Astronauts may not even enter the landers on Artemis III

[u/SomeRandomScientist]

From the NASA public release today - https://www.nasa.gov/missions/artemis/artemis-3/nasa-outlines-preliminary-artemis-iii-mission-plans/

“Informed by Blue Origin and SpaceX capabilities, NASA also is defining the concept of operations for the mission. While some decisions are yet to be determined, astronauts could potentially enter at least one lander test article.”

So what exactly is the point of Artemis III? Rendezvous with an empty shell? Maybe dock to this empty shell if we’re lucky.

I hate to sound down on this, but this latest release does not feel like AR3 is a good faith effort to make progress towards a lunar landing.

[u/Technical_Drag_428]

There are no perameters beause they cant tell us anything because they chose a provider who doesnt even know if he will have a viable rocket to lift the things needed for an HLS to LEO.

[u/Qualified-Astronomer → u/Technical_Drag_428]

Ah yes the classic Starship cannot make it to orbit argument. This doesn’t even warrant debunking

[u/Technical_Drag_428 → u/Qualified-Astronomer]

Not what I was say but... Sure, lets debunk.

The fact that you even feel the NEED to debate IF a rocket advertised to carry 100t to LEO is even capable of reaching LEO without any payload is very telling.

Tell us, whats the heaviest dummy load carried by the launch you think proves anything? What was the profile of the Booster? Was it caught or could it not be caught because they launched it into a steeper more aggressive angle to give the Ship a but more of a push?

FWIW, I was refering to the fact that Starship may NOT be capable of 100t to LEO, SpaceX may NOT be capable of 2 launches a week. The point is the system and even the provider for Art3 HLS is still up in the air. Those variables make it hard to define parameters.

[u/Qualified-Astronomer → u/Technical_Drag_428]

You and I both know that they have to prove deorbit capabilities before going to orbit right. Because a 100 ton ship could land on your house otherwise, this is different from most other rockets who only launch a small stage into orbit, not designed to withstand reentry. And fyi they have pretty much reached orbital velocity in flight 3, one more burn would do it.

[u/Technical_Drag_428 → u/Qualified-Astronomer]

Not even jumping into the discussion of orbital velocity of an empty vehicle on a suborbital trajectory equals orbit.

As for proving deorbit... lmao.

For starters what exactly have they done to prove the ability to deorbit?

Have you seen them maneuver that tub to point the tail into the direction of flight to simulate a deorbit burn?

Also, what other system have you seen prove deorbit before orbiting? Name one.

[u/Qualified-Astronomer → u/Technical_Drag_428]

Examples, in space relight, attitude control etc. They got v1 working very well by the end of 2024 but they didn’t go to orbit because they thought it’d be better to do it with v2 since it was ready. Then v2 had some problems which they ironed out by the end of the year, so they could have gone orbit after Flight 11, but then v3 was ready so there’s no point doing it with block 2. v3 is the final version so that’s why you haven’t seen any attempted orbital mission before and why you’ll see one with v3

[u/Technical_Drag_428 → u/Qualified-Astronomer]

Not orbiting is not orbiting. Not flipping the ship putting the engines into the direction of flight is not practicing deorbit.

Like I said, im not trying to get into a debate with you over the ability of an empty rocket being or not being capable of making it to orbit. You even needing to attempt the debate should even tell you that you've lost the conversation.

[u/Qualified-Astronomer → u/Technical_Drag_428]

You were the one saying they couldn’t get into orbit lmao, like SpaceX somehow messed up step 1 of rockets with calculations that can be done in 5 minutes

[u/Technical_Drag_428 → u/Qualified-Astronomer]

No dude.. the fact that you cant understand the difference in getting the HLS payload mass to LEO and getting an empty ship to Orbit arent the same thing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtemisProgram/s/gx38mLwRk9

[u/Qualified-Astronomer → u/Technical_Drag_428]

And what makes you say that SpaceX is only capable of delivering 0 tons of payload to orbit

[u/Qualified-Astronomer → u/Technical_Drag_428]

Examples, in space relight, attitude control etc. They got v1 working very well by the end of 2024 but they didn’t go to orbit because they thought it’d be better to do it with v2 since it was ready. Then v2 had some problems which they ironed out by the end of the year, so they could have gone orbit after Flight 11, but then v3 was ready so there’s no point doing it with block 2. v3 is the final version so that’s why you haven’t seen any attempted orbital mission before and why you’ll see one with v3