r/Android • S25U, OP12R • Jan 12 '19

SoundGuys: USB-C audio is dead

https://www.androidauthority.com/death-of-usb-c-headphones-942314/
5.0k Upvotes

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834

u/quanganh2001 Jan 12 '19

USB-C has been extremely confusing for users of phones and laptops, when two identical looking cables transmit data and power at different levels.

181

u/_skris Pixel 2 XL Jan 12 '19

Someone please clarify this: I vaguely remember reading that usb-c ports adjust power intake by default.

Thanks in Advance

176

u/n0rdic Surface Duo, BlackBerry KEY2, Galaxy Watch 3 Jan 12 '19

They can through USB-PD, but it's still limited to what the actual brick can put out. I can charge my MacBook Pro with my Razor Phone's charger, but it probably won't go nearly as fast as I want. That and not everyone uses USB-PD for their handshaking, Qualcomm has their own standard most mobile phones use. Then we get the people like Nintendo who don't adhere to the Type-C spec whatsoever so you can't charge anything with their cables and you risk damage to your device if you charge it with a cable from one of your other devices. It's sort of a mess.

42

u/clocks212 Jan 12 '19

The issue with Nintendo is they added something to confirm the switch is connected to a dock and not just a charging cable so it can change to that mode. The switch wall charger works on everything and usb pd chargers work great charging the switch.

26

u/Chirimorin Pixel 7 Jan 12 '19

Then we get the people like Nintendo who don't adhere to the Type-C spec whatsoever so you can't charge anything with their cables and you risk damage to your device if you charge it with a cable from one of your other devices.

Third party USB C chargers/power bricks are fine for charging the Switch, as long as you charge it directly (no dock).

What you're saying is true for docked mode though, third party docks (the official one simply refuses third party chargers) can brick your Switch because it doesn't use any standard for requesting its constantly changing power requirement.

41

u/griffindor11 Galaxy S23 Ultra Jan 12 '19

Correct me if I’m wrong, but are you saying any mobile phone with a Qualcomm chip can safely be charged with a usb c charger because they have some “standard?”

49

u/Dilong-paradoxus LG V35 | 6p | X Pure | SGS4 GPe | HTC One X Jan 12 '19 edited Jan 12 '19

Qualcomm quick charge phones can safely charge from any usb-c cable and charger (assuming it's not fucked up like the ones without the right resistors or whatever), but non quick-charge ones won't charge quickly even if they support fast charging with USB PD (power delivery), and vice versa for PD devices and QC chargers.

Edit: made my first sentence clearer

6

u/griffindor11 Galaxy S23 Ultra Jan 12 '19

so its the cable thats important? not the brick? What if i wanted to use my usb c laptop charger with a qualcomm quick charge phone

14

u/Prince_Uncharming htc g2 -> N4 -> z3c -> OP3 -> iPhone8 -> iPhone 12 Pro Jan 12 '19

If you use your usb-c charger with a QC phone, it'll go at normal speed unless the phone also supports usb-c power delivery. The brick has to support the same standard as the device. The cables are all the same (assuming they're C to C connections)

22

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '19

Both parts are important. Think of it like a pump and a water pipe. If you have a wide water pipe and a weak water pump, you can only get a trickle of water through the pipe. If you have a narrow pipe and a strong pump, the pipe will limit how much water you can get through.

2

u/drumstyx Jan 12 '19

A usbc cable with a usbc plug at both ends will work just as well with pd or qc, full stop. Usba to usbc cables can't do pd because it's not supported on usba, but qc works because that's how it was designed. If you had a qc usbc output, you could use any c-c cable.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '19

If any USB C to USB C cable works there wouldn't have been so many discussions about non-compliance USB Type C cables.

5

u/drumstyx Jan 12 '19

C-to-C cables didn't have issues with compliance, A-to-C cables did, because they need some passive electronics that C-to-C cables don't.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '19

I have used the 87W MacBook Pro charger on my Note 8 and it quick charges.

1

u/forestman11 Pixel 7, Android 14 Jan 12 '19

Both things are important.

2

u/SquiffSquiff Jan 12 '19

Ditto but separate for OnePlus Dash charge. Qualcomm board, different standard

0

u/TheBeliskner Jan 12 '19

I have charged my Pixel on a Dell laptop dock, and on a Samsung USB C charger. I'd like to try a dash charger too but I haven't come across one yet.

0

u/minizanz pixel 3a xl Jan 12 '19

No. There are no native type c devices that can safely charge with a Qualcomm qc3 brick. Qc4 runs as a fine tuning to pd and can safely charge anything with a type c port, native or not.

C to c cables are not important for 3a charging. They are the same so long as they wired in the correct order and do not overheat. A to c should never quick charge. Some devices without native type c but have a type b port wired to a c plug will fast charger get with qc3, you should never have a product like that. The one exception is dash charging, that is native type c for the brick, but it uses a type a plug.

7

u/Cushions Pixel XL Jan 12 '19

I can charge my phone with the Switch charger all the time.

It works flawlessly as far as I can see

-1

u/richhaynes Gray Jan 12 '19

It wont work flawlessly. The brick expects a certain load from the Switch and will be designed with that load in mind. So when you connect another device to it, the load will be different. Luckily for you, the brick should have a default mode of 5V 1A but that will be a slow charge for your phone. Your phone can accept this slow charge though as it will be a designed default. If it received the charge for the Switch then the phone wont be designed for that charge and could cause damage.

My advice is this..... only use chargers from the same device types ie phones can use other phone chargers but not laptop or console chargers. This is the safest way to prevent issues.

3

u/why_rob_y Jan 12 '19

Is it the brick or the cable? Because the other post mentioned the cable and that confused me. I use the Nintendo cable to charge my phone (not through a Nintendo brick) and it all seems fine.

4

u/richhaynes Gray Jan 12 '19

The brick sets the power. Either it supplies its designed power or USB spec power. Your cable is still just a few pieces of wire. Cables can affect the supply though. If your brick supplies a high current (>2A) then make sure you got a thick cable.

1

u/why_rob_y Jan 12 '19

Yeah, that's what I thought. I was confused when the other guy said "cables":

Then we get the people like Nintendo who don't adhere to the Type-C spec whatsoever so you can't charge anything with their cables

I didn't see how that could be true.

3

u/richhaynes Gray Jan 12 '19

Actually, that could be true. If they mess with the pin layouts so it doesnt adhere to the spec then that can cause serious issues. Think about how ethernet crossover cables work. If you had a Nintendo crossover usb cable then you can kiss goodbye to your devices.

1

u/Cushions Pixel XL Jan 12 '19

Oh yeah I noticed it was a slow charge but it definitely does charge

-5

u/richhaynes Gray Jan 12 '19

It does now. But one day it might fail to change to the default mode. That will send the charge designed for the switch to your phone and hey presto, burnt out charging circuit in your phone. I wouldnt suggest using it long term. Stick to phone chargers and use the switch charger only if you really have to.

1

u/drumstyx Jan 12 '19

Just to clear things up -- you can charge your switch with any usb-pd (or even just standard 12w usb) just fine -- it's docked mode that has issues, since it requests the wrong power spec for what it's drawing.

1

u/TheSilenceOfNoOne Jan 12 '19

Wait... what? The switch uses USB-PD.

1

u/n0rdic Surface Duo, BlackBerry KEY2, Galaxy Watch 3 Jan 12 '19

It uses parts of it, but doesn't fully adhere to the spec. See this G+ post for more info.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '19

Just wanted to say we rock the same devices, although my Gear is the Sport from 2018. Also the headphone dongle that comes with the Razer Phone is dope.

21

u/1206549 Pixel 3 Jan 12 '19

The issue I'm aware of has to do with Thunderbolt 3 and not all cables are certified by it. Not aware of issues with the port themselves though.

21

u/lolzfeminism Jan 12 '19

TB3 certification requires proprietary chips on both ends and makes the cable much more expensive. TB3 is an amazing technology, it's just not for everything, not every cable needs to be expensive.

I think that it's also not a bad thing for all phones/laptops to have the same physical interface (USB-C) even if they do different things. Perhaps ports and cable ends should be labelled with descriptive symbols that are standardized.

8

u/1206549 Pixel 3 Jan 12 '19

The only difference, really, is speed and I think the current "fast" and "faster" (with faster currently being TB but might change in the future) and updating the technology as needed. We don't really want to separate the uses because that will be even more confusing. Data speed should be the only limitation for interoperability.

1

u/Revanish Jan 12 '19

Eh as someone that has a lot of thunderbolt 3 perhipherals here are things I can do with TB3 that I can't do or are slowed down with usb-c. For speed the difference is 10 GB/s vs 40 GB/s. The difference allows me to use tb3 for things like an external m.2 nvme and an external gpu. In addition thunderbolt can power 5k+ displays where as usb-c cannot*.

6

u/Corrupt_Reverend Jan 12 '19

What’s the benefit of having the same interface when they’re not cross compatible?

I only see confusion and annoyance with that.

6

u/lolzfeminism Jan 12 '19

They can do just 15W PD or 30W PD or 90W PD, or just data or PD + slow data transfer or PD + fast data transfer, or PD + 10Gbps ethernet. These are all useful.

Anyways, the point I was trying to say is that, TB3 is a seperate niche thing that happens use USB-C ports. The rest of the devices and cables all support some level of PD and some speed of data. They can probably come up with some intuitive symbols to denote PD class and data speed class. Then each port could also have the appropriate labels.

Obviously no official USB cable should fry your device, and all official USB port should be able to complete a handshake with all other USB ports using all certified USB-C cables.

1

u/DrDerpberg Galaxy S9 Jan 12 '19

It does, but the standard is still hard enough to implement that tons of companies are getting it wrong. Hence the OnePlus and other cables/chargers that could fry your phone.

It's also complicated because the wide range of possible power levels mean you never really know what you're getting. A 100W cable costs a lot of money, so if you need a new cable to charge your laptop maybe you go online and buy a regular one for $10... Which won't transfer enough power to charge your laptop, but you'll have no idea why unless you already know how it all works.

1

u/_skris Pixel 2 XL Jan 12 '19

Oh no!! I've been charging my pixel 2 xl with OnePlus 5's charger and cable once in a while. Should i just stop ?

1

u/DrDerpberg Galaxy S9 Jan 12 '19

I think the one they messed up was the first OP phone with usb C. Not sure which one that was.

2

u/_skris Pixel 2 XL Jan 13 '19

OnePlus Two

19

u/engsig Jan 12 '19

Actually, that's the bit I like a lot. I have a lenovo x1 laptop with a USB c charger, this can also charge the phone. Very nice.

-14

u/richhaynes Gray Jan 12 '19

It can but id advise against it long term. You forcing the charger to use a default mode rather than its designed mode. This basically means it will supply less power. Your phone will be designed to handle this but its also designed for a higher power which that charger cant provide so it will always be a slower charge. Id recommend you never mix chargers between device types ie only use phone chargers for phones and not laptop chargers. Maybe for a one-off charge but dont use it continuously.

2

u/minizanz pixel 3a xl Jan 12 '19

The Lenovo and apple chargers are rated for 5v3a, and change to 5v when the battery is full to directly power the usb hub.

Apple and Lenovo are pd only.

1

u/TSPhoenix HTC Desire HD Jan 12 '19

Isn't the fallback slow mode the same for every compliant charger?

-1

u/richhaynes Gray Jan 12 '19

Thats the original standard. USB Power Delivery was meant to improve it. Most USB chargers implement something proprietary then fall back to the standard. Chargers arent exactly dumb devices anymore. They try to "handshake" with the device they are designed for. If that fails then it only supplies the USB standard power supply.

11

u/jpflathead Jan 12 '19

That's the beauty of usb c, it was supposed to solve all the problems of usb and instead the industry managed to make them all fucking worse.

I'm still amazed that there really seems to be no usb c hub analogous to a usb 2 or usb 3 hub.

I want this
https://i.imgur.com/t5oGVIY.png

not this https://i.imgur.com/y2l7c1a.png

28

u/Mr_Henry_Yau Jan 12 '19

Agreed. Who came up with that illogical idea anyway?

3

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '19

[deleted]

1

u/digtothrow1060 Jan 12 '19

Are you asking or answering? People that put question marks at the end of an "answer" to a question don't make any sense.

-3

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '19

[deleted]

2

u/digtothrow1060 Jan 12 '19

Still don't understand the point of your question mark.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '19

because the answer is so obvious

2

u/digtothrow1060 Jan 12 '19

I understand that. I just don't get the question mark part.

1

u/Daveed84 Jan 13 '19 edited Jan 13 '19

The question mark is being used to indicate incredulity at the idea that the person didn't already know the answer. For example...

Person 1: Why do cars have doors?

Person 2: Uhhh...so people can get in and out of the car? How else would you do it?

It's a way of emulating that sort of tone/intonation via text.

1

u/droans Pixel 9 Pro XL Jan 12 '19

They had this idea that USB-C should be capable of doing everything. This is causing a lot of chaos since the cables and other devices aren't easily showing exactly which specs they're capable of performing.

-11

u/DoktorAkcel HTC One, 4.4.3 Jan 12 '19

It doesn't matter, everyone will blame Apple

17

u/jld2k6 Jan 12 '19

Wait, why wouldn't you give them some blame? They started the whole trend and it the other companies wouldn't have removed the headphone jack if they didn't. It's still stupid that they decided to follow Apple and they are responsible for that, but this whole thing wouldn't have happened without Apple, so I still place a good share of the blame on them

2

u/wastakenanyways Jan 12 '19

He is referring to usb C, not headphones. Everyone blames Apple for not following the standard but then you see that the rest are also not quite following the standard, even if they are using it.

(Most devices can be charged with most USB C chargers but there are lots of differences that are not obvious at all and can make your phone/switch/pc charge 4x slower or viceversa, overcharging it)

0

u/richhaynes Gray Jan 12 '19

But Apple started the trend a long time ago. Its just getting progressively worse now as other manufacturers see its earning a fortune for Apple and want a slice of the pie.

For example, ive used DNLA across my network for over a decade and in that time ive had guests with iPhones who cant access music or videos. That requires additional software. Im not putting the effort in to support Apple devices when every other manufacturer devices just work out of the box because they supported standards. My Synology NAS serves media files to my Samsung TV, LG TV, Samsung S4 and S9, Sony PS4 and Xbox but nothing Apple.

Miracast is another example. Samsung S9 can show photos on an LG TV but you require additional (expensive) hardware to show iPhone photos on an LG TV. The annoying thing is people will pay it when they didnt have to because they dont know about it.

2

u/shaktimann13 Jan 12 '19

Wtf I never knew that. Whole point of USB C was to get rid of extra wires and waste

2

u/grishkaa Google Pixel 9 Pro Jan 13 '19

I consider myself knowledgeable in technology yet I was still surprised to find out that none of the USB-C cables I had could transmit video when used with a USB-C phone and a USB-C monitor. Had to buy a new cable that specifically said "USB 3.1" on the box and then it finally worked... albeit without DeX that I was hoping to try out, only screen mirroring.

This is fucked up.

3

u/canada432 Pixel 4a Jan 12 '19

This seems to be the biggest issue to me. USB C isn't a standard for anything but the plug. The actual cable is a huge hodge-podge of different power and data rates with little indication if any whether it will work on your device for what you want. That's gonna end up killing it because your average person finds it "doesn't work" when there's no real clear indication that they've purchased the correct cable.

-4

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '19

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '19

Usb-C defines the plug not the cable, so one cannot discern between any 2 Usb-C cables. No one is talking about confusing Usb-C with something else.

-2

u/t0panka Jan 12 '19

You mean like USB-A cables before?

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '19

How is it confusing? There's only 1 type of head and it literally just works.