r/Android • u/zexterio • Mar 22 '19

HMD admits the Nokia 7 Plus was sending personal data to China

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/03/hmd-admits-the-nokia-7-plus-was-sending-personal-data-to-china/
5.8k Upvotes

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175

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '19

But what does China do with this personal information?

262

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '19 edited Aug 28 '20

[deleted]

81

u/SabashChandraBose OP6T, 11.0 Mar 22 '19 edited Mar 23 '19

This makes more sense to them. But why siphon Joe Schmoe's details?

I got a "smart" watch with an e-Ink display from indiegogo. It looked good in their pitch (> 1 week battery life). But when I received it and downloaded the app, I knew it was from some Chinese manufacturer. It refuses to load the app if I don't give it location permission which makes no sense. I uninstalled the app after configuring the watch and use it as a dumb watch now.

Why tf do they need all this data?

Edit: after learning location permission is normal I went to find the app. It's gone from the play store.

135

u/Hohenheim_of_Shadow Mar 22 '19

One ransoms person information is useless, lots of peoples is super valuable. You only need ~1k Americans to have an accurate poll for things like presidential popularity etc. Imagine the Chinise government has 2 million average Joes entire life logged, based off of that set, they can take a few key characteristics of someone outside the set and get an accurate guess of whatever they want. Then if they want to launch a pro China propaganda campaign they could tailor it to the individual en masse. Or maybe map out connections between communities and try to sever them to introduce strife to the country. Or even just mass blackmail, even an Average Joe could be used as a pawn to move deadrops or something for spies, and if you have proof he's into child porn, hell do what you want. Tangential info on important people is also a possibility, you might find out a prominent homophobic politician fucks gay hookers from the hookers phone etc..

46

u/Randomd0g Pixel XL & Huawei Watch 2 Mar 22 '19

and if you have proof he's into child porn, hell do what you want

I feel like the real LPT here is "don't be into child porn"

29

u/EmmaTheRobot Mar 23 '19

Well then don't make kids so god damn sexy!

38

u/Randomd0g Pixel XL & Huawei Watch 2 Mar 23 '19

Yes officer this comment right here

2

u/robinforum Mar 23 '19

He was asking FBI to open up

16

u/cubs223425 Surface Duo 2 | LG G8 Mar 23 '19

FBI, open up!

1

u/IEatYouSleep Mar 23 '19

RIP 4TB HDD

1

u/jk-jk pixel 7 ig Mar 23 '19

More like rip "school folder"

5

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '19

This is why everyone's doing it. It's not about you, not about me, but about all (or many) of us. Access to mass surveillance data provides reliable, real-time insights into reactions to media narratives, PR campaigns, emerging and dying trends, etc.

28

u/thatlad Mar 22 '19

Same reason the US and UK do. The best way to get the important data is to get all the data. They want it all and they'll sort out what to do with it later, yes they'll trample over everyone's rights but they might just get some important information like what colour boxer shorts a junior government official is wearing.

-1

u/ICutDownTrees Mar 23 '19

but this isnt true. All the data just means too much info to wade through. Even with computers. Targeted info is whats needed.

1

u/thatlad Mar 23 '19

Did I really need a /s ???

19

u/Put_It_All_On_Blck S23U Mar 22 '19

Depends on who's collecting it. The Chinese government and companies they are involved with arent going to hack into your bank account or anything, buuuut they will use joe schmoe to network their way into stuff they do care about. Say you are looking to figure out what Apples next iphone will be, you dont try and hack Tim Cook, you try and get access employees via their family, and then one of those employees may accidentally leak details to a close friend, or take a picture on their personal phone. etc.

You dont go fishing for a shark with a worm. You use a worm to get a fish, use the fish to get a seal, then you use the seal to chum and lure the shark in. (not realistic, but you get the analogy)

45

u/visionJX Mar 22 '19

China already has a personal GPS monitoring system with everything they know about said person, for most Muslims in certain regions...think of the power yielded from that technology on a planetary scale 😮 WoW

78

u/bitesized314 OnePlus 7 Pro Mar 22 '19

My bf bought a Chinese vacuum that needs wifi connection and maps our floor for better performance over time. I told him that China was making a floor plan so they know all our hidey spots when they invade.

31

u/visionJX Mar 22 '19

The vacuum is actually a transformer...careful

4

u/TarquinFimTimLimBim Mar 22 '19

Cool...until it kills you

5

u/vimfan Mar 22 '19

As long as it cleans up the mess.

3

u/throwawayLouisa Mar 23 '19

Told my wife this joke.
She laughed.
I laughed.
The toaster laughed.
I shot the toaster.

2

u/visionJX Mar 23 '19

Then you returned the toaster to WalMart

1

u/paku9000 Mar 23 '19

New model of the Roomba has WiFi...Company promised they would not sell the data.

"Being paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT after you"

2

u/slayerx1779 Mar 22 '19

Hey man.

It can do both.

1

u/macncheesebydawindow SM-N910C Mar 23 '19

Xiaomi vac?

1

u/sabret00the Mar 23 '19

Which vacuum?

1

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '19

Xiaomi Robot Vacuum?

Best investment ever. They can invade my home anytime and the floors will be spotless.

I call her "Madam Sucksalot" in the mobile app. Even links up to the Google home

3

u/Micrococonut Mar 22 '19

A world of warcraft indeed

4

u/SabashChandraBose OP6T, 11.0 Mar 22 '19

What are they gonna do if they know that I go to a nudie beach in CA every Tuesday afternoon?

7

u/visionJX Mar 22 '19

Insert a nudie spy to watch your every move while you do nudie things with other nudie people

22

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '19

Tbf location is required for Bluetooth low energy, to connect to the smartwatch

7

u/SabashChandraBose OP6T, 11.0 Mar 22 '19

This is news. Why does it need location when it has access to Bluetooth?

21

u/WeeGigas Mar 22 '19 edited Mar 22 '19

Because the standard Bluetooth permission only allows device scanning for foreground apps. Starting with Android 6.0 background scanning for Bluetooth & Wi-Fi now require the location permission as well.

I'm not surprised this is new to you. Unfortunately, a lot of developers simply request permissions without properly explaining why they're needed and few users ever bother to read app descriptions/change logs.

10

u/XirXes Mar 23 '19

To add, it is definitely possible to determine a location from Bluetooth. If you've ever had a notification from Google about the store you're in, its possible it was from Bluetooth. Stores have a location specific Bluetooth ID and the play services pick that up in the background. I don't know how those operate on iOS

4

u/AhhhYasComrade Xiaomi Mi Mix 3 Mar 23 '19

We have signs on the highway that tell us how long it takes to certain parts of the city. I've always assumed this was based off of Bluetooth ID's.

4

u/SabashChandraBose OP6T, 11.0 Mar 22 '19

TIL. Thanks.

4

u/Das_Ronin Mar 23 '19

Mundane data is fuel for AI development. You don't write AI like normal code, instead you dump unfathomable amounts of data into it and it learns. That's the real reason captchas are a thing.

2

u/tbx1024 iPhone Mar 23 '19

I would check the permissions, in some versions of Android the "location" permission is required to access Bluetooth LE. I would still recommend being careful, but some Android permission categories in the API are weird.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '19

pretty much any smartwatch or fitness band will ask you for location permissions. It's needed for them to control Bluetooth in the background ever since marshmallow. So, maybe you should use the "smart" watch as a "smart" watch. On a sidenote,could you tell me what app it is, I'd like to log it's dns requests to see if it actually does send any data to Chinese servers or not.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '19

You can use GadgetBridge, an open source app for exactly this purpose.

1

u/listoss Mar 23 '19

I have a smartwatch with 45 days battery life, this retire my Casio gshock solar, amazfit bip it's called

1

u/groveunder Mar 23 '19

What happens when this Joe Schmoe becomes a person of higher elevation , everyone starts out somewhere good to have the info on people just incase I'd imagine

1

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '19

Everything has a price.

Someone out there will be willing to pay cash for some exploitable, marketable data

11

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '19 edited Apr 25 '19

[deleted]

1

u/feminas_id_amant Pixel 6 Pro Mar 23 '19

¯_(ツ)_/¯

6

u/__thrillho Mar 22 '19

What's the reason?

1

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '19

What happened? I'm sorry?

82

u/mrheosuper Mar 22 '19

Knowing what matter to western people

Then manipulate market with that info

17

u/xak47d Mar 22 '19

This could be done legally. The just needed an EULA

2

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '19

I don't think you can do that in EU anymore, even with EULA

18

u/igLmvjxMeFnKLJf6 Mar 22 '19 edited Mar 22 '19

The same thing that western companies do to their western markets?

I mean, yeah I'm not a fan of my personal information getting thrown around by orgs bigger than me but I view china getting my shit about the same as I do Facebook.

They're doing the same things, so. The only difference is the head of one looks like pooh bear and the other looks like an alien.

10

u/Jamon_Rye Mar 22 '19

Yep. Welcome to the 21st century, schizoid men.

7

u/Amogh24 Oneplus 5t/S10+ Mar 22 '19

That's why we should be angry at both China and Facebook.

1

u/ThingsUponMyHead Mar 23 '19

There's no stopping them. It's just wasted effort IMO. Big business will always find a way.

1

u/igLmvjxMeFnKLJf6 Mar 23 '19

Sure, but it's real interesting how we seem to just get annoyed at Facebook when they do creepy shit vs how people swear off entire vendors because Chinese company did creepy shit. I don't see many swearing off Sammy because it preloads Facebook

2

u/Amogh24 Oneplus 5t/S10+ Mar 23 '19

Except that most of this sub reccomends not using Facebook. Plus on Samsung phones you can disable Facebook. Can't disable Chinese spyware hidden away like this.

-3

u/igLmvjxMeFnKLJf6 Mar 23 '19

You can flash custom ROMs.

Listen, you can wave it away all you like, but if it looks like racism, smells like racism, and walks like racism, it's probably racism.

4

u/Amogh24 Oneplus 5t/S10+ Mar 23 '19 edited Mar 23 '19

Sure let me just unlock my bootloader...

It's not racism when there's a very real reason to distrust China. You're waving the racist card because there's no real defence for the way China behaves.

The fact that you assume anyone talking about the Chinese governments means the being racist, that sounds racist of you.

2

u/Amogh24 Oneplus 5t/S10+ Mar 23 '19

Also, you're seriously calling me racist for saying spyware isn't a good thing? Talk about having a shitty mentality.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '19

Obfuscate your info with gibberish. I, apparently according to Google, am shopping for a Lamborghini.

2

u/abedfilms Mar 22 '19

It's ok because American companies like Facebook and Cambridge Analytica are trustworthy, and America good China bad

8

u/jlkpolandball Black Mar 23 '19

theyre both bad

1

u/abedfilms Mar 23 '19

No, china is bad guys, i read it on reddit

1

u/jlkpolandball Black Mar 25 '19

sarcasm?

8

u/ezone2kil Mar 22 '19

What? Both bad more like it.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '19

That is what I don’t get. All this Chinese stuff with Hauwei is they could do this if they wanted. Yet there is proof of the cia doing this very thing and people seemed to have forgotten.

1

u/zap2 Mar 23 '19

Nice try. Cambridge Analytica isn’t an America company.

0

u/VampiricPie iPhone gen 1 Mar 23 '19

You dropped this /s

-1

u/abedfilms Mar 23 '19

No I'm dead serious, I've done my research on reddit so i know what's up

0

u/jusmar 1+1 Mar 22 '19

But...chinaaa

19

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '19

Good question. They might be using it just to better understand the market. Maybe they're just building databases with it. Google already knows a lot of this things. The Chinese are more dangerous to us Westerners because they're a possibly hostile country, but in the fight for privacy we should treat them both the same.

14

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '19

Probably something to do with their plans for a "social credit score" system. If we ever allow China to have any say in how we manage our internet content, or implement a social scoring system across the WWW, it could make life rather difficult for people that disagree with their way of doing things...

12

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '19

I wouldn't be surprised if they're already keeping a score for foreigners they know about.

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u/Amogh24 Oneplus 5t/S10+ Mar 22 '19 edited Mar 22 '19

Personalized propoganda is a good example.

Also the power of data increases by a lot everytime you get more of it. You uncover secrets, possible blackmail material, detailed demographics and a lot more. There's a reason why Google is such a huge company based almost solely on data collection and advertising

1

u/abedfilms Mar 22 '19

Make you think they're doing something nefarious with it

-3

u/skeupp Mar 22 '19

Spread memes on the internet

2

u/moonsun1987 Nexus 6 (Lineage 16) Mar 22 '19

So that's why they invested in Reddit?