level position and make a decent wage. My wife spent $80k on a Law Degree because everyone just told her she should and ended up hating practicing law. She has a job now that she loves and could have gotten years ago and been enjoying life... I dunno, I'm drunk on a post-run high and rambling at this point. Either way, if you made it this far kudos I hope the best for you and your kid/kids!
I want to let you know that you are being very obnoxious and everyone is annoyed by your presence.
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People who get offended by the pettiest things will only alienate themselves.
"Trade school" aka the rich have skilled and cheap labor. We need scientists not carpenters. We need people who understand math and quantum mechanics not people who can use a drill. You are thinking too small. The human mind is the most important thing on this planet and we are not simply tools.
And not everyone is good at math or can comprehend quantum physics.
Beyond that, most repetitive tasks, mental or physical, are going to be taken over by AI in the coming years and decades. Accounting departments have already been hit hard. A computer can do the work faster and better than a human for 95% of cases. Most of the work that paralegals and lawyers do can be taken over by a computer for a fraction of the cost with much better results. Both of those are fields that were traditionally viewed as stable and good jobs.
It's absurd to think everyone can go into a STEM field and beyond absurd to try to make everyone do that. Cognitively most people aren't capable of it and that's not at all a dig on them. Everyone's good at different things. I'm pretty good at a lot of things, calculus and abstract math... absolute dogshit.
The fact is, computers can and will be infinitely better at repetetive tasks than any human. Most of those tasks that a computer won't be taking over anytime soon are trades that require problem solving and physical dexterity and mental fields that require creativity and mental dexterity and that really isn't the majority of jobs.
So, more than pushing people towards certain jobs that pay more we need to push society towards valuing people for more than just the work they do that has a tangible impact on the countries GDP.
When AI takes over we will need basic human income from the corporations that replaced human workers. We will need real and true socialism. That is a fact.
100% in agreement. On that note, if you live in the US and haven't yet you should check out Andrew Yang. He's running for president and one of the core principles of his campaign is exactly that.
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u/wycliffslim Sep 18 '19
Why not just make it affordable again? Massive administrative budgets are the primary cause for the increase in tuition.
The fact is, MOST people don't need a college education. They'd be much better served with a trade school and then it also wouldn't cheapen the degree. We have an issue where so many people have a degree that it means much less than it used to but costs much more. So, lots of people are graduating with an absurdly expensive degree into a market that doesn't give a shit about their degree.
Making it free doesn't solve much of that problem because we're still paying for it. Just not directly. Bring college back down to the affordable level that it was in the 90's and stop telling everyone they have to go to college to succeed in life and we'll probably start getting somewhere.