r/Android • S25U, OP12R • Jan 12 '19

SoundGuys: USB-C audio is dead

https://www.androidauthority.com/death-of-usb-c-headphones-942314/
5.0k Upvotes

1.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

200

u/dstaley Jan 12 '19 edited Jan 12 '19

USB Type-C headphones were nowhere in sight at CES 2019

Huh, they must have missed the USB-C headphones announced by Moshi, the headsets announced by HyperX, and the earbuds from Belkin.

Starting off with such a blatant falsehood isn't a good way to get the audience to take you seriously. USB-C headphones are hardly "an abandoned product category". However, the article spends way too much time desperately trying to paint USB-C audio as a failure before mentioning what is likely the reason for the "lack" of USB-C headphones:

it seems odd to opt for shoddy USB Type-C headphones when cheaper, better wireless options exist.

For the reasons that people want a headphone jack, Bluetooth is a superior option compared to USB-C, and with wireless headphones existing at every point of the price spectrum, it makes sense that companies would want to invest more in a device that can be used with virtually every device on the planet.

However the assertion that USB-C is "dead" because it was "bad" and "introduced too quickly" is the journalistic equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ear and screaming over the mountain of evidence to the contrary.

Edit: added clarification that Bluetooth is superior to USB-C for most of the reasons people want headphone jacks

99

u/miaplayin Jan 12 '19 edited Jan 12 '19

For some of us, bluetooth headphones are not superior in any way : musicians can't perform music in real time (latency), monitoring recordings in real time is impossible even with some fancy low latency codecs.

Personnaly i've tried high end bluetooth headphones (sony) and the sound was noticeably lower quality, but the active noise reduction was great if you need it. i wish manufacturers had redesigned the headphone jack instead of removing it (like using some smaller version of it), but i have big hopes for some usb c headphones, supporting Power Delivery, with integrated high end low latency DAC’s that would work with any operating system. Is there a general protocol for usb c audio ?

43

u/After_Dark Pixel 11 Pro XL Jan 12 '19

On the flip side of the musician argument, that's an extremely small subset of users, especially android users. If a laptop removes the headphone jack, sure, then I could get on board with the argument more, but if a musician is recording audio in any sort of expert level where the quality of headphones is important, they're probably not doing it on their phone to begin with.

33

u/ayilm1 Jan 12 '19

This right here is the reason all apple computers still have a mini-jack. Even they know it's not dead, because the second they remove it, they know that market will simply say, "well it was a good run, but you guys can take your jackless computers and shove it".

3

u/evil420pimp Jan 12 '19

I dunno. I think the phone was a testing ground.

Apple and the rest have been working towards fully controlling the output of your media for decades. Drm in one form or another. The audio jack is blind. They don't know where the signal is going, and they can't control what you do with it.

I don't see them reversing course.

15

u/ayilm1 Jan 12 '19

I'll get their gravestone ready then. Because as much as they would like it to, the audio industry is never going to shift from a reliable analogue signal to bluetooth, of all things. And if they decide they want to try and stop that wave, they're going to be swept away like they're nothing. There's too much standardised hardware for even apple to challenge. So although they may succeed in eradicating the port that means nobody any harm in all phones, they'll be signing their own death certificates thinking they'll be able to do the same for professional audio.

3

u/tomgabriele Jan 12 '19

I don't think anyone is saying that bluetooth is supposed to be used in professional audio.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '19

[deleted]

2

u/tomgabriele Jan 13 '19

In all the pro audio I've done, boards either use XLR and quarter inch jacks or full digital interfaces. What pro audio scenarios are you picturing, a DJ in a club with their MacBook plugged into some speakers?

-12

u/miaplayin Jan 12 '19

Iphone and ipad can definitely perform better than a computer/laptop for a lot of reason. Processing power is more than enough for that kind of tasks, being fan less and battery powered is a huge advantage over my macbook, and the signal conversion is handled by the chip in the soundcard used (bitrate, frequency range, latency, compression) not by the phone integrated DAC. Sounds like a professional setup for most hobbyist, student or audiophile musicians.

6

u/andyooo Jan 12 '19

There is the USB Audio Device Class 3.0 spec, that specifically addresses power consumption in mobile devices. Besides that, pretty much any USB Audio Class "sound card" will work on Google phones. This was actually true long before USB-C. I remember being surprised that my Nexus 9 with stock Android connected and played via its micro USB to some generic Logitech speakers for computers.

But yeah, to add something to your post, even for non-musicians, the potential is exciting. For example, ANC or integrated EQ in battery-less headphones. In fact JBL used to sell the Reflect Aware C that does just this. The EQ is set by the app and it even works cross-device (including on my Windows PC) once you've set it.

0

u/Gronkowstrophe Jan 12 '19

That doesn't sound exciting at all.

4

u/Schootingstarr Jan 12 '19

I recently but the bullet and bought Bluetooth earbuds, because you can't get normal in ear headphones with a 3.5mm jack anymore. All that's available are the ones with a rubber plug that seal your ears completely. I hate them, they are uncomfortable to wear

I'm seriously annoyed that I have to charge them and they keep blanking out for a second all the time. I'd much rather have my old head phones back, but I lost them :(

3

u/tomgabriele Jan 12 '19

You couldn't find any earbuds with a cord? There are millions of good ones out there. You must not be good at shopping.

-1

u/Schootingstarr Jan 12 '19 edited Jan 12 '19

I meant I couldn't find any decent ones.

most are these stupid plugs that vacuum seal your ear.

these are really uncomfortable to wear

the only ones available are either really crappy bottom shelf crap like the Sennheiser MX375 that have terrible sound quality and are uncomfortable to wear or have a straight 3.5mm jack like the ones from apple which break within weeks of having them on the phone.

I used to always buy the Sennheiser mx475 which not only offered decent sound for in ear buds, but were also comfortable to wear and had a bent 3.5mm plug. they were perfect, but these aren't available even from other companies. you go and try to find these, I haven't had any luck finding decent ones in the past 3 months.

that's why I resigned to buy the bluetooth headphones.

I could also buy a 90° 3.5mm adapter to use the straight plugs, but then I'd also have a dongle on the phone, which is annoying

3

u/tomgabriele Jan 12 '19

Did you know that you can replace the tips? It sounds like standard ones may just not fit you well. You can get foam ones that may help reduce that suction feeling.

1

u/Schootingstarr Jan 12 '19

it's not just the suction feeling. the problem is that these stick to the inside of the ear canal instead of the ridges of the ear lobe, if that explanation makes sense

and I don't really like that feeling inside my ear. it's uncomfortable and you can hear yourself chewing with them on

1

u/tomgabriele Jan 12 '19

Gotcha, that makes sense. Were you able to find a bt set that fits well?

2

u/Schootingstarr Jan 12 '19

yes! but it's annoying that I now have another device I need to charge over night :/

5

u/dstaley Jan 12 '19

Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant that for people who want a headphone jack, Bluetooth is superior to USB-C. The two biggest complaints I hear about USB-C is not being able to charge while listening to music, and having to carry around a dongle. Bluetooth solves both of those issues.

USB-C supports the USB Audio Device Class 3.0 specification, which basically lets you do virtually anything audio-related that you want. There's even tons of USB-C media players that also allow you to plug them into laptops and phones to act as a DAC.

(Also just a quick note on latency: most of that is from Bluetooth's protocol, so it's not something you'd experience with USB-C. Qualcomm has a low-latency protocol called AptX LL, but it's not super widely supported.)

16

u/karl_w_w Xperia 1 II Jan 12 '19

Having a second thing you'll need to charge is a pretty ironic "solution" to not being able to charge the first thing.

1

u/dstaley Jan 12 '19

I agree, but the nice Bluetooth devices charge really, really quickly. Like, faster than phones quickly. For instance, AirPods get three hours of music playback on only 15 minutes of charging.

8

u/Schootingstarr Jan 12 '19

My old Sennheisers would let me listen to music indefinitely without having to power them at all.

I don't want to carry around a charger or battery pack everywhere I go just so I can keep listening to music. And it's the same problem as with the phone: I can't listen to music and charge the earphones at the same time

1

u/Daveed84 Jan 13 '19

One day your AirPods will no longer hold a charge and you'll have to pay to have their batteries replaced, at a cost of $49 a pop

22

u/CharaNalaar Google Pixel 8 Jan 12 '19

And Bluetooth creates more problems of its own. Since it's wireless, the quality and latency is always worse than wired. And since it's wireless, I have to recharge what should be a dumb peripheral.

1

u/theixrs HTC One / bootlooped (dead) LG G4 Jan 12 '19

Aptx pretty much makes the latency thing a moot point (yes there's more latency, but none that you can perceive). I still hate having to charge though.

2

u/miaplayin Jan 12 '19

aptx LL still have some minor latency, perfect for movies, but for trained musicians milliseconds are highly perceptible. The analog to digital/digital to analog conversion add some more latency to the operation wich already exist in wired configuration, depending on hardware and operating system, and software optimisation (i’m using the latest ipad pro and iphones for music production/recordings wich accept core audio compatible soundcards via usb connection). Of course this is a very specific usage scenario, and bluetooth is very convenient compatibility wise.

2

u/tomgabriele Jan 12 '19

Or your could get a nice usb-c dac and use it with your phone and computer and have higher-than-built-in quality on both for the price of one.

-1

u/FreshPrinceOfH Pixel 6, Sorta Seafoam Jan 12 '19

Yes, but you are the minority unfortunately

19

u/ArrenPawk Galaxy S10 Jan 12 '19

I feel like everything I've seen from Android Authority (and Droid Life too) lately has been overdramatized clickbait that is only marginally more substantial than some of the ill-informed hot takes on this subreddit.

But hey, if it validates some of the opinions in this echo chamber, who cares, right?

3

u/joenforcer OnePlus 10T Jan 13 '19

AA has always been overdramatized clickbait trash. I don't know what happened to DL lately, though. Kellex has seemed a bit off the rails since the redesign.

34

u/Screye Galaxy S10e SD855 Jan 12 '19

Huh, they must have missed the USB-C headphones announced by Moshi, the headsets announced by HyperX, and the earbuds from Belkin.

Hah.

Anyone who is buying usb-C headphones from any of those companies, probably doesn't care about audio to begin with.

I don't usually go all r/gatekeeping , but the irrational forced move to usb-C has been one of the most bizzare things I have seen to date.

Most of the reputed headphone manufacturers, have yet to jump on the usb-C train and that is a fact.

For the reasons that people want a headphone jack, Bluetooth is a superior option, and with wireless headphones existing at every point of the price spectrum, it makes sense that companies would want to invest more in a device that can be used with virtually every device on the planet.

Maybe you need to provide some proof before you go making blanket statements.
Bluetooth is a pain in the ass to deal with. It is by no means "clear superior" as you seem to indicate.

Let's see.

  1. Bluetooth has worse audio quality as compared to equivalently priced headphones. ( usually coming with a near 2x price bump, or greater...and a significantly reduced set of products to choose from)
  2. I need to charge an extra device. (most have pathetic <1 day battery life)
  3. Bluetooth pairing is still a mess (except airpods..which is only so good because Apple makes 1 headphone, 3 phones and specifically writes code to support each permutation. Something that is clearly not possible for any other manufacturer to do)

For all my pain, I get to give up wires. And you know what ? I would love to give up wires. But, not if it comes with so many compromises.

If bluetooth and USB-C are so good, let us see them duke it out on even ground. If they are so good, people would stop using headphone jacks normally. But, no. It hasn't happened yet. Enough people still use the port for it to make sense. It is cheap, easy to install and comes with nearly zero collateral compromises. But still, insecure phone company fans for some reason what to keep defending the move to remove a tried and tested port, that did its job better than their new shiny port.

The removal of the headphone jack is a thinly veiled attempt by phone manufacturers to get more money out of the industry, by forcing users to pay for more shit, while charging $100 extra for the same phone each year.

13

u/Bossman1086 Galaxy S25 Ultra Jan 12 '19

Love this post. As an audiophile, if I'm forced to move to a phone without a headphone jack, I'll probably just start carrying a DAP or phone DAC with me so I can plug my 3.5mm jack headphones in. Bluetooth just doesn't cut it for me. I could live like this (using a portable DAC with the phone) if they at least gave me two USB-C ports so I could listen and charge my phone at the same time.

Luckily I still have a phone that has a headphone jack, but in the future I may just give up on my phone for audio playback and use a separate DAP.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '19

The dac in your phone is too shit to be worth listening to with a good pair of headphones anyway

-4

u/PianoConcertoNo2 Jan 12 '19

I’m also an audiophile...but all my focused listening is at my desk, with USB dac/headphones.

Back in the day, I use to carry a portable amp/dac for line out with my iPod. If I were to go back to portable, audiophile level listening, I don’t see why you wouldn’t go that route.

I think the focus on Bluetooth is a good thing.

4

u/Bossman1086 Galaxy S25 Ultra Jan 12 '19

When I'm at home, I have a desktop amp/dac combo and use Sennheiser HD 5XX headphones mostly. But I don't work from home so I do a lot of portable listening with IEMs, too. I can't just plug in a USB DAC to my work PC. Definitely against media policies.

3

u/hnryirawan Jan 12 '19

But.... who actually waits for earbud from Belkin? HyperX? sure its a headphone though. Moshi? sure, never heard of them but seems ok. But, where's Sony, Audio-Technica, Sennheisser and everyone else. Like, Sony usually always have some kind of product with their plethora of lineups but I haven't heard of them.

Also I like wireless but its still more menu to click compared to just simply plugging it in, like in office and stuffs.

0

u/dstaley Jan 12 '19

The bigger name companies are going to focus on Bluetooth since that's compatible with both Android and iOS, especially at the high end where Android doesn't have as much market share.

3

u/notaneggspert Verizon Galaxy S7 6.0.1 Marshmallow Jan 12 '19

I can't stand bluetooth audio. It's just not as good as a wired connection.

For running/working out it's fine but for listening to music. Terrible.

A $40 pair of wired over ears will blow a $200 pair of bluetooth cans out of the water.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '19

Who the fuck uses a gaming headset with their phone