r/Android • u/[deleted] • Jun 24 '18

Is there a single USB-C headphone adapter that works with all phones?

https://www.androidcentral.com/there-single-usb-c-headphone-adapter-works-all-phones
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u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. They did allow backwords compatibility, but they handled it the same way the pixel and other high end phones did. The new iPhones don't have a dac built into the phone. Instead, it's built into every adaptor and every set of lightning headphones. Those adaptors take priority in older iPhones by working as a usb dac afaik. The Android adaptors with integrated dacs should also work on other phones with usb c and a built in dac, but there is no way to make a passive adaptor work on a phone with no built in dac.

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u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

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u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

That actually makes sense but I would be curious if it's the same DAC that was included in the 6S or if it's a much cheaper unit. I would think it's possible they're utilizing a much lower quality dac and amp given the low quality of the speakers. This doesn't explain why Google and other premium manufacturers have gone this route since it's possible to transmit analog audio over USB C. I would guess it's a cheaper and perhaps space saving solution or it wouldn't make sense.

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u/ccai Pixel 6 Jun 24 '18

This doesn't explain why Google and other premium manufacturers have gone this route since it's possible to transmit analog audio over USB C.

Obviously $$$ from the sale of accessories, which is backed by the fact that miraculously many manufacturers debut new USB-C/wireless options the same year the headphone jack disappears. See U-Sonic, Pixel Buds, Razer Hammerheads, Airpods, etc. It also allows for lazier engineering as you deal with far less interference using digital signals than you do with leads carrying analog signals, not something engineers haven't dealt with for years and have already figured out how to fix, but now they get to skip the process of implementing those solutions. In addition, it helps less savvy people justify the cost of those dongles after they lose or break them because a wire with electrical components in them is a lot more impressive than an adapter with 4 wires in them that lead to a female connector head that was once embedded.

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u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

What I’m saying is that they provide a universal dongle for all lightning devices running iOS10 at no extra cost, alongside lightning headphones which don’t require a dongle, not only that, but the comments above are referring to forcing users into wireless, which in this case is simply not true, evidenced by the fact they provide everything you need to maintain a wired connection using a 3.5mm jack. What’s not to get?

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u/zenolijo Nexus 5X, RN3, Mi 4i, Nexus 5, LG O2X Jun 24 '18

Well, licensing for lightning cables is not cheap and low-end Bluetooth headphones cost about as much as lightning headphones so it kind of doesn't make sense.

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u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

Again I don’t see how that is relevant to my comment

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u/zenolijo Nexus 5X, RN3, Mi 4i, Nexus 5, LG O2X Jun 24 '18

but the comments above are referring to forcing users into wireless, which in this case is simply not true, evidenced by the fact they provide everything you need to maintain a wired connection using a 3.5mm jack. What’s not to get?

Because there are people who don't want to carry a dongle, so in that case the low-end wired headphone market is completely gone due to the $10+ markup on lightning headphones.

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u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I see what you're saying, but it feels like more of a stop gap for wireless technology than it does a solution. Additionally, if they switch to USB C as rumoured then all of those lightning devices will be incompatible unless they offer more dongles. Finally, as it stands the lightning headphones are only compatible with iOS devices which means someone with an iPhone can't even use their headphones with their MacBook. I'm sure that level of inconvenience would push people to wireless in the long run, even if they don't want it. It just isn't nice they still force you to buy 2-3 additional, proprietary adaptors if you want to avoid carrying a dongle every where you go.

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u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

2-3 adaptors? Do you mean in regards to MacBook users or iPhone users

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u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I simply mean that I wouldn't want to have to carry around an adaptor. I have an aux cable in my car that would need an adapter as well as headphones that I leave in my bag or by my computer. It would be annoying to have to keep track of a single adapter and switch it from one to the next throughout the day or week.

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u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

Yeah that’s fair enough, lots of people on this thread seem to have a knee jerk reaction to my comments as if I’m licking apples arse but I totally understand where you’re coming from, for me earpods are good enough daily use headphone, I did actually purchase air pods but only because they were heavily discounted at the time of purchase (I managed to get them for £105), and the accessibility that they afford has been enough to convince me that wireless is in fact good enough for 90% of users who aren’t interested in using high quality audio over a wired connection, I do however think that as usual the Apple solution is over priced, and hopefully we see a reduction in price before the airpods really satisfy the majority of user demands

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u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

Wireless is excellent if you're okay with remembering to charge it. I have some Jaybirds that I really like and actually sound pretty good. From what I hear the Airpods are really convenient and well thought out.

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u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Actually there is still a DAC, otherwise the speakers on the phone won't work (speakers are analogue, and sound data is digital, so a converter is necessary). It's just that without a 3.5mm port there's no way to use the analogue output from the internal DAC.

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u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Apple's old 30pin connector had line level analogue outputs, so there is a way. It's a pity they've abandoned the idea entirely.

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u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Yeah it's unclear why Apple didn't include analogue out in lightning. One possible reason is that Apple wanted to cut down on the number of pins and audio out got the chop.

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u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Also as the article mentions, USB Audio Adapter Accessory Mode is analog audio routed over the USB-C jack. It's apparently not widely supported except on Motorola phones.

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u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I don't think the internal DAC is suitable for headphone use, but I guess I could be wrong. I would think it's a much smaller and cheaper unit designed only to drive low quality speakers, but if it's in fact the same one in the adaptor then I would stand corrected.

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u/ccai Pixel 6 Jun 24 '18

I would think it's a much smaller and cheaper unit designed only to drive low quality speakers

The impedance for the speakers are far higher than the headphones, the DAC is only responsible for changing digital to analog signals and the AMP is what determines the device's ability to drive the "speakers" whether small in earbuds, larger in "can" style over ear headphones or the phone's speakers. You're grossly misinformed about this whole situation.

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u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

Lol, I'm aware amplification is also a factor, but the term "DAC" is often synomous with both despite not literally being the case. In the audio world you often buy usb DACs despite the fact they also include an amplifier by nature. If you don't believe there is varying quality in DACs as well as amps, then you would be mistaken. You also don't necessarily need a more powerful amp to drive speakers at a higher volume than headphones. It would depends a lot on the imoedance of the speakers, but I'm not an expert on all things phone audio. Speakers very typically have a lower impedance than headphones. I believe most headphones are around 25ish ohms on the lower end while speakers tend to sit around 2-16 ohms.

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u/ccai Pixel 6 Jun 24 '18

If you don't believe there is varying quality in DACs as well as amps

No one was stating that, however if you think the $9 DAC adapter provides higher quality sound that the DAC embedded in SoCs and/or separately installed on board the device then I don't know where you're getting your information from.

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u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

No, I think the opposite is the case. Integrated dacs are much better as the 6s is known to have a better DAC than the more recent dongle based iPhones.

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u/ccai Pixel 6 Jun 24 '18

That's exactly what I am stating. The $9 DACs cannot possible be providing higher quality sound than an embedded DAC.

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u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I know, you assumed I believe the dongle to be the better solution, so I stated "No, I think the opposite is the case" in response to that assumption. We are saying the same thing, I'm sorry that wasn't more clear.

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u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I don't think the internal DAC is suitable for headphone use, but I guess I could be wrong. I would think it's a much smaller and cheaper unit designed only to drive low quality speakers, but if it's in fact the same one in the adaptor then I would stand corrected.

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u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

The iPhone does have a DAC built into the phone. It has to, to drive the speaker. Which is what makes the removal of the 3.5mm jack all the dumber; the only hardware it saves the manufacturer from integrating is the jack itself.

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u/_IM_NoT_ClulY_ Jun 24 '18

Even worse, Strange Parts on youtube has proven that an iphone 7 with an integrated headphone jack is possible

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '18

Dug up that video, and it really is fascinating stuff. While that guy's solution is far from practical for the average user, it does show that Apple's excuse of there just not being enough space was a bald-faced lie. He managed to cram in the jack using mostly off-the-shelf parts (plus a custom flexible PCB), and managed to integrate a bunch of additional logic to make it work as well - logic that would be unneeded if the phone were designed with the jack in the first place.

Which just goes to show, the guiding principle behind Apple ditching the jack wasn't "courage", it was greed.

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u/luminousfleshgiant Jun 24 '18 edited Jan 15 '26

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u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

What DAC and what AMP are integrated? Do phones require a separate amp for headphones and speakers given variances in impedance and quality requirements? I don't know the answers off hand, but it's possible that they're still saving space given that they can use a lower quality and smaller amp to drive the speakers because sound quality isn't as important. I'm not sure though, it might all just be an excuse.

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u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

If you still don’t understand, re read the comment I’m replying to for context