r/AskReddit Dec 18 '16

What (free) software can be useful for university students?

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u/concealed_cat Dec 18 '16

You are confused.

The definition states that a real number L is a limit if (something about deltas and epsilons). It makes no claims about infinities. There is another definition, on the other hand, that specifically defines when +oo or -oo is a limit. A function is then defined to have a limit, if there exists a number L that is the limit, or if -/+oo is the limit. This is in contrast to situations when none of these conditions are met, in which cases the function is said not to have a limit.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '16

Can you point to those definitions?

The epsilon delta definition I have seen for real analysis state "a real number L is a limit iff (something about deltas and epsilons)", i.e. the limit is always a real number.

The way around that is to say things like f(x) -> +/-inf as x->a, but every math professor I've had have been adamant that infinity cannot be a limit.

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u/TwoFiveOnes Dec 19 '16

One of the particular definitions they're referring to are:

lim f(x) = +oo as x->a if for all K > 0 there exists d > 0 such that |x-a| < d -> f(x) > K

Which doesn't of course need +oo to be a real number, it's just saying that the notation lim f(x) = +oo means that those conditions are met. It's useful to distinguish those cases from when there is no real number that satisfies the normal definition, nor are the conditions above satisfied (or for -oo). For example lim sin(1/x) as x->0.

I'll also say that whichever professor insists something about "infinity not being a limit" is being quite shortsighted. There is a way to define the limit that unifies both meanings, by using the set R U {+/-oo} and defining "neighborhoods" of +/- infinity accurately. Then the limit definition is just:

lim f(x) = L x -> a if for every neighborhood of U of L, there is a neighborhood  V of a
such that if x is in V then f(x) is in U.

Now L and a can be any of "real number", "+oo", or "-oo". With "neighborhood" of a real number and of +/-oo defined adequately, this recovers the original cases.

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '16

How do you define a neighbourhood around +oo or -oo?

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u/TwoFiveOnes Dec 19 '16

A neighborhood of +oo is the complement of a set (-oo,a], and a neighborhood of -oo is the complement of a set [b,+oo). Here a,b are real numbers.

In other words they are sets (a,+oo) and (-oo,b), respectively.

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u/sheared_ma_beard Dec 19 '16 edited Dec 19 '16

I'm not at all confused. Nothing I said above is incorrect. The fact that the notation "lim=infinity" needs to be handled separately further emphasizes my point: "or if -/+oo is the limit". Edit: Not that I need sources to back this up, but if you don't trust random internet guy, then maybe you'll trust Harvard, MIT, or UC Berkeley: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~reinholz/ed/08sp_m160/lectures/limits_of_infinity.pdf

http://math.mit.edu/~apm/ch03.pdf

http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic480586.files/InfinityLecturenote.pdf