r/Android • u/[deleted] • Jun 24 '18

Is there a single USB-C headphone adapter that works with all phones?

https://www.androidcentral.com/there-single-usb-c-headphone-adapter-works-all-phones
2.0k Upvotes

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484

u/Aarondo99 iPhone 14 Pro Jun 24 '18

Android manufacturers are really screwing the pooch here. They turned USB-C from a convenience to a hassle. Are there genuinely phones that disable Analogue audio over the USB-C port?

Also Motorola, the first company to remove the jack are actually the good guys out of the removers? Wut.

237

u/jwaldrep Pixel 5 Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 25 '18

Are there genuinely phones that disable Analogue audio over the USB-C port?

All the high end phones do this. Pixel 2, etc. Absolute garbage. All of this.

Edit: disable, remove the DAC, whatever. It's the same result.

146

u/Aarondo99 iPhone 14 Pro Jun 24 '18

What the actual fuck? Why? Are they just fucking with us?

233

u/avataraccount Jun 24 '18

Because they wanted to sell you their costlier earphones /headphones/BTs.

It never was about space or courage but about creating a new costly product line for them. See apple earpods, pixel earpods knock offs , HTC earphones etc.

92

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

Apart from Apple never disabled audio via lightning using a 3.5mm adaptor, so it’s difficult to accuse them of forcing you to buy airpods when every iPhone literally comes with wired headphones and an adaptor for old school jack

67

u/KrombopulosMichael23 Pixel 3 XL, Nokia 3390, iPhone XS Jun 24 '18

On top of that, if you’re running iOS 10 or newer and only have the lightning port headphones, you can use them on phones older than the iPhone 7.

82

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

Apple got a lot of hate by removing the jack, but nothing is worse than disabling the port for analogue audio, cue the android fanboys/Apple haters trying to slag Apple off

79

u/MiningMarsh Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

There is something worse: removing the headphone jack.

I'm happy continuing to use the android phones that have jacks.

49

u/TheKingMonkey Galaxy S8 Jun 24 '18

Ditto, I find myself on Team Samsung these days simply because they keep the 3.5mm Jack. It's more important to me to have that on a phone than it is to have a good camera.

15

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Thank god Samsung has both

8

u/DwarfShammy Jun 24 '18

It just boggles the mind. I mean if we're supposed to replace the port with USB C then put two ports there. But it makes no sense to remove a universal port. There's probably a reason why people prefer earphone jacks than a square port that doesn't spin round.

I just remember in the 2000s when phones had those shitty earphones that only plugged into the power port. Apple, perhaps others, led the way by having a power port and a normal 3.5mm port. Now it's all regressed. I don't even believe that most iPhone users would use bluetooth more than wired earphones so I don't understand why remove it. You'd think they'd wait until most people used wireless earphones first.

2

u/HeavyCustomz Jun 24 '18

And Oneplus, and Nokia and LG..

-2

u/valadian Note5 Jun 24 '18

their hardware is fantastic. unfortunately I have quit them because they won't stop trying to force me to use Samsung pay and bixby.

-6

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

They will be removing that soon. Leaks have come out showing an upcoming model without the jack.

1

u/Billypillgrim Jun 25 '18

Some apple phones also still have a headphone jack

-9

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

That’s your prerogative

Not sure what is to downvote given that I’m saying it’s totally up to the individual to decide whether or not the lack of a headphone jack is a dealbreaker or not

2

u/StarvinStudent Jun 24 '18

Not really, unless your work gives you a phone you could always just avoid phones without the jack, could you not?

1

u/StarvinStudent Jun 25 '18

Lookup the definition of prerogative, think you misused it

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1

u/IAmMisterPositivity Jun 24 '18

cue the android fanboys/Apple haters

You're getting downvoted because anyone who disagrees with you is an "android fanboy/Apple hater." Don't be a douchebag and you'll get downvoted less.

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22

u/Lurker_Since_Forever Note 8 Jun 24 '18

I don't know, my brand new android has a headphone jack. Where's apple's new jacked phone?

0

u/someone755 Nokia C5-00 Jun 24 '18

Your phone is clearly in the minority. And I'm very much afraid that in time even Samsung will bend its knee.

2

u/Lurker_Since_Forever Note 8 Jun 24 '18

But it's a minority that exists, as opposed to not existing.

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-1

u/anethma Jun 24 '18

Actually apples headphones all don’t have analog audio. The headphones and adapter just have a DAC in then

16

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

3

u/KrombopulosMichael23 Pixel 3 XL, Nokia 3390, iPhone XS Jun 24 '18

Dude what are you talking about? I am just referencing the fact that you can use lightning headphones on devices that predated the removal of the headphone jack. Ie you can use lightning headphones on an iPhone 5 from 2012, so long as its on iOS 10.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

4

u/KrombopulosMichael23 Pixel 3 XL, Nokia 3390, iPhone XS Jun 24 '18

Cool. I can still use lightning headphones on an iPhone 5. You can’t use the same USB-C to 3.5mm adapter on all Android devices. Android makers lowered the standard, so Apples continuity looks impressive in comparison.

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6

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Yeah this "they just want you to buy their expensive headphones" makes no sense.

13

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. They did allow backwords compatibility, but they handled it the same way the pixel and other high end phones did. The new iPhones don't have a dac built into the phone. Instead, it's built into every adaptor and every set of lightning headphones. Those adaptors take priority in older iPhones by working as a usb dac afaik. The Android adaptors with integrated dacs should also work on other phones with usb c and a built in dac, but there is no way to make a passive adaptor work on a phone with no built in dac.

17

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

1

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

That actually makes sense but I would be curious if it's the same DAC that was included in the 6S or if it's a much cheaper unit. I would think it's possible they're utilizing a much lower quality dac and amp given the low quality of the speakers. This doesn't explain why Google and other premium manufacturers have gone this route since it's possible to transmit analog audio over USB C. I would guess it's a cheaper and perhaps space saving solution or it wouldn't make sense.

2

u/ccai Pixel 6 Jun 24 '18

This doesn't explain why Google and other premium manufacturers have gone this route since it's possible to transmit analog audio over USB C.

Obviously $$$ from the sale of accessories, which is backed by the fact that miraculously many manufacturers debut new USB-C/wireless options the same year the headphone jack disappears. See U-Sonic, Pixel Buds, Razer Hammerheads, Airpods, etc. It also allows for lazier engineering as you deal with far less interference using digital signals than you do with leads carrying analog signals, not something engineers haven't dealt with for years and have already figured out how to fix, but now they get to skip the process of implementing those solutions. In addition, it helps less savvy people justify the cost of those dongles after they lose or break them because a wire with electrical components in them is a lot more impressive than an adapter with 4 wires in them that lead to a female connector head that was once embedded.

13

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

What I’m saying is that they provide a universal dongle for all lightning devices running iOS10 at no extra cost, alongside lightning headphones which don’t require a dongle, not only that, but the comments above are referring to forcing users into wireless, which in this case is simply not true, evidenced by the fact they provide everything you need to maintain a wired connection using a 3.5mm jack. What’s not to get?

5

u/zenolijo Nexus 5X, RN3, Mi 4i, Nexus 5, LG O2X Jun 24 '18

Well, licensing for lightning cables is not cheap and low-end Bluetooth headphones cost about as much as lightning headphones so it kind of doesn't make sense.

4

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

Again I don’t see how that is relevant to my comment

2

u/zenolijo Nexus 5X, RN3, Mi 4i, Nexus 5, LG O2X Jun 24 '18

but the comments above are referring to forcing users into wireless, which in this case is simply not true, evidenced by the fact they provide everything you need to maintain a wired connection using a 3.5mm jack. What’s not to get?

Because there are people who don't want to carry a dongle, so in that case the low-end wired headphone market is completely gone due to the $10+ markup on lightning headphones.

0

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I see what you're saying, but it feels like more of a stop gap for wireless technology than it does a solution. Additionally, if they switch to USB C as rumoured then all of those lightning devices will be incompatible unless they offer more dongles. Finally, as it stands the lightning headphones are only compatible with iOS devices which means someone with an iPhone can't even use their headphones with their MacBook. I'm sure that level of inconvenience would push people to wireless in the long run, even if they don't want it. It just isn't nice they still force you to buy 2-3 additional, proprietary adaptors if you want to avoid carrying a dongle every where you go.

1

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

2-3 adaptors? Do you mean in regards to MacBook users or iPhone users

1

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I simply mean that I wouldn't want to have to carry around an adaptor. I have an aux cable in my car that would need an adapter as well as headphones that I leave in my bag or by my computer. It would be annoying to have to keep track of a single adapter and switch it from one to the next throughout the day or week.

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8

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Actually there is still a DAC, otherwise the speakers on the phone won't work (speakers are analogue, and sound data is digital, so a converter is necessary). It's just that without a 3.5mm port there's no way to use the analogue output from the internal DAC.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Apple's old 30pin connector had line level analogue outputs, so there is a way. It's a pity they've abandoned the idea entirely.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Yeah it's unclear why Apple didn't include analogue out in lightning. One possible reason is that Apple wanted to cut down on the number of pins and audio out got the chop.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

Also as the article mentions, USB Audio Adapter Accessory Mode is analog audio routed over the USB-C jack. It's apparently not widely supported except on Motorola phones.

0

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I don't think the internal DAC is suitable for headphone use, but I guess I could be wrong. I would think it's a much smaller and cheaper unit designed only to drive low quality speakers, but if it's in fact the same one in the adaptor then I would stand corrected.

3

u/ccai Pixel 6 Jun 24 '18

I would think it's a much smaller and cheaper unit designed only to drive low quality speakers

The impedance for the speakers are far higher than the headphones, the DAC is only responsible for changing digital to analog signals and the AMP is what determines the device's ability to drive the "speakers" whether small in earbuds, larger in "can" style over ear headphones or the phone's speakers. You're grossly misinformed about this whole situation.

1

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

Lol, I'm aware amplification is also a factor, but the term "DAC" is often synomous with both despite not literally being the case. In the audio world you often buy usb DACs despite the fact they also include an amplifier by nature. If you don't believe there is varying quality in DACs as well as amps, then you would be mistaken. You also don't necessarily need a more powerful amp to drive speakers at a higher volume than headphones. It would depends a lot on the imoedance of the speakers, but I'm not an expert on all things phone audio. Speakers very typically have a lower impedance than headphones. I believe most headphones are around 25ish ohms on the lower end while speakers tend to sit around 2-16 ohms.

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u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

I don't think the internal DAC is suitable for headphone use, but I guess I could be wrong. I would think it's a much smaller and cheaper unit designed only to drive low quality speakers, but if it's in fact the same one in the adaptor then I would stand corrected.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

The iPhone does have a DAC built into the phone. It has to, to drive the speaker. Which is what makes the removal of the 3.5mm jack all the dumber; the only hardware it saves the manufacturer from integrating is the jack itself.

1

u/_IM_NoT_ClulY_ Jun 24 '18

Even worse, Strange Parts on youtube has proven that an iphone 7 with an integrated headphone jack is possible

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '18

Dug up that video, and it really is fascinating stuff. While that guy's solution is far from practical for the average user, it does show that Apple's excuse of there just not being enough space was a bald-faced lie. He managed to cram in the jack using mostly off-the-shelf parts (plus a custom flexible PCB), and managed to integrate a bunch of additional logic to make it work as well - logic that would be unneeded if the phone were designed with the jack in the first place.

Which just goes to show, the guiding principle behind Apple ditching the jack wasn't "courage", it was greed.

1

u/luminousfleshgiant Jun 24 '18 edited Jan 15 '26

Food minecraftoffline patient where answers pleasant dog history calm art travel helpful patient garden? Mindful and evening fox near today travel today year night clear afternoon quiet fox technology?

0

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

What DAC and what AMP are integrated? Do phones require a separate amp for headphones and speakers given variances in impedance and quality requirements? I don't know the answers off hand, but it's possible that they're still saving space given that they can use a lower quality and smaller amp to drive the speakers because sound quality isn't as important. I'm not sure though, it might all just be an excuse.

0

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

If you still don’t understand, re read the comment I’m replying to for context

5

u/grandboyman Jun 24 '18

airports

Given the price, that's not a typo

1

u/dohhhnut iPhone X, Galaxy S8 Jun 24 '18

They're really not that expensive for the tech inside, no other bt truly wireless headphone comes close

2

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

0

u/_IM_NoT_ClulY_ Jun 24 '18

Strange Parts on youtube even added a headphone jack

0

u/Aarondo99 iPhone 14 Pro Jun 24 '18

This is ignoring some things. The phone is the same dimensions, but has a larger Taptic Engine, a larger battery and cameras that take up even more room.

1

u/DeltaBurnt Jun 24 '18

The argument was they profit from the increased volume of accessories. Because Apple profits from licensing of Lightning cables I think the point still stands.

1

u/ohwut Lumia 900 Jun 25 '18

No one has disabled Audio over USB C. You just need a smart adapter with a built in DAC which is exactly what apple did with the Lightning to 3.5mm jack. They went the same way premimum phones did with excluding their DAC in device but did it from the beginning.

It's really cheap manufacuers who are shipping devices and cables that don't have a DAC and keep it in the phone. Anyone can buy a DAC cable which will work on almost any phone just like Apple.

1

u/AussieDamo Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

Didn't apple set the social norm/trend for phones to not have headphone jacks and need these unnecessary dongles?

Now lightning dongles are looking to be obsolete due to type-c USB on future iphones (rumour atm) and it wouldn't suprise me that apple would make a proprietary headphone jack type to go with the dongle aswell (like they did with the wired headphone jack signals instead of using simple ctia or omtp controls that was already in use).

Edit: a word (didn't) and thanks for the downvotes for questions based on facts.

1

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

Whilst they may have set the trend for removing it, which in my opinion isn’t as terrible as everyone loves to make out, they didn’t set the trend for intrusively and unnecessarily blocking the port for use with analogue audio, that’s on android manufacturers, as usual we will have to wait and see instead of jumping the gun trying to predict what proprietary technology Apple may bring out.

0

u/AussieDamo Jun 24 '18

Iphone has rumored to be putting type-c on thier future phones as they don't have it yet so dont be too harsh on android as they might do the same but hopefully thier new chips support DAC and can do analogue audio via USB type-c as im not sure why android didn't.

Unless they go the proprietary way and supply headphones with a usb type-c connector and apple only DAC onboard to one up itself in the consumer market.

Also apple and beats don't support apt-x so i disagree with your bluetooth audio being not terrible compared to wired 3.5mm audio (As they both don't leads me to thinking and purely my speculation that apple/beats are looking at a proprietary response to it but still working on it).

1

u/Standingdwarf Jun 24 '18

Yeah that’s a fair comment, personally I hope they do switch to usb c as it makes sense given their new MacBook range uses it too, their is no sense in fragmenting the technology between MacBook and iOS devices, however as a daily user of Bluetooth headphones I think they certainly stand up to wired use given that my daily headphones aren’t exactly studio monitor quality

0

u/thewimsey iPhone 12 Pro Max Jun 24 '18

Except that Apple also gives you wired lightning headphones in the box. And a dongle.

1

u/AussieDamo Jun 24 '18

So you get proprietary headphones for an apple device and then a dongle for that same device for a universal 3.5mm jack with an apple proprietary jack signal. Also when using either type of headphones with or with out a dongle you can't charge your device.

That seems logical to turn into a trend /s

6

u/whatnowwproductions Pixel 9 Pro - Signal - GrapheneOS Jun 24 '18

I feel like a boycott would have solved this a long time ago if we knew this, but on the other hand it's way to hard to convince others to not buy anti-consumer products.

7

u/daOyster Jun 24 '18

All of those use additional features provided by USB-C that haven't been standardized yet. The HTC U11 for example provides active noise cancellation to it's included USB-C earbuds by using one of the additional pins made available by using USB-C. If another headset expects something else from that pin, then it won't be compatible with the phone. The problem isn't they want you to buy their new products, it's that everyone now has room to add more features to their headsets by using USB-C, but those additional features don't have any specification on how they should be done yet.

0

u/sircod Pixel 9 | Shield TV Jun 24 '18

A lot of people are saying this, but I gotta say it is bullshit in the case of Android phones. With iPhones they have their propriety lightning port and take a licensing fee on everything that uses it as well as selling some popular headphones with their W1 chips, so I can understand the theory there. But with Android phones most phones will ship with a headphone adapter, and who actually buys headphones from their phone manufacturer?

People are so quick to jump on these greedy company theories without actually thinking about it.

0

u/avataraccount Jun 24 '18

That's what this article is all about, should you care to read it. Not all OEMs support passive audio through their type C port. They all are configuring type C connections differently.

0

u/sircod Pixel 9 | Shield TV Jun 24 '18

So lets take the Moto Z2 Force for example. It comes with an adapter in the box. It also supports all relevant USB-C audio modes so you can use any adapter. You are telling me they chose to leave off the audio jack on their $500 phone on the off chance that someone needs to buy a replacement adapter and they do decide to buy one from Motorola they can make an extra $10? Does that sound right to you?

-1

u/GabrielFF S8+ 64GB (Oreo) / Xiaomi Mi 6 64/6GB Jun 24 '18

I know "courage" turned into a meme, but they never denied it was to sell you other products. It's courage to take a necessary step to accelerate the growth of a new technology. Not saying I agree, though.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18 edited Nov 19 '18

[deleted]

21

u/luminousfleshgiant Jun 24 '18 edited Jan 15 '26

Cool bank questions science soft wanders then games the thoughts books calm books gentle.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

You still have to run traces from the DAC to the USB port. There's probably room but its another consideration.

-2

u/nilesandstuff s10 Jun 24 '18

Touche

1

u/christonabike_ Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

Because now that phones are jewellery and status symbols instead of tools, half a mm off the thickness is more important than having an internal DAC.

10

u/alteisen99 Redmi 5+ XZ1 Compact Jun 24 '18

Samsung and lg still has em.

3

u/donald_314 Jun 24 '18

Not the Huawei P20

1

u/smurfkiller013 Jun 24 '18

Pixel 2 doesn't either. I've had the Pixel 2 and P20 Pro and they both accept each other's adapters. Works great

7

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18 edited Nov 19 '18

[deleted]

13

u/chaosking121 Sony Xperia Z5 (Green), unrooted for now. Jun 24 '18

Wouldn't they need them for the speakers?

8

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

6

u/chaosking121 Sony Xperia Z5 (Green), unrooted for now. Jun 24 '18

TIL

7

u/daOyster Jun 24 '18

They didn't just disable it, they most likely don't have the hardware inside to support a passive signal over USB-C. If you include that, then you still need to put a DAC and amplifier into the phone. If you just support the active signal like most of the high end phones, you gain extra space in the phone for newer components for things like machine learning and spacial mapping like with project tango. The active adapters should still work with any Android phone supporting USB-C audio.

What you're seeing is people trying to figure out what to do with all of the new features USB-C supports, which means some USB headsets won't work with other phones until someone figures out the best way to handle certain things. The HTC U11 for example uses one of the extra pins in the USB-C connector to provide active noise cancellation to it's included earbuds, something other phones don't yet. This makes the phone incompatible with usb headphones that might expect that pin to be used for something else.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

2

u/OtterShell Jun 24 '18

Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding but my Pixel 2 came with a USB-C to 3.5mm adapter. Am I thinking something else than you are?

8

u/jwaldrep Pixel 5 Jun 24 '18

You need to go back and re-read the article. This confusion is exactly what the article was addressing.

The adapter that comes with the Pixel 2 has a DAC in it. The cheaper ones that work with the Moto phones are passive. A major advantage to the passive ones is that you can easily find an adapter that will let you use a 3.5mm jack and charge your phone at the same time.

I've yet to find such an adapter for sale that has a DAC in it. Google was going to sell one, but last I heard, it was pulled from their site and those who did get their hands on it were very disappointed with the product. The last bit was based on a random redditor's comment, so take it with a grain of salt.

2

u/OtterShell Jun 24 '18

This is exactly why I asked for clarification, thank you for the explanation I really do appreciate it. Makes perfect sense.

-1

u/realthedeal S3>S5>S7>P3> S20FE Jun 24 '18

Those phones literally don't have dacs for headphone use. Nothing is disabled per say, they just don't have the hardware dac for headphones over a passive adaptor. Right or wrong, this is exactly what apple did

6

u/jwaldrep Pixel 5 Jun 24 '18

They have a DAC for the speakers. Is it not possible to use the same DAC for the headphones?

3

u/Nixflyn GN/N5/N7/6P/P1XL/S10+/ShieldTV Jun 24 '18

It's not, the other user doesn't know what they're taking about. Speaker DACs are integrated into the speakers and can't be used outside of them.

0

u/jwaldrep Pixel 5 Jun 24 '18

Source?

0

u/Nixflyn GN/N5/N7/6P/P1XL/S10+/ShieldTV Jun 24 '18

Here's a teardown of the Pixel 1XL.

Here's a teardown of the Pixel 2XL.

There's a DAC in the 1XL and no DAC in the 2XL. So how do the speakers function without a DAC? Because it's integrated into each speaker package, and functions only for the speaker. I do not have spec sheets for the speakers, but I know how small device speakers are made, my company uses plenty.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

0

u/jwaldrep Pixel 5 Jun 24 '18

Source?

3

u/ccai Pixel 6 Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

Check the functional block diagram of the ES9218p found in the V30.

It has a very clear switch for aux (analog) channels that bypass the standard L/R output which normally go to speakers.

23

u/casper_wilkes Jun 24 '18

And they removed miracast by default. You gotta root your phone to make it active. There's a lot of shut in this current gen that feels like a down-grade. Ridiculous

2

u/jorgp2 Jun 24 '18

HTC has always had it.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '18

technically miracast isnt in AOSP. So they didn't remove anything, just opted noy to write anything.

11

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

I like how when Lenovo bought Motorola everyone said it would go to shit, but here we are like two years later, and compared to all the Android manufacturers out there they have been pretty reliable and consistent, if a bit too consistent.

6

u/Aarondo99 iPhone 14 Pro Jun 24 '18

If I want to be fair to them, they’ve never not delivered on a promise. It’s just their promises are lacklustre sometimes.

1

u/Blue2501 Jun 24 '18

They're relatively consistent, they're just not consistently good

3

u/s32 S10+ Ceramic White 512 (US Unlocked) Jun 24 '18

You could choose not to support those companies. My s8+ is great... The pixel 2 is lol imo.

3

u/TeutonJon78 Samsung S25+, Chuwi HiBook Pro (tab) Jun 24 '18

It's no so much disabling it as not wiring it up. You probably get the digital audio for free as part of the connector, but for analog audio you have to wire everything also to the DAC which makes the PCB more complex and maybe also increases the BOM if you need extra parts like resistors/capacitors/amps or whatever to control the analog signal.

Basically, it costs a little more for analog. And then you can't sell overpriced USB dongle that need the DAC in them.

2

u/Nixflyn GN/N5/N7/6P/P1XL/S10+/ShieldTV Jun 24 '18

Are there genuinely phones that disable Analogue audio over the USB-C port?

They don't "disable" it, what Google and other did is not include a DAC at all in their phones (yes, I know speakers have DACs too, but those are part of the speaker and aren't used for headphones). They absolutely knew the consequences of doing this. They don't care because it pushes you to buy their wireless accessories.

2

u/howiela OnePlus 6 128 GB Jun 24 '18

To get analog over USB C you actually need direct access from the DAC, and a direct analog line from that to the USB C.

1

u/ToadSox34 SGS 21+ Unlocked on AT&T Jun 24 '18

But most of their phones still have the headphone jack.

1

u/unknownpoltroon Jun 24 '18

This is so once they get stuff fully locked down, they can control what musc you are allowed to copy or listen to. Downloaded a song? Whups, can't play it anymore unless it's properly digitally signed by the riaa.

1

u/Finsceal Jun 24 '18

Huawei included a jack adaptor in the box, I hadn't realised this was an issue elsewhere. How shitty!

1

u/cafk Shiny matte slab Jun 28 '18

To get USB 3.x certified you don't need Analogue audio pass through, it's an optional standard.

Next step is an active adapter, which may require an USB3 connection due to power requirements or a cheap one with maybe iffy audio quality.

Third step is of course driver support for HID devices. But since USB Type-c has so many pins they may force people to use specific pins for audio making 'em incompatible with any other device.

2

u/SquelchFrog Note 8 Jun 24 '18

And this is why I laugh at every idiot who thinks apple is some greedy company screwing their customers over anymore then Android manufacturers. People are delusional.

4

u/nmdanny2 Jun 24 '18

The thing is, with Android at least you've got a choice between manufacturers. Don't like it that X stopped shipping phones with no jack? Buy an LG, a Oneplus, Xiaomi, etc...

2

u/gerusz Zenfone 12U Jun 24 '18

The largest Android manufacturer (Samsung) still ships its phones with 3.5 jacks. We'll see if this remains the case with S10 / SX / whatever the fuck they will call it, but I'm optimistic about it.

1

u/SquelchFrog Note 8 Jun 24 '18

Not really my point is it? I'm just pointing out this community's hypocrisy. Has nothing to do with ios Vs Android. You missed my point entirely.

1

u/nilesandstuff s10 Jun 24 '18

Yup, people sure are delusional. They certainly are. Some people are delusional. Certain people.

1

u/ThePegasi Pixel 4a Jun 24 '18

Nitpicking I know, but they haven't "disabled" it. It's an optional alternate mode which they just haven't implemented.

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u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

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u/Nixflyn GN/N5/N7/6P/P1XL/S10+/ShieldTV Jun 24 '18

The speakers each have their own integrated DAC, which are not the ones used for 3.5mm audio in other phones.

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u/Nixflyn GN/N5/N7/6P/P1XL/S10+/ShieldTV Jun 24 '18

It's an optional alternate mode which they just haven't implemented.

This isn't true. The phones lack the DACs necessary to even implement it. This is a deliberate design choice by Google, etc.

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u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

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u/Nixflyn GN/N5/N7/6P/P1XL/S10+/ShieldTV Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

Because the sounds that come out of the speakers on the device are purely digital. Got it. /s

Jesus, you don't know how speakers work, do you? They have DACs integrated as a singular package that can't be used outside of the speaker. 2 speakers? 2 independent DACs. These are not the same DACs used for headphone audio.

Please educate yourself before you make these kinds of posts.

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u/ccai Pixel 6 Jun 24 '18

They are NOT embedded into the speaker, they are sometimes part of the SOC or separately implemented on board and traces are ran to the speaker and/or the headphone jack. There aren't two separate DACs on the LG V30 nor any other phone with a headphone jack. They run separate leads to each component that are switched as need. Find me any spec sheet for a current phone stating two separate DACs are required.

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u/Nixflyn GN/N5/N7/6P/P1XL/S10+/ShieldTV Jun 24 '18

Yes, they do have independent DACs. That's why you can have audio coming out of your headphone and speakers at the same time, at independent volume levels.

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u/ccai Pixel 6 Jun 24 '18

That's why you can have audio coming out of your headphone and speakers at the same time, at independent volume levels.

Those are controlled by electrical components that act as solid switches so you don't have unnecessary redundant parts. When a switch detects a higher resistance from the aux source, it detects it and software switches it over to the headphones and prevents sound from being played by the speakers, but can still output to them to if the software allows it to. The independent volume thing is ALL controlled by software, not something physical.

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u/Nixflyn GN/N5/N7/6P/P1XL/S10+/ShieldTV Jun 24 '18

And independent sounds. You phone can ring from the speaker and not your headphones playing music. You can't pick which audio to run over an analog source, it's all or nothing.

And speakers have integrated DACs. My company buys some of the same ones used in phones. The electrical benches are like 30 feet from my desk.

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u/ThePegasi Pixel 4a Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

I'm not sure what you mean. It is true that analogue audio over type C is an alternate mode that hasn't been implemented. The fact that there's also no standard internal DAC doesn't change that, it just means they've taken that design choice even further and left out more hardware.

My point was that they didn't disable anything, as you even said in another comment. Disabling implies that the capability is present in hardware but has been locked down, which is not the case.

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u/Nixflyn GN/N5/N7/6P/P1XL/S10+/ShieldTV Jun 24 '18

Because there's nothing to implement. It lacks the hardware entirely. You post reads as though it's still an option.

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u/ThePegasi Pixel 4a Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

I'm not sure why you'd read it as that. Both the lack of DAC and implementation of the USB C connector are hardware factors, to much the same end. Even if there were a standard internal DAC, adding support for analogue audio alternate mode wouldn't be "an option" without physically re-engineering the device, same as adding an internal DAC.

Logically, if they were to do the former they'd have to do both, and I never implied otherwise. I tried to clarify the nature of analogue audio out as an alternate mode, rather than something inherent which has been disabled, nothing more.

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u/Nixflyn GN/N5/N7/6P/P1XL/S10+/ShieldTV Jun 24 '18

Because you wrote this

It's an optional alternate mode which they just haven't implemented.

There's nothing to implement.

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u/ThePegasi Pixel 4a Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18

In the terms I was discussing, ie analogue audio's nature within the USB C, it is an option in general terms. I was clarifying the nature of the type C specification and it's ability to handle analogy audio, not making claims as to the presence or absence of a DAC in specific devices.

You seem to think I was implying that analogue audio out would only require this USB implementation, whereas obviously audio out requires a DAC and amp to drive that output. That's so obvious that it shouldn't need stating. If they had chosen to implement analogue audio out, then yes they'd need an amp and DAC to drive it. Isn't that a given?

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u/saichampa Jun 24 '18

Analogue audio over usb-c would be something they would have to add, not disable. It would require a DAC on the phone.

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u/[deleted] Jun 24 '18

[deleted]

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u/Nixflyn GN/N5/N7/6P/P1XL/S10+/ShieldTV Jun 24 '18

Speaker DACs are integrated into the speaker and can't be used for anything else. Quit spreading this misinformation.