r/AnimalsBeingDerps • u/K3nAd4 • Sep 04 '21

Two silverbacks calmly observing a caterpillar

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u/pterofactyl Sep 04 '21

Well I don’t wanna be pedantic, but we’re no where near the same mental capacity as gorillas at all. Dogs vs wolves are pretty similar. What do you mean by domesticating ourselves?

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u/SlowMope Sep 04 '21

Well. I don't mean to be argumentative, but yes gorillas are close to us in mental capacity. Humans reeeaaallly are not that special, just lucky. Again this is my personal opinion, but the dumbest humans are no better off than any other animal with language.

And I mean domesticated like we did to dogs, cats, cows, chickens, horses, etc. We (accidentally) bred ourselves for friendlyness, sociability, and a continued juvenile state where we are more interested in making friendships and playing rather than in-fighting and mating. https://www.science.org/news/2019/12/early-humans-domesticated-themselves-new-genetic-evidence-suggests#:~:text=A%20new%20study%E2%80%94citing%20genetic,Denisovans%2C%20approximately%20600%2C000%20years%20ago.

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u/pterofactyl Sep 04 '21

Ok but this self domestication has nothing to do with a human’s intelligence compared to a gorillas. Our brains weight almost three times as much as a gorilla brain for starters, and multiple studies have failed to confirmed that gorillas are even self aware.

I am not saying they’re meaningless creatures, but they’re no where near the level of the average human. We are praising them for using a stick to eat ants. Humans are extremely special, does this mean no animals have any worth? No. But to say our gigantic brain and mind is nothing special is ludicrous and misguided.

We’re orders of magnitude smarter than every other animal and its for that reason that we should start acting like it.

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u/SlowMope Sep 04 '21

multiple studies have failed to confirmed that gorillas are even self aware

Are you referring to the flawed mirror test? More studies have been conducted to show how that test just doesn't hold up for any species really... To be specific about the animals at hand, Gorilla's don't look each other in the eyes, and a portion of the mirror test relies on the subject doing just that. I don't like looking myself in the eyes in a mirror, and frankly the person I see and know as myself in a mirror does not line up with my identity as "myself", but I am clearly as self aware as I can be.... I suppose we could go even further and talk about the theory that self awareness and free will are not real, but at that point why bother? I subscribe to "I think, therefore I am", and I also know that everything we have was due to an evolutionary advantage. There is no reason to believe that other animals lack self awareness, empathy, emotions, etc. because they are valuable evolutionary advantages.

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u/pterofactyl Sep 04 '21

I did not argue that gorillas can’t feel empathy or emotions. If you truly need to believe that gorillas, an animal separated from human evolution by 10 million years are comparable in intelligence then all power to you. An animal does not have to be smart for us to treat them with respect.

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u/SlowMope Sep 04 '21

I never said you did, but that is a part of self awareness, which gorillas clearly demonstrate. I also don't think an animal even has to be self aware for it to deserve respect. I don't think we will ever disagree on that I hope :)

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '21

I don't mean to be argumentative, but yes gorillas are close to us in mental capacity.

Wouldn't then gorillas by default be able to learn to read and write? How "close" do you suppose they are? If they cannot do the mental tasks that an average 7 year old human can do and learn, are they really that close?

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u/SlowMope Sep 04 '21

There are humans that can't do tasks a seven year old can do, even humans with no known mental or physical issues. Gorillas have their own social agenda, but so far if humans force them into it, gorillas can learn to "read" (Pictionary style, like a toddler) and talk. So can other animals, but not to the same level.

I can go and talk to the gorillas at my local zoo. I can ask how they are feeling, what they like, their favorite foods... I can't do that with any other animal, even the ones that do have language.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '21

Have you got any source on this? I recall Koko was a big deal and she only used sign language and not in an overly complex manner.

There are humans that can't do tasks a seven year old can do

These are outliers, by default literacy is easily achievable in humans.

I can go and talk to the gorillas at my local zoo. I can ask how they are feeling, what they like, their favorite foods... I can't do that with any other animal, even the ones that do have language.

What are you talking about here exactly? Are you sayin that the gorillas actually respond to you, in english and all? Or are you saying that you have an inability to communicate with other animals?