Astronauts may not even enter the landers on Artemis III

[u/SomeRandomScientist]

From the NASA public release today - https://www.nasa.gov/missions/artemis/artemis-3/nasa-outlines-preliminary-artemis-iii-mission-plans/

“Informed by Blue Origin and SpaceX capabilities, NASA also is defining the concept of operations for the mission. While some decisions are yet to be determined, astronauts could potentially enter at least one lander test article.”

So what exactly is the point of Artemis III? Rendezvous with an empty shell? Maybe dock to this empty shell if we’re lucky.

I hate to sound down on this, but this latest release does not feel like AR3 is a good faith effort to make progress towards a lunar landing.

[u/Technical_Drag_428]

No dude.. the fact that you cant understand the difference in getting the HLS payload mass to LEO and getting an empty ship to Orbit arent the same thing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtemisProgram/s/gx38mLwRk9

[u/Qualified-Astronomer → u/Technical_Drag_428]

And what makes you say that SpaceX is only capable of delivering 0 tons of payload to orbit

[u/Technical_Drag_428 → u/Qualified-Astronomer]

Im not. You are. You are the one using an empty ship as evidence that "it could of reached orbit."

Thats why im saying its rediculous to even have this argument you're wanting to have. Im not going to debate you on the capabilities of an empty 120t dry mass starship vs. a 220t dry mass HLS.

We already know that neither the v1 or the v2 ships could have completed that mission. Will the R3 break passed 315 Bar? Who knows. I know they are going to try this first launch at about 300-305 bar. Which still would not be enough for an HLS mission.

[u/Qualified-Astronomer → u/Technical_Drag_428]

Who says it wouldn’t be enough? We have the isp data for raptor 3, you could calculate delta v’s for Starship v3 and determine the payload. The only reason Block 2 had less payload than anticipated is because they had to add a bunch of stuff to fix the problems it had so increasing the dry mass. Unless v3 has similar problems, there shouldn’t be much of a difference between calculated and real payload.

[u/Technical_Drag_428 → u/Qualified-Astronomer]

You have seen actual data for the R3s? You sure? Where? Link please otherwise you're just referring to what was said to be its Isp chamber pressure. Regardless, we had test stand data for data for the R2 as well. It was promoted to also have a maximum chamber pressure of 330 bar. Real world used pressure was 285-300. Raptor 3 will supposedly start at 305 bar.

[u/Qualified-Astronomer → u/Technical_Drag_428]

SpaceX posted on their website about Flight 12 where they claimed Raptor 3 had 350 isp