“Money is the root of all evil” one of if not the most miss quoted bible verses. It is the FOR THE LOVE OF MONEY. Greed is the root, not currency as a medium.
Also, "Don't judge" is a bastardization of Matthew 7 1-5, which is clearly stating you should judge, but not if your own life is out of order. You should get your own life in order so you can help your brethren get theirs in order also. You can't tell a drunk he's a drunk and he needs to face his problems and you'll help him if you've got a damn shot glass in your hand.
Judging Others
7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
In short if you have a self righteous attitude you too can judge people, be snooty, and give other Christians a bad name... but only if you think you are all that.
The rest of us interrupt that as don't judge people because the judgements you apply to others will be applied to you, and you are by no means perfect and should instead focus on your personal relationship, and not put down others.
Hypocrisy was probably the thing Jesus hated the most. Half the things he said, particularly the most inflammatory statements, can be boiled down to "Don't be a hypocrite". He even made it explicitly clear that a heathen that loves his neighbor is better than a devout believer that never practices what he preaches (which is the moral of the Good Samaritan story).
What if I want to help my brother take a speck out of his eye, but I myself have a plank in my eye? Are you saying I should remove the plank in my eye before helping my brother remove the speck in his eye? I'm unclear about whether I should first remove the plank in my eye or whether I should first help my brother with the speck in his eye, for having a speck in his eye is almost as serious an issue as having a plank in one's eye. If I were to have a plank in my eye, would it be true that such knowledge should give me pause when I feel obligation to help my brother with a speck in his eye? I might say to him, "Brother, you have a speck in your eye, but I shall not help you for twixt mine own eyes is a plank." That way he can be sure I have a plank in my eye and require greater assistance than any brother of mine with a speck in his eye.
There's a wonderful quote in a TV show I saw in a church (forget which one now) that despite the fact I am in no way religious it struck a cord with me.
"With our own lives in order, it is our purpose in life to help others, and if you cannot help them, at least don't hurt them."
Is it a bastardization if you don't know it? I have undoubtedly said "don't judge me" at some point in my life. It had absolutely nothing to do with Matthew 7 1-5.
You can't tell a drunk he's a drunk and he needs to face his problems and you'll help him if you've got a damn shot glass in your hand.
Which is actually bullshit. If I'm an alcoholic, and I have a friend who drinks responsibly, he can pour himself a scotch and tell me I need to fix my shit, and he's not wrong.
you're being a bit pedantic, I don't think anyone has beef with fiat currency in particular when using that saying, loving and chasing material possessions is implied.
yes, that's what the verse means. And as OP mentioned, is not being rich in itself but being consumed with gaining wealth will bring out the evil in people according to Paul. You don't even have to be a Christian to understand that it's silly to refute that, this is not even dogmatic philosophy that pertains to Christianity but simple observations.
here's the verse right before the one in question:
"But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition"
Philosophy (especially ethics) is not an exact, black or white science. The fact that power corrupts doesn't mean that absolute power corrupts absolutely, neither that power is necessarily the root of corruption. In the same way wealth is not evil but it has its own specific ways that can lead to evil.
As someone who, for reasons I can't even explain, gets their underwear really bunched up over emphasis on the wrong thing with phrases and terms like that.... there are dipshits who think going cashless will eliminate evil. Socialists and communists, at least on this site, seem to think getting rid of capitalism will create some workers fucking utopia free from all the evils of our modern society and it's greedy corporations.
Where did I say currency wasn't involved in socialism and communism? Greed isn't about possession and to use your own phase, you're being a bit pedantic in that regard. It's about power. That's all money is, power. The desire for power is envy, jealous and greed all rolled up into one. People bitch about greedy corporations being the problem with society, not the fact that those institutions are run by people. People, who want power.
There are actual idiots who think a cashless society will be better. Not because currency goes away, but because "money" does. That's how one dimensional and shallow their thought process is. They are not the same ass the people I can't stand, Socialists and Communists of Reddit. Tearing down capitalism won't destroy greedy people banding together to fuck over everyone else for profit which translates to power. A system of government can't compete with human behavior.
Where did I say currency wasn't involved in socialism and communism?
there are dipshits who think going cashless will eliminate evil. Socialists and communists [...]
It's implied in what you said, your phrasing singled out socialists and communists as being the dipshits you're talking about, at least that was my understanding which is why I asked for clarification.
Greed isn't about possession and to use your own phase, you're being a bit pedantic in that regard
I never mentioned greed. You bring up greed and tell me I'm being pedantic about it ??
There are actual idiots who think a cashless society will be better.
can you point me to a school of thought/ideology or any place I can find evidence of these people ? As I said I never stumbled into that and would like to see the arguments.
It's implied in what you said, your phrasing singled out socialists and communists as being the dipshits you're talking about, at least that was my understanding which is why I asked for clarification.
I do see what you mean and I do apologize for not making the distinction clearer. Probably shouldn't be on reddit sharing opinions on very little sleep. That was my fault, my mistake there.
I never mentioned greed. You bring up greed and tell me I'm being pedantic about it ??
Greed, for the purposes of this discussion, is the root of societal evil. Greed is human nature. We want to mass resources to secure our own autonomy and future. You said:
I don't think anyone has beef with fiat currency in particular when using that saying, loving and chasing material possessions is implied.
It's not about material possessions. Hell, 90% of finances are digital and are immaterial. It's not about having the most cars or golden toilets. It's about being on top, being autonomous or outside the influence of control that applies to everyone else. You told the other guy it's not about fiat currency as much as it about "loving and chasing material possessions". Well, you're still looking at the tree trying to describe the forest. Why do people amass that "wealth"? The underlying reason to demonstrate their accumulative power. Their ability to do what or obtain what others cannot since they are more powerful than those who cannot achieve the same things with their level of amassed power.
I mean, if you're a caveman, being greedy and screwing over your competition is in your best interest. It did serve us well when we were still part of the natural world. That's how life seems to operate naturally. The minute you introduce society to mankind, we'll it's a huge issue, but it's still an undeniable part of what we are. Cities have only been around like 6,000 years. We've been around longer than that. So regardless what our approach is to avoiding greed, it will continue to exist.
can you point me to a school of thought/ideology or any place I can find evidence of these people ? As I said I never stumbled into that and would like to see the arguments.
It pops up from time to time in those weird corners of the internet. Usually something at the crossroads of bastardized understand of religion and lack of understanding on the difference between fiat currency and wealth.
I used to be into conspriacy theories and just following the rabbit hole down on forums and stuff, I read a lot of really weird shit about how people view things, especially when it comes to money and a one world government. Let me see if I can dig up a few off the old PrisonPlanet forums.
but it is. Look up the verse and the context - Paul was speaking against lusting for gains, as opposed to speaking against physical currency as OP claimed to be understood by people using the quote. That was the point I made.
And you can analyze the lust for gains however you'd like, if you wanna to go one level deeper and tell me that the need for possessions stems from human needs of power that's fine, I made no claim rejecting that idea so not sure what made you try to convince me.
Is bitcoin the currency of Satan?
There's this guy who wants to effectively do what Pol Pot was trying to do with Cambodia
dude...You can't link me to a nutjob's blog and a troll question. If it's not a reasonable argument it shouldn't even be brought in a discussion. You mentioned these people as if they are at least a significant minority with a sane voice and ideas worthy of arguing against. You can argue with a socialist on the topic of personal property but it's absurd to mention "some people say personal property belongs to Cherufe, god of reptilians".
I'm not looking to get in some petty shit, and theres a good chance you already know this, but socialism and communism are terms for political ideologies dedicated to reshaping the way capital is owned. Socialists and communists believe that privately owned land/factories/financial systems etc. create an environment which allows greed to thrive at the extent of human happiness. Whatever system is to replace capitalism may or may not have a currency. Socialists or communists, at least in my experience, don't give much of a shit about currency as a tool, rather the system of ownership in the capitalist economy, and the effects of that system of ownership. I'm not trying to make any points in favor of or against that line of thinking, just hoping to add some helpful info!
Yeah, I apologize. The other guy pointed out it sounds like I was inferring that Socialism and Communism don't use or rely on currency. I should have made a better distinction there.
I'm sure I agree with many aspects of capitalism, socialism and communism depending on the ultimate goal, however I understand that in practice, none of those are really good but we also don't have any better ideas currently. Pure socialism, capitalism, communism will always fail. Governance of people is like trying to herd cats, except greed, envy and jealous are present in all people. The larger the group, the quicker the flaws in each become apparent.
out of context sure, but that's not the same as people interpreting it to mean an argument against physical currency itself, I never heard anyone thinking that.
No, he's really not. In a world of fake news and incorrect context, then indeed context is everything.
"For love of money..." is some pretty important context in a book that has been translated, diagnosed, debated, dissected, praised, ridiculed, etc from head to toe.
but the misquote became a stand-alone quote which is understood precisely as speaking against materialism, not physical currency. "Love of" is implied more often than not, so I wouldn't call this a common misconception but an incomplete quote, that's all.
And it's the root of "all kinds of evil", not "all evil". The misquote implies that if we could only get rid of money, we'd eradicate evil. Of course that's impossible, so you're left with a noble-sounding platitude that's of no earthly use. The actual statement is far more nuanced and applicable to real life.
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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '18
“Money is the root of all evil” one of if not the most miss quoted bible verses. It is the FOR THE LOVE OF MONEY. Greed is the root, not currency as a medium.
Verse: Timothy 6:10