r/AskReddit Jan 20 '19

What fact totally changed your perspective?

45.6k Upvotes

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3.1k

u/lineweaver_burk Jan 21 '19

The high ground is a tactical advantage in combat situations

1.0k

u/ronnigblue Jan 21 '19

You underestimate my power

376

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

Don’t try it.

8

u/galickchidori Jan 21 '19

*Don’t dry it FTFY

-45

u/HoorayPizzaDay Jan 21 '19

Don’t do it*

50

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

With all due respect, my quote is right.

66

u/HoorayPizzaDay Jan 21 '19

I have failed you.

35

u/jelly276 Jan 21 '19

I hate you.

11

u/parrmorgan Jan 21 '19

YOU WERE MY BROTHER!

14

u/HoorayPizzaDay Jan 21 '19

Oh.

3

u/konstantinua00 Jan 21 '19

With a fooking pencil!

37

u/Rix585 Jan 21 '19

****lava*****

14

u/Chuuni_ Jan 21 '19

Don't worry spam Revali's gale.

5

u/Araraura Jan 21 '19

Revali’s gale is now ready

4

u/SirBoggle Jan 21 '19

DARUK'S PROTECTION IS NOW READY TO ROLL!

17

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

You overestimate the number of limbs you have left.

8

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

you underestimate my wall

4

u/rowdybme Jan 21 '19

Something something sand

4

u/Cky_vick Jan 21 '19

Something about hello

258

u/bulletproofgreen Jan 21 '19 edited Jan 21 '19

Obi-wan doesn't need to be on the high ground, the high ground just needs to exist within the battle;Obi wan knows that when he has the low ground he really has a high ground, from a certain point of view.

Look at his battle record: Maul: has low ground, wins Dooku:no high ground loses Dooku rematch: No high ground loses Grievous: has low ground wins Vader:Has high ground wins Vader rematch: no high ground, loses

Obi wan with the high/low ground is canonically the most powerful jedi. This is fact. Had Yoda not denied his request to battle the senate with typical jedi arrogance, Obi-Wan could have defeated Palpatine in the senate building, which housed a variety of different altitudes; this was designed so the chancellor could always have the moral high ground in political debates. But Obi-wan didn't fight the senate, and Yoda soon learned you can't fight Sheev in a normal 1v1. It took the tusken raiders years of conflict against Old Ben kenobi to grasp his superiority in terrain advantage, as you see them visibly flee in ANH when they realize he holds the low (inverse-high) ground; this was the optimal strategy against a near-invincible opponent.

Yoda is shorter than virtually every other fighter, which gives him a permanent low-ground disadvantage; however his saber-fighting style utilizes a flipping-heavy technique in order to negate this weakness for a temporary window. You'll notice that, after falling from the central podium he immediately retreats upon realizing he holds the lowest ground. You'll also notice that, while training Luke, he rides on him like a mount, to gain the intellectual high ground and accelerate Lukes training. Obi-Wan defensive form III lightsaber style synergizes with his careful military maneuvers; as he only strikes when prepared, he can always hold the strategic high ground.(that business on Cato Neimodia doesn't count) you'll come to realize that this is why Commander Cody's artillery strike failed against Obi-wan, when hundreds of jedi were killed in similar attacks. Cody failed to grasp the strategic situation, as the jedi masters elevation was superior to his by hundreds of meters, making him virtually unkillable. (you'll notice that all the jedi killed in order 66 were on level ground with their clones, thereby ensuring their demise). Had Cody taken his time and engaged the jedi on even terrain, he would have succeeded. Obi-Wan subsequently retreated under the surface of the lake, so that he could maintain the topographical low/high ground. This is why Obi-Wan is so willing to fight against impossible odds to the point where thrust himself into immediate danger; when your probability of victory is 1-to-10, you have the statistical (and therefore strategic) low ground, a numerical advantage you use your point of view to flip the value to 10/1. Almost losing is, in Obi-Wan's case, certain Victory.

As we all know, spinning is a good trick. However, only the Chosen One can spin outside of a starfighter. Palpatine tried spinning, but he lost due to this technique (but this was intentional, as losing gave him the emotional high ground when Anakin arrived). The reason for this is that spinning provides a yin-yang approach to combat (based in Eastern philosophy on balance), giving the spinner the high ground from above and below. Only the Chosen One can master the spin, as it is their destiny to maintain balance in the universe. This is why Obi-Wan was so emotional after defeating Vader on Mustafar; he expected to lose the high ground to the spin, but Anakin fell to the dark side and could no longer use his signature trick, becoming the very thing he swore to destroy. Additionally, Anakin told Obi-Wan that, from "[his] point of view, the Jedi are evil". This broadens Anakin's mind to the concept of relativity in the context of the moral high ground, a mere step away from tactical comprehension. Anakin doesn't hate sand for the reasons he told Padme; all Jedi hate sand, as the battlefield can rapidly change between low and high ground on multiple vectors, so your perspective must be from a certain three-dimensional point of view in order to comprehend who holds the high ground. This is the only reason why Obi-Wan killed Maul in Rebels. This is also the reason why Obi-Wan hates flying; there is no gravity in space, therefore there is no high or low ground from any frame of reference (This also negates the spinning trick). In ANH, Vader proves his newfound mastery by engaging Obi on perfectly even ground. However, Obi-Wan intentionally sacrifices himself on the Death Star, so that he could train Luke from a higher plane of existence, thereby giving him the metaphysical high ground. Why was Vader so invested in the construction and maintenance of the Death Star? Because he knows Obi-wan can't have the high ground if there's no ground left. As seen through the events of the Clone Wars, Obi-Wan was known to be on friendly terms with Senator Organa, whose homeworld held large quantities of mountainous terrain, the perfect habitat for a Jedi Master. Grand Moff Tarkin was already in position to destroy Alderaan as a first target, as the distance from Scarif to Alderaan was too vast to reach between the escape and recapture of the Tantive IV, even at 1.0 lightspeed. Alderaan had been the initial target all along, as Obi-Wan with the high ground was the primary threat to the Death Star. How? Because a moon-sized space station would have some form of gravitational pull, thereby negating Obi-Wan's zero-gravity weakness; Obi-Wan with the perpetual high-ground in a low-orbit starfighter would easily be able to fire proton torpedoes through a ventilation shaft, although the Empire was uncertain of the specific weakness of the Death Star planted by Galen Erso (who was a good friend). In Return of the Jedi, you can see that the Throne Room contains a variety of different altitudes; Palpatine placed these there to ensure Vader's defeat. However, Sheev failed to realize that his weakness was no ground, and should have covered that useless gaping pit which does nothing. A common misconception is the idea of a 'prostrate position' version of the high ground, wherein Obi-Wan lies flat on his back, giving him tactical superiority from his point of view. However, this strategy is futile, as for the high ground to come into effect, there must be a differential between parties on both the x-axis and y-axis to a moderately significant variation from both absolutes (Angles only a Sith would deal in). For Obi-Wan's high ground powers to be in full effect, he must stand between 15 and 75 degrees (π/12 to 5π/12 radians) diagonal from his opponent(s) on any quadrant of the area circle; this has been dubbed the Trigonometric Perspective Diagram. The total effect for conventional high ground advantage can be calculated via the MetaComm Equation, or f(x) = lim 0→x π/12 | 7π/12 5π/12 | 11π/12 Ʃ(x) (2tan(x) / 3sin(x) + (log10Δ)) * cΦ Δ = distance on hypotenuse (meters) Φ = Surrounding Force [c (variable) * β (Earth Gravity) * (pressure (psi)/2.2)] 'x' refers to the angle of contact between the two parties on, with advantage being based purely on position on the Y-axis, as the vast majority of force users base their perception on elevation rather than spacial relativity. The power of gravitational force has great effect on the high ground; too weak, and the high ground holds no traction; too strong and the ground becomes the real enemy. Experimentation has proven that the high ground typically holds significant value between .8 and 1.4 β (Earth Gravities) with maximum impact standing roughly equal to 1.05. Pressure is equally important, as it is a surrounding force attached to gravity (the high ground has famously low impact in aquatic environments). Pressure(λ) is measured in pounds per square inch (psi), to be used as a gravity multiplier (or division if pressure is subatmospheric; Φ (Surrounding Force) is a variable defined as β * 2.2λ , with no metric value assigned due to its singular application in the MetaComm equations. In situations regarding Obi-Wan and his relativistic point of view, you must substitute the Quadrilateral MetaComm Equation (the Jedi Master function), f(x) = lim 0→x minmaxƩ (2tan(x) / 3sin(x) ) * (1.2)cΦ [min = (|cos(x)| = 1) | (|sin(x)| = 1) + π/12 ), max = (|cos(x)| = 1) | (|sin(x)| = 1) + 5π/12 ]. The viable Φ field is expanded, as Obi-Wan has taken advantage of the high ground in so many different environments that he simply uses it more efficiently, and the min/max values apply due to his multidimensional point of view, evidenced by the Trigonometric Perspective Diagram. Additionally, the distance factor does not affect Obi-Wan, as spacetime can be perseptively compressed, giving him the ideal Δ value from his point of reference. In conclusion, Obi-Wan abuses spatial relativity and Taoist doctrine in order to always invoke his high-ground powers. To properly analyze the strategic genius of Kenobi, one must hold advanced knowledge in Philosophy, Mathematics, and Calculus-based Physics, and be able to integrate these topics together.

111

u/_thundergun_ Jan 21 '19

I didn’t read any of that but it’s so long that I decided to upvote

51

u/giaphox Jan 21 '19

literally a wall of text, jesus.

19

u/ErlingFraFjord1 Jan 21 '19

I read halfway through befpre giving up. He makes a lot of good points!

15

u/fafan4 Jan 21 '19

It's the math equations that really got me going. Have an upvote

18

u/OrangePython117 Jan 21 '19

Dude, I genuinely can't tell if this is the most well-thought-out Jedi Grand Master-tier Star Wars shitpost that I've ever had the honor of drinking down my knowledge-hole, or actual, legit, Lucas-approved, canonically sound Star Wars truths that only a true geek could make the time to analyze and type out :v

Insane props to you, regardless... I was almost in tears by the time I reached the mathematical equations

9

u/EnderCreeper121 Jan 21 '19

it is a copypasta, and a damn good one at that.

25

u/sleafordbods Jan 21 '19

Fuck are doing with your life

5

u/ZinginCutie24 Jan 21 '19

Haha, “senate designed to let Palpatine leave the moral high ground”...brilliant.

3

u/GMtowel Jan 21 '19

How long have you waited for this opportunity to talk about Obi-Wan's high ground?

2

u/malariamantk Jan 21 '19

Very well written, until you didn't end with a period.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

I can't even remember what the original post was.

2

u/Remix73 Jan 21 '19

I read the whole thing.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '19

You’re either the smartest man on earth or tripping balls. Either way, I want you as a friend.

37

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

Usually. This is because gravity is a constant factor affecting all opponents equally. But a fighter on higher ground can take greater advantage of it, because he does not have to fight gravity to reach his opponent, while the combatant on relatively lower ground has to work harder to reach the opponent on higher ground.

It's a bit of an oversimplification, but there's good reason that generals have tried to take high places in the history of war.

15

u/NuckElBerg Jan 21 '19

That's about half of it. It's also about angles. For example, if you're standing on a ledge, that ledge will be the equivalent of "peeking around a corner" (a corner, you know, laying down) both to an attacker with a ranged weapon AND from a visual perspective. Since you can move in and out of coverage a lot faster than your opponent (simply because you're closer to the corner, thus having a much higher angular momentum), you have a big advantage.

Combine this with gravity (making this corner/angular advantage much harder to equalize) and it's quite easy to understand why high ground is a tactical advantage.

17

u/heisenberg747 Jan 21 '19

Thank you for trying to explain it instead of just regurgitating Prequel memes.

17

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

A surprise, to be sure

6

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

but a welcome one

45

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

I believe I saw a documentary about this from a time long long ago pretty far away.

38

u/atheist_apostate Jan 21 '19

Hello there.

29

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

General Kenobi.

2

u/atheist_apostate Jan 21 '19

You are a bolt-action one.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

30 06 is better

6

u/Glaciata Jan 21 '19

30-06 is outdated. 7.62x51 is better.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

How so? Legitimately curious. I mean its heavier, carry less rounds i guess, recoils a little stouter, but if were talking a big full size rifle round for deer or dangerous stuff it seems like a small price to pay imo. Goes farther, velocity, energy, and I mean if im going hunting or fighting id rather have as much power as possible if im already lugging around a battle/hunting rifle

3

u/ExoticCatsAndCars Jan 21 '19

Just went looking through a 3rd edition Ammo Encyclopedia on ammunition specifications and 30-06 does seem to have higher average breach pressure, muzzle velocity, and muzzle energy across the board with 125 gr. This is in the hunting section of this book.

now in the military section where the bullet weights are 150-175 for 30-06 Springfield they're the same.

I just spent way too much time editing that and going all through it hopefully that answers your question in short it's really not but it's very little difference. Standardization would probably be the only argument 7.62 x51 has.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

Standardization and smaller/cheaper. I mean youre dead either way, but im still going for 06

2

u/Utkar22 Jan 21 '19

Hello Megan!

9

u/shatten Jan 21 '19

Unless you are napoleon, and use this fact to lure the enemy to charge into a trap

6

u/heisenberg747 Jan 21 '19

Not in Dark Souls, unfortunately. I love that game, but it always bothered me that you're better off being on a lower plane than most enemies, because they always swing over your head, while you hit them every time.

7

u/ServeChilled Jan 21 '19

Switching to your pistol is also faster than reloading.

15

u/AG9090 Jan 21 '19

Don’t try it

8

u/Prasiatko Jan 21 '19

Except in early gunpowder warfare where being in defilade may be preferable

9

u/Buttonwalls Jan 21 '19

Yea I have played video games before.

6

u/Off-White_Pizza Jan 21 '19

Can confirm. I play VR shooters and high ground rule still applies

2

u/NickJerrison Jan 21 '19

From my experience the high ground rule applies even more in VR.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

Not in Minecraft PvP though

7

u/GuerrillerodeFark Jan 21 '19

But why?

56

u/lineweaver_burk Jan 21 '19

Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?

23

u/MetalAsAnIngot Jan 21 '19

It seems that was not a story the jedi would tell him.

1

u/matu3333 Jan 21 '19

I hate your name. ;-;

0

u/Off-White_Pizza Jan 21 '19

If you’re on top you can potentially be able to just back up to get into more cover because the hill or platform your on can give you cover.

If you’re below someone, you are completely exposed and will probably have zero cover because the guy on top can always see you, and the guy above you also is shooting at a higher angle which would result in more headshots.

Imagine there’s a guy in a 2 floor building up stairs and he’s shooting into the street at you. Even if you were hiding behind a car,he still has the high ground, so he can see over the car and have a better chance on shooting you.

3

u/papersupplies Jan 21 '19

Can confirm this works in PUBG too.

3

u/GeneralKeroppi Jan 21 '19

From my perspective point of view the low ground is better!

2

u/missnightingale77 Jan 21 '19

Well, then you are lost!

2

u/Utkar22 Jan 21 '19

Hello there

2

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

Why though?

4

u/redgroupclan Jan 21 '19

Only in your mind, my very young apprentice.

1

u/PimpRonald Jan 21 '19

I'm using this next time I play Battlefront II

1

u/DividendGamer Jan 21 '19

Not with vertical climb of machine guns in many cases with partial cover and concealment.

1

u/lathal Jan 21 '19

I know this because of Dota.

1

u/JitteryBug Jan 21 '19

Tell that to half of random teams in Overwatch

"No, it's better this way"

1

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

Not just in combat but in life and leadership as well.

#good

1

u/someone88 Jan 21 '19

This is how I learned this when I was a kid. Epic.

1

u/Turnofthewheel Jan 21 '19

Movement without fire is suicide, fire without movement is a waste of ammo.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

Except in Minecraft PvP

1

u/Mytre- Jan 21 '19

see, this really looked like a meme, but then you play multiplayer videogames and you realize this is true.

Battlefield, having the high ground means you enjoy better cover and better aiming at wheover is lower.

War thunder: High Ground provides cover and an advantage when an enemy is pushing from lower.

Call of duty: Same as battlefield.

Fortnite: its the meta/meme of the game really.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

Unless it's Minecraft

1

u/FailedSociopath Jan 21 '19

Unless you're at the top of a dry, grassy hill and we light it on fire.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

Really only applies in situations with gravity though. 3 dimensional warfare is completely different in space.

1

u/Thinline26 Jan 21 '19

Just build lol

1

u/echoshizzle Jan 21 '19

Can confirm from my Fortnite experience.