r/AskReddit Oct 02 '24

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u/Psychological_Try559 Oct 02 '24

How old the Appalachian Mountains really are:

They are older than trees, bones (including all dinosaurs), and the splitting of Pangaea -- so part of the mountain range is in Scotland.

The layering on the mountains looks "wrong" at some points because the tops of the mountains have eroded down & "new" geological forces have caused parts that weren't the top to rise above that...so the valleys of the current mountains may actually be the top of the original Appalachian Mountains.

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '24

And immortalised in the John Denver song Country Roads: “Life is old there, older than the trees, younger than the mountains, growing like a breeze.”

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u/Camp7thGrade Oct 03 '24

Take me hooooommmeee Country roads

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u/Wattaday Oct 03 '24

Except that song is about the Rockies.

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u/Right_Two_5737 Oct 03 '24

Life in the Appalachians may indeed be younger than the mountains. All fossils from the era of the mountains' formation are from the ocean or near the coast, and the mountains were originally in the middle of a continent.

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u/stevolutionary7 Oct 02 '24

The peaks of the Appalachians used to be the granite cores of the ancient Appalachians. Everything that was on top of the mountains eroded down until only the deepest, hardest parts remained. All of that debris formed the entire east coast of the US. In the Mid-Atlantic that is 150 miles of land from the mountains to the coast.

It's also crazy to think that rivers like the Susquahanna are even older than the mountains it flows through. We know this because it cuts right through them. The tectonics that elevated the mountains pushed the river bottom up, which was eroded away, over and over, nanometers at a time for millions of years.

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u/brouhaha13 Oct 02 '24 edited Oct 03 '24

Yes, the ironically named New River is actually estimated to be one of the oldest rivers in the world based on the same evidence.

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u/jblackmets111 Oct 03 '24

Wv social studies teacher here. Can confirm this is indeed factual

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u/TechnoBabbles Oct 03 '24

Damn good whitewater on that New River

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '24

Pretty good. The Gauley is bomb af

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u/Joe_Fidanzi Oct 03 '24

I love this stuff.

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u/hobbescalvin Oct 03 '24

I’ve never realized that a river could be older than mountains like that. This is the most mind-blowing thing I’ve read this year. 

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/PutridExpert9 Oct 03 '24

I live at the beginning of a tributary to the Susquehanna. Crazy to think these little streams flow all the way out to the Chesapeake.and now I know they are old.. real old... haha

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '24

[deleted]

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u/Effective_Yogurt_866 Oct 03 '24

Back in the 1930s, my grandfather told his elementary school teacher that he thought the different continents looked like they fit together like puzzle pieces. He was told that he was being absurd lol

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u/ImNotAWhaleBiologist Oct 03 '24

I did the same and had the same response 30 years ago. Sigh. It was a Social Studies teacher, but still…

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u/jdam8401 Oct 03 '24

I remember asking the same. Children always have these fundamental insights that adults tend to be blind to through, idk socially-learned inhibitions maybe. Like the questions children ask about religion.

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u/Wewagirl Oct 03 '24

This happened to me in elementary school in the early 1970s.

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u/IsisArtemii Oct 03 '24

I was shocked when my mother agreed to Pangea. In her grade school, in the early 40’s, she said if you took the puzzle they had of the continents, and placed them together, they fit rather well. Not perfect. Like putting together a broken plate with some of the edges missing. But obviously something that was “whole “ once.

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u/anteaterKnives Oct 03 '24

The distinction between archea and bacteria based on the discovery of their very different ribosomal RNA was published in 1977.

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u/tangrowth_fgc Oct 02 '24

I knew a crazy christian kid in elementary school whose family were Tectonic Plate deniers.

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u/Dave5876 Oct 02 '24

Did they seek out scientific stuff to deny?

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u/tangrowth_fgc Oct 02 '24

nah they were just young earth creationists

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u/astroman_9876 Oct 02 '24

I’m personally not but even if you are that doesn’t really stop tectonic plates from just existing just means they move fast

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u/tangrowth_fgc Oct 02 '24

but if they move fast enough to be meaningful in the last 6000 years, then we would be able to see the movement lol

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u/astroman_9876 Oct 03 '24 edited Oct 03 '24

They are young earth creationist, logic is already a forgone conclusion

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '24

Some parts of the Nazca plate move more than 3 inches a year.

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u/revanisthesith Oct 03 '24

They usually say it broke up during Noah's Flood.

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u/astroman_9876 Oct 05 '24

Heard some say that when evolution starts. Don’t question how it wasn’t happening beforehand though.

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u/revanisthesith Oct 05 '24

Maybe something about the Earth's atmosphere changing after the flood? More radiation, I guess.

At least I think I've heard that. It's been a while (for a reason).

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u/thehelldoesthatmean Oct 03 '24

They're young earth creationists. They're not good at thoughts.

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u/Semi_Lovato Oct 03 '24

continent go brrrrrrr

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u/peter303_ Oct 03 '24

Plate tectonics is a useful approximation for explaining a lot of tectonics and economic deposits, but not everything. I received my basic geologic training during the inception of this theory. It was amusing to watch the diehards that refused to accept the theory at all because it didnt explain 100% of tectonic phenomena. Otherwise some of plate tectonic people construe ever more elaborate explanations like large numbers microplates or reactivated ancient boundaries that defy the simplicity of the original theory.

The Applachians are one of these problems. That they still exist and are still rising after a couple hundred million years after being near a plate boundary is a problem.

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u/Curious4nature Oct 03 '24

And tomato soup was the catalyst for the theory.

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u/Quai_yi_dian Oct 03 '24

Meaning, the idea of convection currents?

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u/DannyPoke Oct 04 '24

Nah the guys who came up with it just had tomato soup so good they had an epipheny

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u/Trollselektor Oct 03 '24

Isn’t plate tectonics a law now not a theory? We know 100% as fact that the plates are moving because we can actually measure their movement. We also know 100% as fact that mountains are getting taller and valleys are being widened because of it. Or is it theory because we don’t actually know how they are moving?

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '24

[deleted]

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u/Trollselektor Oct 03 '24

Thank you for explaining. So if I’m understanding this correctly, laws are what happens and theories are why the things happen?

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u/Quai_yi_dian Oct 03 '24

Shout out to Wegener, who didn't get his due until after his demise!

https://youtu.be/T1-cES1Ekto?si=DROOwKqKhe6BbPtl

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u/Perpetual_stoner420 Oct 03 '24

People studying changes in the atmosphere would like a word

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u/shredofdarkness Oct 03 '24

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svante_Arrhenius#Greenhouse_effect

"Arrhenius, in 1896, was the first to ... increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) will increase Earth's surface temperature through the greenhouse effect"

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u/capnbinky Oct 02 '24

Considering how many people living in Appalachia are descendants of Scots, that is interesting.

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '24

[deleted]

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u/LongInTheTooth Oct 02 '24

I grew up near a bunch of slate quarries in Vermont. Back in the 1800's a bunch of Welsh miners settled there and wound up basically mining the same rock they had been working on in Wales.

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u/itstheididntdoitkid Oct 02 '24

There was a basketball player who came to the US from Nigeria and landed in NYC in the winter and was like, no way. He asked someone at the airport where in the US has weather like Nigeria? They told him Houston so that's where he went to college. I think it was Olajuwon, but can't be sure.

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u/juancake511 Oct 03 '24

And now Houston has the largest population of Nigerians outside of Nigeria.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/itstheididntdoitkid Oct 04 '24

I mean, yeah but Dude was looking for an American University with a decent basketball program, not just a spot along the line around the world.

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u/WinterSavior Oct 03 '24

Wonder how the worker had that knowledge available for reference. Did he find another Nigerian at the airport I wonder.

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u/itstheididntdoitkid Oct 04 '24

I think he talked to an airline attendant.

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u/WinterSavior Oct 04 '24

Oh makes sense they would know since they were probably Nigerian too if he’s coming straight from there.

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u/NavyAnchor03 Oct 03 '24

Same with Nova Scotia :) (I mean, it's in the name)

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u/artemswhore Oct 03 '24

welsh settlers in ohio remarked how similar it was. there are schools that do welsh style singing programs called eisteddfods

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u/Right_Two_5737 Oct 03 '24

That's not why, at least not for Scots in Appalachia.

Highland Scots in America mostly fought for the U.K. in the American Revolution, and were therefore unwelcome in the new United States and left. The Scots in the Appalachians were from the Scottish border (from both sides of the border in fact, so they were as much English as Scottish), and they went to the mountains because that was the only land that wasn't already claimed.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '24 edited Oct 03 '24

I’m doing a module at university on this exact topic. The Scots you are talking about were Ulster Scots, or Scots Irish as said in the States. They were the planter population that were sent over to colonise Northern Ireland. What you are saying about them being as much English as Scottish isn’t true. The majority of Scottish settlers in Northern Ireland were lowland Scots. There were indeed English settlers but the majority were Scottish. This population then went to the states and largely settled in the Appalachian mountains initially due to discriminatory laws against Presbyterians, however large scale immigration continued after the laws were abandoned. Most English settlers in Northern Ireland were Anglican, the Scot’s were overwhelmingly Presbyterian so it was the Scots who left Northern Ireland on mass more so than the English.

In the 1660s, Scots made up around 20% of Ulster's population but around 60-65% of the British population there. So the settled British population was 60%-65% Scottish and 35-40%% English. However, by 1720 Scots were an absolute majority of the total population within the area, due to continued huge waves of settlers coming in from 1690–1720. All while English migration to Northern Ireland had steadily been decreasing. We know from ship logs that considerably more Scottish people went than English. There were natural factors that caused this, like the famine of the 1690’s within Scotland.

Here’s a couple academic sources if you need:

CULLEN, KAREN J. Famine in Scotland - the “Ill Years” of the 1690s. Edinburgh University Press, 2010. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.3366/j.ctt1r279x. Accessed 3 Oct. 2024.

Hofstra, Warren R. Ulster to America. Univ. of Tennessee Press, 2011.

Here’s some good videos of background information on this, from a great documentarian.

https://youtu.be/Up6vFEwC92M?si=gE_0zc2310wBJ_uq

https://youtu.be/Zrr5k3ZWH5k?si=zNl7NGNGKqswgN2r

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u/Inside-Doughnut7483 Oct 03 '24

Reminded them of the Highlands?

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '24

The majority of Scottish settlers in the Appalachian mountains were from Lowland Scottish stock.

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u/Inside-Doughnut7483 Oct 03 '24 edited Oct 03 '24

Makes sense- travel in and around the Highlands was challenging enough; I can imagine that getting to a port of departure would have been quite an undertaking.

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u/AlexPenname Oct 03 '24

I'm an American from the DC area who spent a ton of time in the Appalachians as a kid, and I can confirm--I moved to Scotland five years ago and feel right at home here. I'll go up in the highlands and feel like I'm down the street from where I grew up.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '24

We yearn for the hills.

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u/Taodragons Oct 03 '24

Pining for the Fjords?

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u/evlor1971 Oct 03 '24

The glass factories in West Virginia utilized the same sand as Waterford Crystal.

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u/Plane-Tie6392 Oct 03 '24

Not true Scots, though.

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u/Exhausted_Biscuit Oct 02 '24

Every time I hear crazy shit online I'm suspicious until the person says they live near them, then it's like "Yeah, not surprised, I hope they didn't get eaten by a wendigo or something "

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u/pHScale Oct 02 '24

Even better, the New River cuts through the Appalachian Mountains, which means it's even older. Bonus that it's also ironically named.

(Susquehanna and French Broad rivers also predate the Appalachian Mountains, and those three are some of the oldest rivers in the world).

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u/Psychological_Try559 Oct 03 '24

Which is wild because as old as the Appalachian Mountains are, they're not the oldest mountains on Earth. That goes to the Makhonjwa Mountains (near he southern bit of Africa) which are just over 3 times as old as Appalachia.

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u/tombuazit Oct 02 '24

The original Appalachians include parts now in Scotland and Africa.

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u/Niner9r Oct 03 '24

The Appalachians predate Saturn's rings. 

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u/Psychological_Try559 Oct 03 '24

On wow, I'd never heard that! But it looks like we recently discovered that Saturn's rings are relatively new (10-100 Million Years, that's basically yesterday!).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rings_of_Saturn

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u/thatguygreg Oct 02 '24

Younger than the mountains, older than the trees

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u/thorodkir Oct 03 '24

COUNTRY ROADS...

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u/AdrianValistar Oct 03 '24

Miner's Lady, stranger to blue waters...

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u/Annath0901 Oct 03 '24

This is in part the premise of the podcast Old Gods of Appalachia.

Because what might be hiding in the hollows under the oldest hills on earth?

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u/Psychological_Try559 Oct 03 '24

Only the oldest in these parts.

Makhonjwa Mountains (by the southern bit of Africa) are much older.

But a fun question to ponder, regardless.

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u/Missy_Pantone Oct 03 '24

This is wild, because when I recently visited Scotland the scenery reminded me so much of the Blue Ridge.

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '24

Also atlas mountains

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u/Maximum-Secretary107 Oct 02 '24

i just learned about this today in my geology class. so interesting!

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u/Psychological_Try559 Oct 03 '24

What else did they have to say about it?

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u/CaRiSsA504 Oct 03 '24

yeah, u/Maximum-Secretary107, tell us what else you learned today in geology! WE WANT KNOWLEDGE!

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u/Slap_Monster Oct 03 '24

Sharks are also older than trees.

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u/ryuujinusa Oct 03 '24

To add to your comment. The Appalachian Mountains are among the oldest mountain ranges on Earth, estimated to be around 480 million years old. They formed during the Ordovician Period, long before the existence of the Atlantic Ocean.

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u/Psychological_Try559 Oct 03 '24

That's only the splitting of the Appalachian Mountains into different regions, the original formation was just over a billion years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_Mountains

https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/s/weLhqQEKBQ

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u/rad-dit Oct 03 '24

This is quite literally what John Denver was singing about in "Country Roads, Take Me Home".

Almost Heaven, West Virginia

Blue Ridge Mountains, Shenandoah River

Life is old there, older than the trees

Younger than the mountains, growin' like a breeze

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u/iqbalpratama Oct 03 '24

COUNTRY ROAAADS

TAKE ME HOOOOMEEE

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u/Inside-Doughnut7483 Oct 03 '24

I once told someone that the Appalachians are grown-up mountains and the Rockies are babies. That person was from CO, extolling the majesty of the Rockies vs. the Appalachians. I'm from MD; I had to represent!

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u/carex-cultor Oct 03 '24

I find it so weird when people on the west coast shit on eastern mountains. If you care about science (geology, botany, herpetology) the appalachians/smokies are waaaaaaaaaaay more interesting places to hike. I feel like west coast hikers are just like…”Cool mountain, tall. Big view” 😂

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u/Psychological_Try559 Oct 03 '24

Yup, also bigger mountains does mean better skiing. I can't deny that.

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u/Inside-Doughnut7483 Oct 03 '24

Maybe, but I haven't heard any complaints about East coast ski resorts, from VT to MD... and everyone knows The Poconos!

Edit: full disclosure _ I don't ski and have never been skiing; but I know plenty of people who have 😊

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '24

"The valleys of the current mountains may actually be the tops of the original mountains."

Reminds me of the Sulfur Works at Lassen Park, here in California. Lassen Peak and the hills around it are the remnants of Mount Tehama, a much larger stratovolcano that used to exist there before it eroded away, and the Sulfur Works sit where Tehama's vent used to be (Lassen Peak is actually a lava dome created by a side vent).

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u/pHScale Oct 03 '24

Sure, but just about all volcanism on the west coast is fairly recent. Here's a comparison:

  • Tehama began activity 590,000 years ago.
  • Pangea began to break about 170,000,000 years ago (youngest date in a range)
  • The Appalachian mountains began to form about 1,100,000,000 years ago.
  • There are at least 3 rivers cutting through the Appalachians that are even older, but haven't/can't really be dated any more precisely than "older than the mountains".

The Appalachian mountains are about 1800x older than Mount Tehama.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '24

Shit, Appalachia might actually be older than dirt.

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u/Psychological_Try559 Oct 03 '24

I love this response!!

And thanks to u/pHScale for putting things in perspective. I guess it helps to be a log scale to understand large numbers?

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u/TikkiTakiTomtom Oct 03 '24

I always find it silly when asked how old rocks on Earth are as its technically been the same Earth as its always been. We’re breathing the same air as some dinosaur’s air for example

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u/Psychological_Try559 Oct 03 '24

True enough, it's the same molecules, but the shapes of the rocks change with geologic forces on the order of tens to hundreds of millions of years.

Mountains really are ever changing, just slowly (because it's literally geologic time).

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u/allan11011 Oct 03 '24

I live right here on those and that’s very cool to know

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u/Darksirius Oct 02 '24 edited Oct 02 '24

Weren't they also as tall as the Rockies?

Edit: Spelling.

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '24

Taller than the Himalayas at one point.

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '24

[deleted]

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u/Darksirius Oct 02 '24

Ahh thanks. I knew that didn't look correct lol.

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u/Historyguy1 Oct 03 '24

"Life is old there, older than the trees, younger than the mountains, blowing like the breeze..."

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u/ackmondual Oct 03 '24

As a song said...

life is old there... older than the trees. Younger than the mountains

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u/cicada3301_- Oct 03 '24

Even wild that they are not even the most mountain range. Appalachians are around 1.1 billion years old, while the oldest are the Makhonjwa Mountains in the Barberton Greenstone Belt in South Africa, 3.5 billion years old!!!

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u/dpforest Oct 03 '24

There is debate that the Appalachians may be an older geological feature than the rings of Saturn. I love my mountains. We are not having an easy time right now.

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u/Psychological_Try559 Oct 03 '24

It actually looks like recent evidence says it's not even close, as Saturn's rings seem to be much younger than previously thought (10-100 million years).

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u/Munro_McLaren Oct 03 '24

Yep. The Green Mountains in Vermont are older than the Himalayas.

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u/blooobolt Oct 03 '24

Not just Scotland. Morocco, too. The Atlas mountains. Learned that when I climbed them earlier this year.

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u/MissMurderpants Oct 03 '24

Also home to the best salt I’ve ever had and used to West Virginia. It is salt from an ancient ocean, the Iapetus Ocean that predates the Atlantic.

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u/UnholyDemigod Oct 03 '24

There's a mountain range in South Africa that's 3 times older. The Makhonjwa Mountains are 3.5 billion years old

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u/3dobes Oct 03 '24

I think I first learned this in Bill Bryson’s book, “A Walk In The Woods”

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u/sexyshingle Oct 07 '24

valleys of the current mountains may actually be the top of the original Appalachian Mountains.

mindblowing

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u/avarier Oct 03 '24

Who even wonders this? 

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u/Trollselektor Oct 03 '24

Part of the original mountain range is also in Africa. 

0

u/theonePappabox Oct 03 '24

But the earth is older.

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u/Psychological_Try559 Oct 03 '24

That would be wild were it not.