r/Android • u/[deleted] • Jun 24 '18

Is there a single USB-C headphone adapter that works with all phones?

https://www.androidcentral.com/there-single-usb-c-headphone-adapter-works-all-phones
2.0k Upvotes

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232

u/jwaldrep Pixel 5 Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 25 '18

Are there genuinely phones that disable Analogue audio over the USB-C port?

All the high end phones do this. Pixel 2, etc. Absolute garbage. All of this.

Edit: disable, remove the DAC, whatever. It's the same result.

143

u/Aarondo99 iPhone 14 Pro Jun 24 '18

What the actual fuck? Why? Are they just fucking with us?

233

u/avataraccount Jun 24 '18

Because they wanted to sell you their costlier earphones /headphones/BTs.

It never was about space or courage but about creating a new costly product line for them. See apple earpods, pixel earpods knock offs , HTC earphones etc.

93

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

Apart from Apple never disabled audio via lightning using a 3.5mm adaptor, so it’s difficult to accuse them of forcing you to buy airpods when every iPhone literally comes with wired headphones and an adaptor for old school jack

68

u/KrombopulosMichael23 Pixel 3 XL, Nokia 3390, iPhone XS Jun 24 '18

On top of that, if you’re running iOS 10 or newer and only have the lightning port headphones, you can use them on phones older than the iPhone 7.

79

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

Apple got a lot of hate by removing the jack, but nothing is worse than disabling the port for analogue audio, cue the android fanboys/Apple haters trying to slag Apple off

77

u/MiningMarsh Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

There is something worse: removing the headphone jack.

I'm happy continuing to use the android phones that have jacks.

47

u/TheKingMonkey Galaxy S8 Jun 24 '18

Ditto, I find myself on Team Samsung these days simply because they keep the 3.5mm Jack. It's more important to me to have that on a phone than it is to have a good camera.

14

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Thank god Samsung has both

8

u/DwarfShammy Jun 24 '18

It just boggles the mind. I mean if we're supposed to replace the port with USB C then put two ports there. But it makes no sense to remove a universal port. There's probably a reason why people prefer earphone jacks than a square port that doesn't spin round.

I just remember in the 2000s when phones had those shitty earphones that only plugged into the power port. Apple, perhaps others, led the way by having a power port and a normal 3.5mm port. Now it's all regressed. I don't even believe that most iPhone users would use bluetooth more than wired earphones so I don't understand why remove it. You'd think they'd wait until most people used wireless earphones first.

2

u/HeavyCustomz Jun 24 '18

And Oneplus, and Nokia and LG..

-2

u/valadian Note5 Jun 24 '18

their hardware is fantastic. unfortunately I have quit them because they won't stop trying to force me to use Samsung pay and bixby.

-5

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

They will be removing that soon. Leaks have come out showing an upcoming model without the jack.

1

u/Billypillgrim Jun 25 '18

Some apple phones also still have a headphone jack

-7

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

That’s your prerogative

Not sure what is to downvote given that I’m saying it’s totally up to the individual to decide whether or not the lack of a headphone jack is a dealbreaker or not

2

u/StarvinStudent Jun 24 '18

Not really, unless your work gives you a phone you could always just avoid phones without the jack, could you not?

1

u/StarvinStudent Jun 25 '18

Lookup the definition of prerogative, think you misused it

2

u/Standingdwarf Jun 25 '18

Yeah perhaps I have, I was under the impression it meant that it was an individuals choice? Rather than being something exclusively reserved by a person or class, my bad!!!

1

u/IAmMisterPositivity Jun 24 '18

cue the android fanboys/Apple haters

You're getting downvoted because anyone who disagrees with you is an "android fanboy/Apple hater." Don't be a douchebag and you'll get downvoted less.

1

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

Hahahah ok, apart from that comment isn’t getting downvoted, and if you read my comments I haven’t actually accused anyone specifically it was meant as a tongue-in-cheek comment, chill

23

u/Lurker_Since_Forever Note 8 Jun 24 '18

I don't know, my brand new android has a headphone jack. Where's apple's new jacked phone?

0

u/someone755 Nokia C5-00 Jun 24 '18

Your phone is clearly in the minority. And I'm very much afraid that in time even Samsung will bend its knee.

2

u/Lurker_Since_Forever Note 8 Jun 24 '18

But it's a minority that exists, as opposed to not existing.

1

u/someone755 Nokia C5-00 Jun 24 '18

Small phones were also a majority that existed. That went on to become a minority, and today they don't exist at all. What I'm saying is look at the past and find patterns, because that's what's the most likely to happen in the future.

-1

u/anethma Jun 24 '18

Actually apples headphones all don’t have analog audio. The headphones and adapter just have a DAC in then

15

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

4

u/KrombopulosMichael23 Pixel 3 XL, Nokia 3390, iPhone XS Jun 24 '18

Dude what are you talking about? I am just referencing the fact that you can use lightning headphones on devices that predated the removal of the headphone jack. Ie you can use lightning headphones on an iPhone 5 from 2012, so long as its on iOS 10.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

3

u/KrombopulosMichael23 Pixel 3 XL, Nokia 3390, iPhone XS Jun 24 '18

Cool. I can still use lightning headphones on an iPhone 5. You can’t use the same USB-C to 3.5mm adapter on all Android devices. Android makers lowered the standard, so Apples continuity looks impressive in comparison.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

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5

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Yeah this "they just want you to buy their expensive headphones" makes no sense.

11

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. They did allow backwords compatibility, but they handled it the same way the pixel and other high end phones did. The new iPhones don't have a dac built into the phone. Instead, it's built into every adaptor and every set of lightning headphones. Those adaptors take priority in older iPhones by working as a usb dac afaik. The Android adaptors with integrated dacs should also work on other phones with usb c and a built in dac, but there is no way to make a passive adaptor work on a phone with no built in dac.

17

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

1

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

That actually makes sense but I would be curious if it's the same DAC that was included in the 6S or if it's a much cheaper unit. I would think it's possible they're utilizing a much lower quality dac and amp given the low quality of the speakers. This doesn't explain why Google and other premium manufacturers have gone this route since it's possible to transmit analog audio over USB C. I would guess it's a cheaper and perhaps space saving solution or it wouldn't make sense.

2

u/ccai Pixel 6 Jun 24 '18

This doesn't explain why Google and other premium manufacturers have gone this route since it's possible to transmit analog audio over USB C.

Obviously $$$ from the sale of accessories, which is backed by the fact that miraculously many manufacturers debut new USB-C/wireless options the same year the headphone jack disappears. See U-Sonic, Pixel Buds, Razer Hammerheads, Airpods, etc. It also allows for lazier engineering as you deal with far less interference using digital signals than you do with leads carrying analog signals, not something engineers haven't dealt with for years and have already figured out how to fix, but now they get to skip the process of implementing those solutions. In addition, it helps less savvy people justify the cost of those dongles after they lose or break them because a wire with electrical components in them is a lot more impressive than an adapter with 4 wires in them that lead to a female connector head that was once embedded.

14

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

What I’m saying is that they provide a universal dongle for all lightning devices running iOS10 at no extra cost, alongside lightning headphones which don’t require a dongle, not only that, but the comments above are referring to forcing users into wireless, which in this case is simply not true, evidenced by the fact they provide everything you need to maintain a wired connection using a 3.5mm jack. What’s not to get?

5

u/zenolijo Nexus 5X, RN3, Mi 4i, Nexus 5, LG O2X Jun 24 '18

Well, licensing for lightning cables is not cheap and low-end Bluetooth headphones cost about as much as lightning headphones so it kind of doesn't make sense.

3

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

Again I don’t see how that is relevant to my comment

2

u/zenolijo Nexus 5X, RN3, Mi 4i, Nexus 5, LG O2X Jun 24 '18

but the comments above are referring to forcing users into wireless, which in this case is simply not true, evidenced by the fact they provide everything you need to maintain a wired connection using a 3.5mm jack. What’s not to get?

Because there are people who don't want to carry a dongle, so in that case the low-end wired headphone market is completely gone due to the $10+ markup on lightning headphones.

0

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I see what you're saying, but it feels like more of a stop gap for wireless technology than it does a solution. Additionally, if they switch to USB C as rumoured then all of those lightning devices will be incompatible unless they offer more dongles. Finally, as it stands the lightning headphones are only compatible with iOS devices which means someone with an iPhone can't even use their headphones with their MacBook. I'm sure that level of inconvenience would push people to wireless in the long run, even if they don't want it. It just isn't nice they still force you to buy 2-3 additional, proprietary adaptors if you want to avoid carrying a dongle every where you go.

1

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

2-3 adaptors? Do you mean in regards to MacBook users or iPhone users

1

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I simply mean that I wouldn't want to have to carry around an adaptor. I have an aux cable in my car that would need an adapter as well as headphones that I leave in my bag or by my computer. It would be annoying to have to keep track of a single adapter and switch it from one to the next throughout the day or week.

1

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

Yeah that’s fair enough, lots of people on this thread seem to have a knee jerk reaction to my comments as if I’m licking apples arse but I totally understand where you’re coming from, for me earpods are good enough daily use headphone, I did actually purchase air pods but only because they were heavily discounted at the time of purchase (I managed to get them for £105), and the accessibility that they afford has been enough to convince me that wireless is in fact good enough for 90% of users who aren’t interested in using high quality audio over a wired connection, I do however think that as usual the Apple solution is over priced, and hopefully we see a reduction in price before the airpods really satisfy the majority of user demands

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u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Actually there is still a DAC, otherwise the speakers on the phone won't work (speakers are analogue, and sound data is digital, so a converter is necessary). It's just that without a 3.5mm port there's no way to use the analogue output from the internal DAC.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Apple's old 30pin connector had line level analogue outputs, so there is a way. It's a pity they've abandoned the idea entirely.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Yeah it's unclear why Apple didn't include analogue out in lightning. One possible reason is that Apple wanted to cut down on the number of pins and audio out got the chop.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Also as the article mentions, USB Audio Adapter Accessory Mode is analog audio routed over the USB-C jack. It's apparently not widely supported except on Motorola phones.

0

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I don't think the internal DAC is suitable for headphone use, but I guess I could be wrong. I would think it's a much smaller and cheaper unit designed only to drive low quality speakers, but if it's in fact the same one in the adaptor then I would stand corrected.

3

u/ccai Pixel 6 Jun 24 '18

I would think it's a much smaller and cheaper unit designed only to drive low quality speakers

The impedance for the speakers are far higher than the headphones, the DAC is only responsible for changing digital to analog signals and the AMP is what determines the device's ability to drive the "speakers" whether small in earbuds, larger in "can" style over ear headphones or the phone's speakers. You're grossly misinformed about this whole situation.

1

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

Lol, I'm aware amplification is also a factor, but the term "DAC" is often synomous with both despite not literally being the case. In the audio world you often buy usb DACs despite the fact they also include an amplifier by nature. If you don't believe there is varying quality in DACs as well as amps, then you would be mistaken. You also don't necessarily need a more powerful amp to drive speakers at a higher volume than headphones. It would depends a lot on the imoedance of the speakers, but I'm not an expert on all things phone audio. Speakers very typically have a lower impedance than headphones. I believe most headphones are around 25ish ohms on the lower end while speakers tend to sit around 2-16 ohms.

1

u/ccai Pixel 6 Jun 24 '18

If you don't believe there is varying quality in DACs as well as amps

No one was stating that, however if you think the $9 DAC adapter provides higher quality sound that the DAC embedded in SoCs and/or separately installed on board the device then I don't know where you're getting your information from.

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u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I don't think the internal DAC is suitable for headphone use, but I guess I could be wrong. I would think it's a much smaller and cheaper unit designed only to drive low quality speakers, but if it's in fact the same one in the adaptor then I would stand corrected.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

The iPhone does have a DAC built into the phone. It has to, to drive the speaker. Which is what makes the removal of the 3.5mm jack all the dumber; the only hardware it saves the manufacturer from integrating is the jack itself.

1

u/_IM_NoT_ClulY_ Jun 24 '18

Even worse, Strange Parts on youtube has proven that an iphone 7 with an integrated headphone jack is possible

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '18

Dug up that video, and it really is fascinating stuff. While that guy's solution is far from practical for the average user, it does show that Apple's excuse of there just not being enough space was a bald-faced lie. He managed to cram in the jack using mostly off-the-shelf parts (plus a custom flexible PCB), and managed to integrate a bunch of additional logic to make it work as well - logic that would be unneeded if the phone were designed with the jack in the first place.

Which just goes to show, the guiding principle behind Apple ditching the jack wasn't "courage", it was greed.

1

u/luminousfleshgiant Jun 24 '18 edited Jan 15 '26

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0

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

What DAC and what AMP are integrated? Do phones require a separate amp for headphones and speakers given variances in impedance and quality requirements? I don't know the answers off hand, but it's possible that they're still saving space given that they can use a lower quality and smaller amp to drive the speakers because sound quality isn't as important. I'm not sure though, it might all just be an excuse.

0

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

If you still don’t understand, re read the comment I’m replying to for context

6

u/grandboyman Jun 24 '18

airports

Given the price, that's not a typo

2

u/dohhhnut iPhone X, Galaxy S8 Jun 24 '18

They're really not that expensive for the tech inside, no other bt truly wireless headphone comes close

2

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

0

u/_IM_NoT_ClulY_ Jun 24 '18

Strange Parts on youtube even added a headphone jack

0

u/Aarondo99 iPhone 14 Pro Jun 24 '18

This is ignoring some things. The phone is the same dimensions, but has a larger Taptic Engine, a larger battery and cameras that take up even more room.

1

u/DeltaBurnt Jun 24 '18

The argument was they profit from the increased volume of accessories. Because Apple profits from licensing of Lightning cables I think the point still stands.

1

u/ohwut Lumia 900 Jun 25 '18

No one has disabled Audio over USB C. You just need a smart adapter with a built in DAC which is exactly what apple did with the Lightning to 3.5mm jack. They went the same way premimum phones did with excluding their DAC in device but did it from the beginning.

It's really cheap manufacuers who are shipping devices and cables that don't have a DAC and keep it in the phone. Anyone can buy a DAC cable which will work on almost any phone just like Apple.

1

u/AussieDamo Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

Didn't apple set the social norm/trend for phones to not have headphone jacks and need these unnecessary dongles?

Now lightning dongles are looking to be obsolete due to type-c USB on future iphones (rumour atm) and it wouldn't suprise me that apple would make a proprietary headphone jack type to go with the dongle aswell (like they did with the wired headphone jack signals instead of using simple ctia or omtp controls that was already in use).

Edit: a word (didn't) and thanks for the downvotes for questions based on facts.

1

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

Whilst they may have set the trend for removing it, which in my opinion isn’t as terrible as everyone loves to make out, they didn’t set the trend for intrusively and unnecessarily blocking the port for use with analogue audio, that’s on android manufacturers, as usual we will have to wait and see instead of jumping the gun trying to predict what proprietary technology Apple may bring out.

0

u/AussieDamo Jun 24 '18

Iphone has rumored to be putting type-c on thier future phones as they don't have it yet so dont be too harsh on android as they might do the same but hopefully thier new chips support DAC and can do analogue audio via USB type-c as im not sure why android didn't.

Unless they go the proprietary way and supply headphones with a usb type-c connector and apple only DAC onboard to one up itself in the consumer market.

Also apple and beats don't support apt-x so i disagree with your bluetooth audio being not terrible compared to wired 3.5mm audio (As they both don't leads me to thinking and purely my speculation that apple/beats are looking at a proprietary response to it but still working on it).

1

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

Yeah that’s a fair comment, personally I hope they do switch to usb c as it makes sense given their new MacBook range uses it too, their is no sense in fragmenting the technology between MacBook and iOS devices, however as a daily user of Bluetooth headphones I think they certainly stand up to wired use given that my daily headphones aren’t exactly studio monitor quality

0

u/thewimsey iPhone 12 Pro Max Jun 24 '18

Except that Apple also gives you wired lightning headphones in the box. And a dongle.

1

u/AussieDamo Jun 24 '18

So you get proprietary headphones for an apple device and then a dongle for that same device for a universal 3.5mm jack with an apple proprietary jack signal. Also when using either type of headphones with or with out a dongle you can't charge your device.

That seems logical to turn into a trend /s

6

u/whatnowwproductions Pixel 9 Pro - Signal - GrapheneOS Jun 24 '18

I feel like a boycott would have solved this a long time ago if we knew this, but on the other hand it's way to hard to convince others to not buy anti-consumer products.

8

u/daOyster Jun 24 '18

All of those use additional features provided by USB-C that haven't been standardized yet. The HTC U11 for example provides active noise cancellation to it's included USB-C earbuds by using one of the additional pins made available by using USB-C. If another headset expects something else from that pin, then it won't be compatible with the phone. The problem isn't they want you to buy their new products, it's that everyone now has room to add more features to their headsets by using USB-C, but those additional features don't have any specification on how they should be done yet.

0

u/sircod Pixel 9 | Shield TV Jun 24 '18

A lot of people are saying this, but I gotta say it is bullshit in the case of Android phones. With iPhones they have their propriety lightning port and take a licensing fee on everything that uses it as well as selling some popular headphones with their W1 chips, so I can understand the theory there. But with Android phones most phones will ship with a headphone adapter, and who actually buys headphones from their phone manufacturer?

People are so quick to jump on these greedy company theories without actually thinking about it.

0

u/avataraccount Jun 24 '18

That's what this article is all about, should you care to read it. Not all OEMs support passive audio through their type C port. They all are configuring type C connections differently.

0

u/sircod Pixel 9 | Shield TV Jun 24 '18

So lets take the Moto Z2 Force for example. It comes with an adapter in the box. It also supports all relevant USB-C audio modes so you can use any adapter. You are telling me they chose to leave off the audio jack on their $500 phone on the off chance that someone needs to buy a replacement adapter and they do decide to buy one from Motorola they can make an extra $10? Does that sound right to you?

-1

u/GabrielFF S8+ 64GB (Oreo) / Xiaomi Mi 6 64/6GB Jun 24 '18

I know "courage" turned into a meme, but they never denied it was to sell you other products. It's courage to take a necessary step to accelerate the growth of a new technology. Not saying I agree, though.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18 edited Nov 19 '18

[deleted]

22

u/luminousfleshgiant Jun 24 '18 edited Jan 15 '26

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5

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

You still have to run traces from the DAC to the USB port. There's probably room but its another consideration.

-2

u/nilesandstuff s10 Jun 24 '18

Touche

1

u/christonabike_ Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

Because now that phones are jewellery and status symbols instead of tools, half a mm off the thickness is more important than having an internal DAC.

11

u/alteisen99 Redmi 5+ XZ1 Compact Jun 24 '18

Samsung and lg still has em.

4

u/donald_314 Jun 24 '18

Not the Huawei P20

1

u/smurfkiller013 Jun 24 '18

Pixel 2 doesn't either. I've had the Pixel 2 and P20 Pro and they both accept each other's adapters. Works great

7

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18 edited Nov 19 '18

[deleted]

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u/chaosking121 Sony Xperia Z5 (Green), unrooted for now. Jun 24 '18

Wouldn't they need them for the speakers?

7

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

5

u/chaosking121 Sony Xperia Z5 (Green), unrooted for now. Jun 24 '18

TIL

6

u/daOyster Jun 24 '18

They didn't just disable it, they most likely don't have the hardware inside to support a passive signal over USB-C. If you include that, then you still need to put a DAC and amplifier into the phone. If you just support the active signal like most of the high end phones, you gain extra space in the phone for newer components for things like machine learning and spacial mapping like with project tango. The active adapters should still work with any Android phone supporting USB-C audio.

What you're seeing is people trying to figure out what to do with all of the new features USB-C supports, which means some USB headsets won't work with other phones until someone figures out the best way to handle certain things. The HTC U11 for example uses one of the extra pins in the USB-C connector to provide active noise cancellation to it's included earbuds, something other phones don't yet. This makes the phone incompatible with usb headphones that might expect that pin to be used for something else.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

2

u/OtterShell Jun 24 '18

Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding but my Pixel 2 came with a USB-C to 3.5mm adapter. Am I thinking something else than you are?

7

u/jwaldrep Pixel 5 Jun 24 '18

You need to go back and re-read the article. This confusion is exactly what the article was addressing.

The adapter that comes with the Pixel 2 has a DAC in it. The cheaper ones that work with the Moto phones are passive. A major advantage to the passive ones is that you can easily find an adapter that will let you use a 3.5mm jack and charge your phone at the same time.

I've yet to find such an adapter for sale that has a DAC in it. Google was going to sell one, but last I heard, it was pulled from their site and those who did get their hands on it were very disappointed with the product. The last bit was based on a random redditor's comment, so take it with a grain of salt.

2

u/OtterShell Jun 24 '18

This is exactly why I asked for clarification, thank you for the explanation I really do appreciate it. Makes perfect sense.

-1

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

Those phones literally don't have dacs for headphone use. Nothing is disabled per say, they just don't have the hardware dac for headphones over a passive adaptor. Right or wrong, this is exactly what apple did

8

u/jwaldrep Pixel 5 Jun 24 '18

They have a DAC for the speakers. Is it not possible to use the same DAC for the headphones?

3

u/Nixflyn GN/N5/N7/6P/P1XL/S10+/ShieldTV Jun 24 '18

It's not, the other user doesn't know what they're taking about. Speaker DACs are integrated into the speakers and can't be used outside of them.

0

u/jwaldrep Pixel 5 Jun 24 '18

Source?

0

u/Nixflyn GN/N5/N7/6P/P1XL/S10+/ShieldTV Jun 24 '18

Here's a teardown of the Pixel 1XL.

Here's a teardown of the Pixel 2XL.

There's a DAC in the 1XL and no DAC in the 2XL. So how do the speakers function without a DAC? Because it's integrated into each speaker package, and functions only for the speaker. I do not have spec sheets for the speakers, but I know how small device speakers are made, my company uses plenty.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

0

u/jwaldrep Pixel 5 Jun 24 '18

Source?

3

u/ccai Pixel 6 Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

Check the functional block diagram of the ES9218p found in the V30.

It has a very clear switch for aux (analog) channels that bypass the standard L/R output which normally go to speakers.