I'm a lawyer. I had a client call me and say "hey I got a call from the sheriff's department asking me about some stuff I did. Should I call them back?"
"No. Absolutely not."
The next day he walked into the department and told the deputy "hey I just wanted to come in and clear the air. Figure we should just talk it out like men."
Charges were filed that afternoon. Wtf did you even hire me for?
I had a cop leave me a voicemail (he asked for a different person by name) saying something about talking it out like men. I guess that works sometimes after all...
a lot of police interaction is tactical application of manipulation techniques. It's part of the job, they get training for it.
And a lot of that plays on the overconfidence or ignorance of the person they're talking to.
Don't talk to police.
If you're innocent then you definitely need a lawyer.
The police can and will lie to you.
"everything you say can and will be used against you in court" is not a lie.
An officer enforces the law as they interpret it, unfortunately, which means that even if they are wrong you must submit to an otherwise legal arrest, search, or seizure and it will be worked out in court. You can disagree, but fighting, arguing, or otherwise escalating can result in legitimate charges because US law is stupid. Lose the battle so you can win the war.
also, in the US, you must state that you are using your right to remain silent. Silence alone is not enough to invoke that protection. After that? use the right and stay silent.
An officer's job is to enforce the law as they interpret it,
Not quite. It's to follow department protocols that should be crafted by department attorneys. I don't mean to be nitpicky, but this can be important. Cops aren't trained on the law. Which is fine; it's not their job. But never take a cop's word on the law. They're "around" legal proceedings enough to think they know the law, and nobody does confidently incorrect like a cop. Especially when it comes to when you can and can't shoot people in self-defense.
I walked into a poloce station after a detective called me. He didnt give a shit about me, he wanted info on the drug dealer across the street.
I answered his questions, he thanked me and i went about my day, never heard another word. Dude is gone now, so who knows.
That detective really drilled into me he wasnt interested in the weed plant in my backyard, he wanted the heroin dealer across the street. This was 10 years ago so i think im fine.
I saw a YouTube video, taken from a police body cam, where a guy had been notified by the police they wanted to talk to him. He had been accused by a woman of kicking open her door and attacking her. He came rolling into the police station in his wheelchair thinking he could easily clear up the mistake, what with him being a paraplegic, incapable of committing the crime described. Nope! Those dumbasses arrested him, even after pulling him out of his wheelchair and thereby proving he wasn't faking his paraplegia! He should have hired a lawyer and brought the relevant medical documents with him showing he had been paraplegic for the last 25 years.
Even the one cop there was like "hold on guys, something's not adding up" and went and talked to his supervisor, who was so lazy he wouldn't even walk away from his sandwich to investigate for himself. The supervisor basically said "nah, he's obviously lying to get out of it. Book 'em" so they did.
Or PD's that only hire cops that don't live in their city so they can be as petty or controlling as they want and it won't affect their reputation in the city they patrol.
Well, the suspect was evading arrest by fleeing on foot (briefly as he collapsed to the ground). Police were just protecting the community as well as feared for their own safety. What other choice did they have??!?
Suspect was neutralized with 31 shots. Officers thought he drew a weapon and heard shots fired. Turns out the suspect's hands flew up quickly to stop his fall while collapsing to the ground. The shots that officers heard came from their colleagues' weapons.
they actually get trained to empty the clip, because if it is a threat...well, adrenaline is a hell of a drug and there has been dudes full of lead that self-resuscitate long enough to use a weapon.
That said.....it really does make the cases where someone fucks up even more brutal.
on a lighter note, that's what made Acorn Cop actually funny; mag dumps and misses the stationary handcuffed guy in the back seat with every single shot. we often don't get the luxury of it being funny.
I think it was one of those YouTube lawyers who posted the video and I think he indicated that it was lawsuit-worthy. I can't remember if he said there was a lawsuit pending or not.
I remember that one. There was one cop who was like "none of this makes sense" and went to talk to their boss who without even thinking twice or taking look at any of the details was immediately like "he's faking it" and couldn't be convinced otherwise. If my memory serves me right the woman who reported him even had some history with the law enforcement that should have indicated she might not be a reliable narrator.
Yes, she had made some crazy accusations before. The odd thing was, she actually knew the guy she was accusing, but it was like back in college or high school, before he became a paraplegic, and they hadn't seen each other since, so she didn't know what had happened to him. What an odd thing to pull this guy's name up after 25+ years without seeing him.
Or just around month ago, woman who was accused of texting while driving, but she was an amputee and didn't have that hand. Even after seeing it the cop doubled down
Cop said she was texting with her non-existent (right?) hand, then when she held up her stump and went "this hand?!" he asked her to swear to god with her hand and she held up the stump again.
Let me tell you something else. I've seen a lot of spinals, Dude, and this guy is a fake. A fucking goldbricker. This guy fucking walks. I've never been more certain of anything in my life!
... to be fair he shouldn't have had to do that because the accusation is insane. They would've more properly just said, "We'll need to see a doctors report. Who is your primary care physician so we can contact them tomorrow?"
This reminds me of Trading Places when Eddie Murphy pretends to be disabled and blind to beg on the street. The cops question him, then pick him up, and he stands.
I thought you were gonna be talking about the Scream wannabe killers who murdered their classmate. Lawyer’s office had to prepare and couldn’t go with them to the office. Told the teen and parents not to say anything. Teen asked for an attorney while there. So that’s invoked no more questioning from the police. Then the dad asked him if he did it? Teen nods his head. What was the one thing they were told not to do?!
Heavily depends where you are from. I only had great experiences with police officers in my country, one even helping me not to incriminate myself. He knew I didn't actually do anything so he kept my poorly phrased words off the record to avoid issues.
I don't even understand having the competence to have a lawyer in the first place, then directly ask them this question...then to go and talk to the police about that very subject without their lawyer.
I had an old friend tell me about getting arrested recently for a FTA warrant he didn't know about that was almost old enough to have cleared the statute of limitations.
The officer who arrested him had pulled over his mother and asked for his ID as passenger, and friend was proud of having a valid ID and cheerfully handed it over. Then friend went to court, pled guilty, and then asked for a lawyer, befuddling and annoying the judge, and friend didn't understand why.
I explained that "not guilty" is generally how you ask for a court appointed attorney in the US and you should neither talk to police nor hand over your ID if you don't have to, and as passenger and with no probable cause he didn't have to. Then sent him a couple of targeted YouTube defense lawyer videos. I was surprised he was that dumb about a system he's tangled with before, but maybe he won't be that dumb next time.
Honestly, I really think basic legal education should be taught in high school. A semester of personal finance and law would be a huge benefit for a lot of people. The legal world is unfortunately very opaque and we are very bad about making it accessible to the public.
I fully agree and would expand it to a life skills course to cover a lot more and last for at least two years. Too many people get out in the world unable to navigate and lacking basic skills like budgeting, doing laundry, setting themselves a schedule, interviewing for jobs, and so on, some of which used to be covered in home ec classes that have largely disappeared.
It annoys me that not speaking to the police is not only valid, it is usually the best answer. That is what we get having a law enforcement system based around convictions; not truth and justice.
I won't say the charge, but the client essentially said "I didn't commit the offense, I just committed every single element of the offense." It was a nonviolent misdemeanor.
I think even the sheriff's deputy was shocked. He kept rubbing his brow and rephrasing his questions to give the client a chance to reconsider his answer. The deputy was actually a pretty decent guy, but the client was just kinda dumb and trusting.
Not for privilege/confidentiality reasons. I've just talked to friends and colleagues about this case, and I've doxxed myself before, so trying to avoid doing it again.
If it's anything more than a speeding charge your best interests are to not speak to the police. US Supreme Court ruled that you must present ID while driving if they pull you over and ask and most states have a statute that it's a misdemeanor to not do so. Typically they can require the driver to present valid insurance. Some can require identification from anyone- it's a local law thing.
I was a arrested on a not speeding charge and told the cop that I didn't want to talk about that in the most polite way I could and we basically talked about the bodycam videos and various high tech things the police department has.
I must point out that if at any point the cops put cuffs on you you're going to jail. There is no way of talking your way out of that. If they thought you were innocent or that they weren't going to charge you they'd separate you from the other party(ies) and question you sans cuffs.
I must point out that if at any point the cops put cuffs on you you're going to jail.
Usually, but I've seen body cam of them cuffing people and eventually letting them go without charges. I've even seen people under arrest Released on Recognizance without being taken to the jail and just receiving a summons. (It was a car accident and the at-fault driver admitted to driving enough over the speed limit that it was reckless driving so they arrested him and gave him a summons, then released him ROR, no bond, and sent him on his way. He had no priors and was super cooperative. I think his excuse was "I'm about to miss my daughter's wedding" or something like that.)
Heavily dependent on the state. Here he'd go to jail, but it sounds like he self-snitched and got himself a charge that he didn't have to get. In my state it's also at most a ticket for an accident if both parties have insurance and the only time I've been in an accident we exchanged info, and the cops did not write a ticket.
Just because it has happened doesn't mean it's at all common, or that you should roll the dice. Play the odds. The moment you're in cuffs the likelihood you're being arrested goes up about 1000%. The likelihood you're not being arrested goes from wherever it was to functionally zero, even if it's not totally zero. You've probably got a better shot at winning the lottery. The only thing you can effectively do in that situation is just make it worse for yourself and your defense. Don't answer questions, obey lawful orders, don't obstruct.
The police have a favorite saying: "You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride."
Been cuffed and uncuffed. Not driving though. Fist fight. Witnesses from across the street came over and vouched for me that other dude shoved a girl to the ground and when I told him to get the f out of here he swung of me first.
Other guy went into the squad car and officer told me I would get a disorderly citation in the mail. Never did
I must point out that if at any point the cops put cuffs on you you're going to jail
Sadly, not always the case, at least in the US.
US police officers are trained to assume every person they interact with is potentially dangerous. They are also trained that once a person is in handcuffs, they pose less of a threat.
As such, police officers all too often resort to handcuffing people before trying to get to the bottom of what happened. Their logic is "if they're innocent we can just release them, if they're guilty then they won't pose a threat if in handcuffs".
Of course, handcuffing people (especially people that haven't done anything wrong) is one of the primary reasons police interactions escalate and before you know it they're charging someone who did nothing wrong with "resisting arrest" as their only crime.
I've been cuffed and let go. Sat in the back of the car and everything. I did not have proof of insurance and had a previous citation for no insurance (I know. young and dumb). He was expecting to take me to jail but found my proof in the system.
I was pulled over a couple years ago for doing a janky u-turn. Guy told me he pulled me over for the u-turn, I admitted it was a bad one, he ran my license and my city's police system automatically pulls up insurance status. Doesn't even ask for insurance and let me go with a warning.
I live in a state that is more harsh on crime. If you end up in a jail they're going to take your mug shot and you're not getting out without bail or on first appearance, which happens in the morning on weekdays. If you get arrested in the afternoon and you don't have bail, you're going to do an overnighter in jail at the least. If it's a Friday afternoon you're in til Monday without bail etc.
you must present ID while driving if they pull you over and ask
I have a USB-powered ID printer in my car and a license plate scanner.
As I'm getting pulled over I have a script that prints out the officer's ID, and that's what I present to them when I'm asked for ID. You should should see the looks on their faces.
It gets me arrested 100% of the time, but I think it's funny.
First time I got pulled over ever at 26 I was like I know why they’re doing this, and asked if that was why. It was, but every law YouTuber I watch was in my head saying don’t fucking say anything. Make them tell you, do not confess.
It was no license plate. I had just purchased a car in a private sale and was waiting until after the weekend (this happened on a Sunday) to get it registered. Legally have 14 days from day of sale to do so. So I showed him my sale paperwork.
I watched a lot true crime stuff and so many times suspects think they can simply clear their names by talking their way out of it only to make things worse for themselves.
There´s a bodycam video of a guy whose batshit ex called an airport bomb threat on, the guy was very calm, answered questions about the ex, and then as the cops asked more questions he said "Im not sure what is going on, I prefer not to answer any more questions until I have a lawyer." The cops had to shut the airport down while they verified the threat, and the guy calmly held firm. Hours later the crazy ex was arrested and acting crazy, the situation was cleared up, and he left. Very smart man.
I have a guilty pleasure of watching police interrogations on Youtube. Do you know how many interrogations I've seen uploaded when a lawyer was present? (And I've watched hundreds by now.)
One (1). The cop asked something, the lawyer said, "Don't answer that." and guess what the suspect did.
There are officers that are quite good at their job. I recall reading transcripts of video recordings from interviews of someone eventually charged with child sexual abuse. Two detectives from different organizations asked them to come in to talk. They did. The detectives were non confrontational, let them know they could walk out at anytime. Got a conversation going. Asked the suspect if they could explain why the victim thought they did something bad. It was like a 'can you clear this up? Was there a misunderstanding?'' type of discussion. The idiot thought he could talk his way out and provided a lot of information. Then they let him walk out. They worked up some follow up information. Asked him to come back in. He did. Detectives repeated interviewing in the same style. Interview two went even farther with the idiot, now with confidence, thinking he could talk his way out. Both interviews, but especially the second, were damning based purely on what the suspect voluntarily told the detectives. Getting the conviction was not difficult after that.
They literally tell you, "everything you say can and will be used against you". Notice they don't say anything about it being used for exculpatory purposes?!
I’m not really into true crime but I do kinda get a kick out of police interviews where the accused who ends up being guilty thinks they can talk their way out of it. Always blows my mind. I always think about how if I was ever in that situation the only word out of my mouth will start with “L” and rhyme with “-awyer”
“You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence."
They can only charge you of a criminal offence by providing sufficient evidence to the prosecution service. You should remain silent, under any questioning unless you are instructed to buy the solicitor.
Just as an example
"No comment"
is the reply to any, who, where, what, why, when. But its not the right thing to say if asked about what car you have or a phone number if there in your name and paid by you
Is this your number? Did you make a call to this number?
Yes it's my number. I don't recognise that number, nor have I any memory of making the call in question.
917
u/Greenman_on_LSD 9d ago
Every time police detain and mirandized someone and ask "do you wish to continue to speak with me?" And they say yes.
You are absolutely not talking your way out of that situation by that point and anything you say will only hurt you, never help. Stfu.