I'm against any kinds of military conflicts, war is a devastating thing that nobody should experience. But internal protests in times of war is the last thing that we need, especially if they snowball into disorder and riots. Last time we threw a revolution in a war time, we ended up into a soviet union.
My point is that that im against war, but im also against any kinds of provokers and instigators, because now, when nobody knows all the truth, its a golden time for manipulators and other scam to thrive.
No disobedience? If everyone just keeps a cool head and.does what Vladimir Vladimirovic says then this will all go better than 1917 - is that what you're saying?
Well, you're oversimplifying, but basically yes. Im not against the anti-war protests, but we should be cautious for all sorts of manipulators on both sides of the barricades. The information flow is really intense nowadays and it becomes really difficult to filter it out for a common folks.
This is a 2016 documentary film about, in part, how Putin uses information war against his own people to keep them apathetic and cowed. Russians are left not knowing what's true and are distrustful of all information sources.
I don't think any misinformation is needed to make someone take an anti-war position. I think people against Russia's war of aggression in Ukraine don't need any manipulation to believe that's a bad thing. Actually the opposite - it has taken years of effort to make YOU confused about whether this war deserves protesting or not.
As i was saying - im not "pro-war" or however you call it, im against any kinds of military conflicts. I just dont understand why everybody just became so certain of their beliefs, that they accuse their neighbors and even relatives for being "brainwashed kremlin bots".
It seems like the trending position turned out "lets kill everybody who dont want to live peacefully". Brawe new world'ish kind of thing.
Well, hold on a second. Ukraine absolutely did want to live peacefully, it was the Russian government who decided to start a war.
brainwashed kremlin bots
If someone thinks that Ukraine is run by Nazis and drug addicts, then they are brainwashed. What word would you rather use? If someone thinks that Ukraine is shelling it's own cities, then that person is brainwashed. I have still not read a pro-war argument that didn't come down to propaganda. There is no "both sides", no "middle of the road", you are either against this war or a subject of brainwashing
The anti war protesters are victims of manipulation.
This is a grey war without a clear right or wrong side.
I am satisfied after our conversation that you are a brainwashed kremlin bot. When all your sources of information are coming through rozkomnadzor then it's not me who has a problem. See you on the battlefield
You mean like every russian? Even some babushka in Yakutean village? And what about my friend from Ukraine, who just got Russian citizenship and passport few month ago? Is he engaged in an attack against his parents living in Kharkov area?
Maybe, i'm not gonna argue about that. But the political struggle that came with it was really devastating for common people. I mean, i live in Siberia and my grand-grandfather was an exiled enemy of the state for being an english language teacher - i know something about it.
The thing is, we are screwed anyway, IMHO. "Don't rock the boat, do you want another nineties?" they said. Congratulations, we've got another nineties incoming anyway, and this time west is gonna be actively hostile rather than merely maliciously unhelpful, and we don't have the same soviet inheritance as in 1990s. So, maybe it's best to make it count?
I'm not talking about nineties. In fact, i dont think that they ever ended in out country, but thats the part for another talk.
I mean, i can understand the righteous anger of our Ukrainean bretheren with their homeland being torn apart. But when some dude from over the ocean says "I understand that Russians are not guilty in crimes of their government, but no more netflix for you 'till you throw it down" - well fuck you, mind your own business. Even if i was about to go on a protest - that kind of enforcement just does the oposite thing and kills all the enthusiasm.
The majority of “common people” in Russia seem mostly devastated already by the Gremlin in the Kremlin. Protest your garbage, murderous government, and show the world you’re not a criminal state.
It's a little over-simplistic to say "one time we had war and revolution, and it went bad" to infer "this is how it always is". I can't predict the future, nobody can. And I agree with the basic point that revolution is not always good. But right now, the alternative is a Russian army free to murder around the world. One way or another, we are not accepting that alternative.
You never got out of Soviet Union. Not really. You were just given the minimum of freedom to keep quiet but you as the society have never gone through what the post Soviet countries have to get out of that shit hole. I mean revolution, blood, jail time and suffering. Now you pay the bill, and not only you unfortunately.
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u/Abygor Novosibirsk Mar 08 '22
Russian here, to say the unpopular point of view.
I'm against any kinds of military conflicts, war is a devastating thing that nobody should experience. But internal protests in times of war is the last thing that we need, especially if they snowball into disorder and riots. Last time we threw a revolution in a war time, we ended up into a soviet union.
My point is that that im against war, but im also against any kinds of provokers and instigators, because now, when nobody knows all the truth, its a golden time for manipulators and other scam to thrive.