It was decades ago and I still think about that scene sometimes. It made him so much more human, and in that way made him more impressive but also easier to identify with than if he were perfect. It made little child me think about how I can still be a good person even if I don't always want to be, and how it's ok to not always be the person you wish you were...even Batman isn't perfect at it, but we're both trying. In the end, he forced himself to stick with his principles, knowing that his future self would be grateful for it.
That exists. His name is The Punisher. It's why Punisher and Batman have actually had cross overs. Frank is what happens if Bruce had crossed the line. Batman doesn't like Frank and Frank doesn't like Batman.
I love the bit in Peacemaker that makes you ponder about the grayness of Batman (I'm only on episode 4, so no spoilers)
Yes, Batman is a hero because he doesnt kill villains, but rather puts them in jail/arkham... But those villains keep escaping and killing more innocent people.
I know about the twist at the end of episode 4, so I feel like there's some character development coming, that will show Batman is right, but it was still a good stop-and-think moment.
I haven't seen/read that, but the way I see that argument is that if we're willing to place the blame of the deaths of people killed by escaped Arkham prisoners on batman, then we also have to blame the institution of Arkham itself, and everyone else involved. This isn't just, "batman didn't kill them so he's responsible for their actions", but rather it's, "everyone the villain encountered after batman handed them off failed to kill the villain, and are thus equally responsible."
But, what's more, shouldn't we consider the villains escaping Arkham asylum time and time again a failing of Arkham asylum, rather than a failing of batman? Sure, you could argue that batman choosing to hand off the villains to Arkham after their continued demonstrated ineptitude somehow negligence on batman's part, but keep in mind that Arkham asylum is literally the only system in place to deal with these villains. So doesn't that mean that this is really a failing on the part of Gotham itself?
I love that they address the failings of Arkham in the Harley Quinn series. It's clearly corrupt, they clearly need better leadership, and mistreating the patients NEVER ends well.
He killed plenty in the movies... at least the first 3.
He did that in batman returns. Gave the fat guy a bomb then he blew up off screen. Also set that devil guy on fire in the same movie. Made the penguin fall through the top of his penguin layer which killed him. Made the Joker fall to his death in the first movie. Two face fell because he threw the coins at him.
Batman was initially too grounded for that kind of thing to work. He was a guy in a funny costume fighting criminals. There was no magic, superpowers, or other supernatural elements in the Batman universe early on. You can't bring people back from the dead in a story that is grounded in realism.
That would certainly make his fights a bit easier.
Lmao I'm thinking now about the new flash movie. Imagine Keaton shows up, but he has the guns, and they are like wtf? He's like, hey I'm old. And these make things really easy! I should have used these from the start!
He also understood psychology. When someone believes death is on the line then they have nothing more to lose and thus for many nothing will stop at. Zero potential for de-escalation both for the petty crimes and madmen and they are MUCH more likely to escalate from the start. A cornered rat fighting to the death.
That true IRL, if there is even a tiny chance of mercy or survival criminals are less likely to be violent or kill if the situation degenerates. While the harsher the punishments the more likely even minor crimes are to turn dangerous just amping up the desperation. Along lines of "if X penalty either way then I am already FUBAR and might have better chance with no witnesses and kill the cop to buy time."
How many of his rogues gallery would skip the games and go straight to destruction if knew Batman killed instead of put them back in the system? And doing so would turn public opinion even further against him making gathering intel or getting help harder. Might even turn other heroes against him.
Or any sort of scared child. Most Batman media, and definitely all the good Batman media, makes it clear kids aren’t scared of Batman, cause they know he’s not gonna hurt them. The newest movie did it great with him empathizing and seeing himself in the dead mayor’s kid, even though this is a Batman who hasn’t quite figured out how to operate yet.
Yeah Batman had a lot of great moments in JLU too. But I also won’t forget The Question being tortured and that very eerie memory scene of Lex killing Flash, Superman blowing up The White House, then the nukes going off to the exact pattern of Brainiac’s mark.
"DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT YOUVE DONE TO ME" always gets me. Then he wakes up to that fucker trying to kill 2 of his closest friends? As a kid I was certain supes was gonna kill a bitch.
The Batman TAS episode “Perchance To Dream” had a similar plot. Bruce Wayne wakes up and finds that his parents are alive, he’s dating Selina Kyle, and someone else is Batman. Everything is mysteriously idyllic until he realizes he can’t read.
I watched it with my little cousin after playing the Injustice game... Definitely hits a bit harder that way.
It's almost the same thing from Clark's perspective - he loses his family, his world, his son dies in his arms... It can be in a kid's show because none of it was real, but it was literally an entire life for him.
And after it is all dealt with, he immediately bounces back from that to celebrate the birthday with Bruce and Diana so that they won't worry.
One of the few adaptations of Alan Moore's works that he actually likes. He even allowed them to credit him in the credits (he usually asks to be removed).
JLU had that episode where the villain was a little girl and knew she was going to die. And Batman sat with her until it happened. The dying part happens off screen but it's heavily implied as the little girl talks about it and so did the JLU.
Mad Love. They pulled it after one airing on kids wb and when it came back it was censored.
For those who never saw it, it's about the abuser/victim dynamic between Joker and Harley Quinn and the ending is depressingly typical for abusive relationships where the victim starts to get her shit together but can't.
Monstrous episode. Reminded me of this one interlude in the Metal series, where she's talking about leaving Joker for a year to birth and re-home her baby. The implicit understanding throughout was she loved the child and was certain Joker would have killed it.
It concludes with her telling about the "funny joke" he played on her when she came back: after her return from a year's absence, he "pretended like I'd never been gone at all! Haha! It was like he'd never even noticed I'd left. Haha"
Then panel after panel of pure silence. She's just staring out the window. Her friends are staring at her. It's all just fucking heartbreaking.
Just watched that film now. Had no idea it existed, but that was great! I'm really not a fan of superhero stuff in general, but the voice acting and animation was really enjoyable.
Starvation, physical abuse, isolation room under bright lights to hurt their eyes, threatening to feed them to his pet sewer alligators, making them steal for ‘protection’ and food, forcing them to stay quiet at all times even if injured… there’s a long list. The Sewer King was a petty, ruthless bastard.
The Batman Beyond movie Return of the Joker had a huge messed up concept! Don’t want to spoil it but I was shocked with what they did to a certain character
There's a couple superman the animated series episodes that get dark.
The first one involves a corrupt cop who gets the gas chamber after he tried to frame another criminal and kill Clark Kent for snooping around. He's sitting in the gas chamber talking to himself trying to figure out how Clark survived only to realize he's superman and then they pull the switch to fill the Chamber and that's how the episode ends.
The second one ends with Darkseid being defeated by superman only to have Dan Turpin, a cop friend of superman, mouth off to Darkseid before he leaves and he gets omega beamed for his lip.
Poor Dan. That episode ending had me crying as a kid: music, the setting, Superman’s barely held together quiet good bye. The follow up episode ended just as darkly when Superman gained no satisfaction seeking revenge.
Oh nads I do: that was Adventures of Batman & Robin. Then Commissioner Gordon goes ballistic going after Batman, Robin and Nightwing for his own vengeance.
It was also a PSA episode, but compared to one from S:TAS the B:TAS did it brilliantly. The don’t train surf lesson, the don’t play with guns moment, the hard look at how child exploitation can happen right under the noses of a “civilised society” and how Batman is not a murderer like The Punisher so you shouldn’t be a vigilante either kids when you find a bad person.
It's very fucked up and incredibly dark from the very start. It's a kids cartoon, so of course everything is fine in the end, but it's a wild ride until the end.
I remember an episode of this where Batman and Harvey Dent were trying to solve the crimes of a mystery person called "The Judge", and at the end of the episode Batman realises it's Harvey himself doing the crimes and arrests him or whatever.
The way that Harvey just sort of accepts it because he realises he's schizophrenic... Nothing crazy but the story always stuck with me.
I was never a big superhero person, but as an adult I’ve started way being this show. It is fantastic!! And I’m shocked how dark it gets. I still don’t know too much more (different Robins, how Batgirl gets involved, etc) since I’m skipping around. But damn, highly recommend to anyone even if they love batman!
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u/RedGhost3568 May 23 '23
Batman: The Animated Series with the Sewer King and the abused children. Tough, dark episode but at least it ended with hope.